Talk:Layla and Majnun

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This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 4 September 2018 and 19 December 2018. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): DoaaJabir.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 02:19, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

A note concerning the reference to occult literature
I didn't explain about it too much because it would be a deviation from the subject, but for justification of the reference that I added ,the name Laylah is used in modern occult literature in connection with the concept of Scarlet Woman created by Aleister Crowley the spelling used seems a deliberate one to suggest both a reference to Leyli and the words for night in Arabic/Hebrew.Here is a reference which reads "This now introduces the principal character of this book, Laylah, who is the ultimate feminine symbol, to be interpreted on all planes.But in this chapter, little hint is given of anything beyond physical love...because Laylah is the one object of devotion to which the author ever turns.Note the introduction of the name of the Beloved in acrostic in line 15." the source of this quote.Pasha Abd 05:05, 16 October 2005 (UTC)

It issometimes cited by Sufis to explain somethong (concerning (strength of ?) love). --219.110.233.130 (talk) 11:23, 3 November 2008 (UTC)

This story is a persian story and not an arab story. People, get your story right. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Atirna81 (talk • contribs) 19:02, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

(Comments moved from Talk:Leily and Majnoun)
What's with the spelling? Do Persians call her "Leyli", or is this just a misreading of ليلى which should be "Layla"? - Mustafaa 17:53, 9 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Leyli, Leyla, Layla, Laila, Majnun, Majnoun... I have seen the names spelled many ways. I am not sure which is the preferred. If you have any information about this story or a copy of the Persian text and any insight into it feel free to change the page, etc. If youwant to make this a redirect to Layla and Majnun that would work as well. -gren

Well, I don't know anything about the Persian version, only the Arabic one; but the Arabic story, called Layla and Majnun, is a major medieval romance. - Mustafaa 23:20, 9 Dec 2004 (UTC)

It's all from the basis and this page isn't only for Nizami's version. I only mentioned that he penned it because that's what I knew. So if you can add more about the story in general that would be good. I just read [this] about it but it but I don't think gives me suitable knowledge to write about it. Regarding the meaning of Layla... I just think you are right. I used [this] link for much of my information. Sorry for what I got wrong and thanks for fixing it. -gren

I'm pretty sure that the spelling is Leyli...in any case, that's how we pronounce it (we being Persians). I don't know about the other versions... -Zhaneel

Images
http://www.asia.si.edu/exhibitions/past.htm# -- if you go to the section and then click on the link the Smithsonian has a flash thing with some images. Interesting looking and possibly a source for a good non-modern (free copyright) photo. gren グレン 09:01, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

Regarding the spelling of Leyla/Leyli. In Arabic Leyla is spelling with a 'ye' at the end, but it has an implied 'alif' often written as a superscript in vocalized text. Hence the correct Arabic pronunciation is Leyla. In Persian it has become traditional to pronounce the name as it is written in purely unvocalized form, hence pronounced Leyli. So the spelling problem only exists in Latin characters.

Majnun would be good transcription for both Persian and Arabic. Mecnun represents the modern Turks use of 'c' for the English 'j' sound and the fact that they hear the first vowel as closer to an 'e' than to an 'a'. Languages like French need to use 'ou' to represent 'u' hence Medjnoun, etc. etc. DAVUD 92.140.77.106 (talk) 11:55, 21 February 2010 (UTC)

=
=== "Laylah" wasnt inspired by Laylah and Majnun! Laylah was inspired by Clapton's new wife at the time, Patti Boyd, ex of George Harrison (and inspiration for Beatles hit "Something") -User: Afghan Historian
 * Yes, and I always get puzzled looks when I mention that trivia! Also in Hindi and Urdu मजनूँ/مجنوں majnūṅ; is used as an adj. to describe someone [m.] hopelessly, madly in love in movie lyrics; as well as poetry (in the local extension of the Sufi tradition mostly; e.g. Ghālib, et al.). And as earlier mentioned, yes, I believe (or so my Urdu dictionary says) that ليلى is derived from ليلة, meaning 'night'. Both my Hindi and Urdu dictionaries also say the original meaning of Majnūn means 'possessed by a jinn (thus the love-sick metaphor)', but I would leave this to someone who knows Arabic, beyond my very limited recognition of the Ar. word construction. I have also heard a Persian acquaintance, or two, say the symbolism of their names correlate with the relationship of the night with the day. This fits perfectly within the framework of both several occult systems and most neo-pagan paths; but I'm not sure if this male/female=sun/moon interpretation was intended by Nizami. Am I also the only one who has heard it suggested that the star-crossed love stories; particularly of chivalric Europe (Romeo & Juliette, Tristan & Isolte, Deirdre, etc, etc, etc.), derive from this story? I think Anarkali is a pretty obvious Mughal variant. As to the Layla wa Majnun story; it is itself quite possibly derived from Vis u Ramin. Khirad 23:58, 19 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Yes, it was. Clapton was given a copy and used the story metaphorically to describe his love for Boyd, who at that time was still married to George Harrison. The sixth track of Layla and Other Assorted Love Songs is a direct quote from Nezami. ASigIAm213

قيس بن الملوح Qays ibn al-Mullawah

 * Khoikhoi why did YOU delete my edits on Layla and Majnun article this epic is well-known as Arabic tale and the name قيس بن الملوح Qays ibnul mulawwah is clearly Arabic from ( Othra عذرةan Arabic tribe )in northern Hijaz which is now in Saudi Arabia ......or you just want to delete every thing related to Arabic and Arab people as usual .....This is not fair I can delete (vandalize) a lot of other articles but this does not mean I can delete the truth please be fair for the neutrality of Wikipedia...and stop your unacceptable reverting.Aziz1005 22:19, 4 February 2007 (UTC)
 * As far as I know in Persian the word devaneh ديوانيه means crazy where in Arabic مجنون Majnun means crazy from the verb junna جن (with shadda شدة )which means became crazy .Also for your own knowledge the original poems  in this epic have been written in ArabicAziz1005 22:26, 4 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Just a small correction Aziz, Qays and Layla were both from Bani Aamir not Bani Uthra. Jameel Buthaina was from Bani Uthra..

Style
Hope nobody minds, I improved the English a little - get the impression some of this was not written by native English speakers. Really interesting story.Jeffsunshine (talk) 18:14, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

"Notorious"?
The text has the following "Layla has also been mentioned in many works by the notorious Aleister Crowley in many of his religious texts, perhaps most notably, in The Book of Lies."   Is "notorious" quite the right word for use in an objective article?

Layla and Majnun?
It's knows as Majnun Layla means " Crazy of Layla " .. not Layla and majnun .. Majnun is not a name. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 41.196.168.55 (talk) 22:56, 13 February 2010 (UTC)

"Azerization" totally POV and inaccurate
So-called "Azerization" is not even a valid term or concept. Nizami is universally accepted as a primarily Persian language poet. This type of Azeri nationalism and not only POV hijacking of articles, but inserting completely inaccurate and uneducated theories is ridiculous. IranianGuy (talk) 06:11, 13 August 2010 (UTC)


 * Well the Persian Nationalism plaguing Wikipedia everywhere is equally uneducated and inaccurate. I know Persian Nationalists believe Azerbaijan to be there's much like Iraq, but that does not necessitate a uniform cultural or ethnic identity. Despite Nizami writing in the Persian langauge, it does not rule out placing some distinct Azeri cultural influences into his adaptation. Your arguement based solely on language doesn't cover cultural influences which could be different. I am no expert on Nizami, so I wont change anything, but just to point out it is possible for him to write in the Persian language, but retain a different identity and culture. Just like Avicenna wrote in the Arabic language but retained Persian/Bacterian culture and identity. Pink Princess (talk) 02:24, 11 January 2011 (UTC)

The response by Pink Princess is highly accurate. This less an attempt at promoting Azerization and more to do with accuracy of information. If you knew Azeri, you would understand the translation of the poet's full name. Nizami Ganjavi means Nizami from Ganja - that is the literal translation. Ganja also happens to be a prehistoric city formed in the 5th century. If i were to write a poem in English, that doesnt necessarily make me of British or American origin. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.72.102.184 (talk) 14:04, 25 November 2011 (UTC)

"Ganj" is a Persian word meaning treasure, the city was founded long before any turk crawled out of the steppes of Mongolia. Nezami Ganjavi lived back when the city was still Persian-majority, the overwhelming consensus by third-party (neither Iranian or turkic) historians is that Nizami was a native Persian-speaker, and therefore not an "Azerbaijani" poet. --Qahramani44 (talk) 10 December 2018 —Preceding undated comment added 04:31, 11 December 2018 (UTC)

Persian Section
The Persian Adaptation section veers wildly off the stated topic title, and returns back to the Arabic origins of the epic story. I think the section where is leaves it's Persian Focus should be isolated and retitled to something more appropriate to the subject it covers. So I am going to move/add a new title to the latter parts of the current section on the Persian copying. Pink Princess (talk) 02:08, 11 January 2011 (UTC)


 * Ok, I moved the section on the PURELY ARABIC "Virgin Love Stories" to the main section, as it is neither started nor developed by Persians who merely copied it. It had no place in the Persian Adaptaion section. No sourced material were deleted, this is merely a move from one inappropriate section to a more appropriate one. Please discuss any issue here before moving it, or it will be moved back and reported. Peace. Pink Princess (talk) 02:16, 11 January 2011 (UTC)

Arabic or Persian?
It seems that there is an edit war regarding this issue. The story is originally Arabic but in its current form and rendering is mainly known due to the work of Persian poet Nezami Ganjavi and this work was later imitated many times by other Persian and Turkic-speaking poets. Nezami's work was translated into European languages and the story became known in the West.

So, I suggest in the lead paragraph we say "originally Arabic love story which became popular by Persian poet Nezami Ganjavi" or something to that effect. BrokenMirror2 (talk) 16:37, 23 July 2012 (UTC)


 * Well, firstly, the origin of its story is not quite clear, and some sources have argued its root is from a Babylonian story. And the two stories are quite different, the original story is "simple, commonplace," (EoI, New ed., vol. 5, p. 1102) and in my view even ridiculous. What has made the whole of this subject notable is the masterpiece of Nezami. I just took a look on your contribs, it seems you are interested in Persian-related topics, if you know the language, the article on fa.wikipedia has some good informations about the subject and I suggest to read. (here) --Z 22:15, 23 July 2012 (UTC)


 * Well said . In fact 04:27, 23 August 2012 (UTC)


 * Whats the harm in mentioning the Arabic origin wouldn't that be more informing and comprehensive for the reader? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 37.106.79.135 (talk) 21:55, 23 August 2012 (UTC)


 * Ok, I added the Arabic origin. Thanks for your comment. In fact 09:39, 25 August 2012 (UTC)

Stop with the Nonsense the entire story is Arabic, the poem is Arabic, The poet is also Arabic and it's recorded and well known. Persian wiki editors should find a better hobby than assigning stories to themselves https://ar.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D9%82%D9%8A%D8%B3_%D8%A8%D9%86_%D8%A7%D9%84%D9%85%D9%84%D9%88%D8%AD — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.169.209.18 (talk) 21:04, 26 February 2016 (UTC)

Who said the story only got popular because of this “Nizami” guy ? it was popular long before your beloved Nizami was even born! and it’s still very popular in the Arab world from Morocco to Kuwait, where everyone knows the narrative and remembers Majnun's poetry, even though they have no idea who this "Nizmai" guy is or how to speak Farsi.. Claiming the story got famous only because of Nizmai is like claiming the Iliad only got famous because of the American movie Troy (2004). This level of Persian centrism is laughable! your Persian poets were not that famous in the Medieval Islamic world and they used Arabic meters to write their poetry and were inspired by Arabic literature and Nizami is an example of Arabic influence. if he was a live today he would laugh at this because I’m 100% he never thought that people would give this much credit. Also people here seem to forget that majnun is not a fictional character he is a historical person and a famous poet who even praised Umayyad Caliphs and was a known figure in his time. Jasmkssnksskskskskz (talk) 22:28, 7 January 2022 (UTC)

This article, going forward
I have contributed an hour's worth of research and editing to this article, focusing mostly on the history section as I am currently writing a paper on this book for a university class. I hope the edits I left can be used as a guide for those who expand this page even more, as I am no expert.

Going forward, editors need to ensure that formatting is consistent as per WP:MOS (i.e. titles are put in italics), that there are no repeated or redundant sentences, and that quotes are expanded on as opposed to simply copied and pasted into the article, which isn't allowed (WP:Copy-paste) and can sometimes lead to vague information. By doing these things, the page will be assessed higher and be of greater importance to readers, which this article deserves as it is a fantastic love story!

Thank you to all who have worked on this article so far, I hope Layla and Majnun continue to receive the attention they deserve! Kind regards, TheSkiRacer (talk) 17:06, 27 August 2015 (UTC)

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Who said the story only got popular because of this “Nizami” guy ?
Who said the story only got popular because of this “Nizami” guy ? it was popular long before your beloved Nizami was even born! and it’s still very popular in the Arab world from Morocco to Kuwait, where everyone knows the narrative and remembers Majnun's poetry, even though they have no idea who this "Nizmai" guy is or how to speak Farsi.. Claiming the story got famous only because of Nizmai is like claiming the Iliad only got famous because of the American movie Troy (2004). This level of Persian centrism is laughable! your Persian poets were not that famous in the Medieval Islamic world and they used Arabic meters to write their poetry and were inspired by Arabic literature and Nizami is an example of Arabic influence. if he was a live today he would laugh at this because I’m 100% he never thought that people would give this much credit. Also people here seem to forget that majnun is not a fictional character he is a historical person and a famous poet who even praised Umayyad Caliphs and was a known figure in his time. and his poetry and Divan was collected in early Abbasid period. Jasmkssnksskskskskz (talk) 22:32, 7 January 2022 (UTC)

Persian nationalists propaganda is intolerable
Am I reading an Arabic or Persian story? This poetry and story is famous before the poetry reaches Persia! Why is the Wikipedia page silent about the absurdity of Persian nationalists? 2A00:5400:E058:2A14:751B:F919:B7EC:81D7 (talk) 01:54, 26 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Not sure what your rant is for, the article says its an Arab poem and was famous among Arabs before Nizami. The Persian and Turkish sections are for the later adaptation in their own literature. Nizami's translation (and later poets like Fuzuli) made it popular among Persians and Turks and Indians, the article isnt saying he invented the poem. --Qahramani44 (talk) 21:28, 26 June 2022 (UTC)

Conflicting information in article
The Article initially claims this is a Persian story about a 7th century Persian poet. It goes on to say the story was known to Arabs as early as the 5th century. FCBarçalona10 (talk) 22:36, 9 May 2024 (UTC)