Talk:Lawrence Oates/Archive 1

Comment
I believe it's "Lawrence Oates" rather than "Laurence Oates". A google search seemed to confirm many more hits for "Lawrence" and Huntford in "The Last Place on Earth" spells it Lawrence.No Guru 07:47, 19 Feb 2004 (UTC)

I think the quote is "I am just going outside and may be some time."

from Scott's Last Expedition by Robert Falcon Scott:

Friday, March 16, or Saturday, 17 [1912]. Lost track of dates, but think the last correct. Tragedy all down the line. At lunch, the day before yesterday, poor Titus Oates said he couldn't go on; he proposed we should leave him in his sleeping bag. That we could not do, and we induced him to come on, on the afternoon march. In spite of its awful nature for him he struggled on and we made a few miles. At night he was worse and we knew the end had come.

Should this be found I want these facts recorded ... We can testify to his bravery. He has borne intense suffering for weeks without complaint, and to the very last was able and willing to discuss outside subjects. He did not--would not--give up hope till the very end ... He slept through the night before last, hoping not to wake; but he woke in the morning--yesterday. It was blowing a blizzard. He said, "I am just going outside and may be some time." He went out into the blizzard and we have not seen him since ... We knew that poor Oates was walking to his death, but though we tried to dissuade him, we knew it was the act of a brave man and an English gentleman. We all hope to meet the end with a similar spirit, and assuredly the end is not far. Mark Richards 18:43, 14 May 2004 (UTC)


 * BTW where does the monacre 'Titus' come from? Mark Richards 18:43, 14 May 2004 (UTC)


 * "Monacre"? I like it, although it's usually rendered "monicker".  :) --   Jack of Oz    ... speak! ...   11:31, 17 March 2010 (UTC)

Who Titus Oates?
Titus Oates Infamous figure in Britain's history of patriotism and the National Good. Plutonium27 13:58, 16 June 2007 (UTC)

A poignant story. Ground 03:02, 25 Dec 2004 (UTC)

I've removed the claims that Oates was a last-minute addition to the polar party, and that he was less experienced than the others. It was Henry Robertson Bowers who was the last-minute addition to the party, and Bowers (who was an officer in the Indian Navy) had no more polar experience than Oates did before joining Scott's expedition. Dr.frog 23:33, 24 July 2005 (UTC) ---

The photo in this article is of Dr Wilson - Oates is at the far left in the famous South Pole Photo. Recommend you also include the play "Terra Nova" by Ted Talley.

I would point out that the major reason why Oates should NOT have been in the polar party was due to a serious gun shot wound he had sustained in the British Army in Africa I believe, and that is ultimately why he could no longer march, the scurvy flared up badly in that old gun shot scar and immobilized Oates, who had to be dragged for several days prior to his suicide. Also, was it noted yet that his body was never found? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.146.37.39 (talk) 04:14, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

A bad mistake
How come both Scott and Oates died on March 17th,if we know that Oates died days before rest of them.Thats the whole point of his sacrifaceDzoni 04:57, 16 April 2006 (UTC)

I would agree, but also would point out that toward the end I don't think any of the final 4 knew what day it was precisely and the evidence of the ordeal is derived from journals (mostly Captain Scott's). However, it is indeed clear that Oates dies at least a few days before the rest. The book "scott and amundsen" or "last place on earth" (latter was the new name of former) would clarify this.

And at least according to the movie (I read the book too, but paid more attention to amundsen in the book lol) Titus Oates claims it is his birthday on the day he crawls out of the tent. Now the movie is very accurate to the book (roland huntford), and I bet it's reliable on this fact. Oates believes it's his birthday based on Scott's guess at what day it is. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.146.37.39 (talk) 04:03, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

The Picture
There seems to be some discussion as to exactly who this is a picture of, a search of the web doesn't show anything conclusive, can anybody help?Mumby 19:16, 7 September 2006 (UTC) If the story about him being a pervert is true who cares when he died. Surely the world was well rid of him. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 213.123.248.95 (talk • contribs).

Death date correction?
As the entry from Scott's journal quoted here notes, Oates actually died on March 15 or 16, not on his birthday (Scott says it happened "yesterday" and that he's writing on the 16th or the 17th); the legend of the birthday death appeared inThe Last Place on Earth, but the record doesn't bear it out. Stevenso9 02:36, 17 August 2007 (UTC)


 * The only record of Oates' death comes from Scott's diary. That seems to be a bit unclear and seems to be interpretable in two ways. The sources usually say March 17, some people read the diary and say March 16, but I haven't found any published sources, so that could be Original research. I haven't reverted to March 17 but it would be interesting if anyone could find a statement that March 16 was the correct date from a good reading of the Diary. Dabbler (talk) 11:25, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

what about Meares?
I have noticed no mention of Cecil Meares in either Oates' or Captain Scott's page. This is a shame as Oates and Meares became close on the expedition and saw eye to eye on many things, notably Captain Scott's incompetence. This is also logical as Oates was the Horse man and Meares was the Dog handler. A section on Cecil Meares should be created and connected to this page on Oates. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.146.37.39 (talk) 04:06, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cecil_Meares appears to be a small page on Meares but the connection to Oates is very important.

Also, on Oates page, it should be noted that had his advice been heeded, the entire polar party would have surely survived. The whole tragedy revolves around "One Ton Depot" and because of suffering ponies, Scott decided to turn around and leave the supplies 10 miles further from the pole than had been planned. They died about 6 miles from that very depot if I recall. Again, as far as the Terra Nova expedition goes, the best and most respected reference is that of "The Last Place on Earth" by Huntford, briefly referenced so far. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.146.37.39 (talk) 04:12, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

"Walked to his death"???/
I'm not sure who wrote that but they cannot have known much about the return of the polar party.... Oates was not able to walk for several days prior to his suicide. There is no possible way he walked to his death, it had to be more of a painful crawl. The scurvy in his leg had about turned it inside out (left leg) and his feet were so frostbit they were useless. He had not walked for several days and had not been able to. That is precisely why he was useless and commit suicide, so this claim that he "walked" to his death, wasn't thoughtful enough :)
 * It's a quote of the inscription, so it's not appropriate to change that, regardless...Someguy1221 (talk) 04:19, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

Family background
As far as I know Lawrence Oates had three siblings, an older sister, Lilian, a younger sister, Violet, and a younger brother whose name I dont remember (Bryan?). The Census cited here dates from 1881 and therefore may not include the younger sister and brother. I dont have the literature at hand, but in order to check this you could consult e.g. Michael Smith' ´biography of the Soldier, "I am just going outside" from 2002. Best regards, Dr Jostmann --188.23.43.41 (talk) 16:23, 3 August 2010 (UTC)

Split Enz song "Titus"
"The Split Enz song Titus presents a stream of consciousness narrative with the singer in the role of Oates, which presumably takes place after Oates has left Scott's tent for the last time. Oates is a presented as a sacrificed pawn in a game he doesn't understand; hints of "silver dreams" and "losing my way" allude to his impending fate."

Huh? Sez who? Look up the lyrics. I don't see it at all.