Talk:Le Grand Macabre

The giant section of plot, that's not taken from a CD insert or anything is it? Google doesn't have it, but there's something about that style that seems dodgy... if nothing else, it needs to be cleaned up and wikified.Cantras 22:54, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

The opera is not two acts but four scenes, which I fixed 71.134.59.243 03:36, 15 July 2007 (UTC)also fixed broken link to interviewDrabauer 03:37, 15 July 2007

Recording
There is at least one recording. I believe it was on WERGO.

It should be added. Varlaam (talk) 00:19, 28 July 2011 (UTC)
 * There was the Wergo recording under Elgar Howarth (in German) in the late 1980s and a Sony recording uder Esa-Pekka Salonen (in English) in the late 1990s. Wergo also issued a single LP of "Szenen und Zwischenspiele" from the opera, also under Elgar Howarth, round about 1980.  This is all from memory &mdash; does anyone have details?  --Deskford (talk) 09:49, 28 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Wergo 2-CD set WER 286 170-2. Recorded 16 October 1987, released 1991, sung in German. Sung by Dieter Weller (baritone), Penelope Walmsley-Clark (soprano), Olive Fredricks (mezzosoprano), Peter Haage (tenor), the ORF-Choir, Arnold Scheonberg-Choir (Erwin Ortner, choir-master), the Gumpoldskirchner Spatzen (Elisabeth Ziegler, choir-master), and the ORF-Symphonie-Orchester, conducted by Elgar Howarth. The Sony issue was a live recording made in Paris in 1998, released the following year on S2K 62312. Performers were Sibylle Ehlert and Laura Claycomb (sopranos), Charlotte Hellekant and Jard van Nes (mezzosopranos), Derek Lee Ragin (countertenor), Graham Clark and Steven Cole (tenors), Richard Stuart, Martin Winkler, Marc Campbell-Griffiths, and Michael Lessiter (baritones), Willard White and Frode Olsen (basses), London Sinfonietta Voices, Philharmonia Orchestra, conducted by Esa-Pekka Salonen. The "Szenen und Zwischenspiele" were recorded in 1979 and released in 1980 on Wergo LP WER 60 085, with Inga Nielsen (soprano), Olive Fredricks (mezzo), Peter Haage (tenor), Dieter Weller (baritone), Chorus and Orchester of the Danish Radio, Copenhagen, conducted by Elgar Howarth.—Jerome Kohl (talk) 16:38, 28 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Wow! You must have access either to a good reference source or an enviable record library (or perhaps a photographic memory)! Is it appropriate to put this level of detail into the article?  If there were dozens of recordings it might be a bit overwhelming, but since there are only two and a half it's perhaps OK.  --Deskford (talk) 00:22, 29 July 2011 (UTC)
 * I have access to OCLC WorldCat (which is a very good reference source), but any online university music-library catalog should do as well. Yes, I should think that this level of detail is not only appropriate, but compulsory. All that is missing is the author (obvious), and title of each recording (very nearly as obvious). Desirable if not required is the place and publisher (Mainz and Schott for Wergo, presumably; Sony is a little less certain, but a little research should discover the details).—Jerome Kohl (talk) 04:37, 29 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Now added to the article, along with two other recordings containing excerpts.—Jerome Kohl (talk) 18:01, 30 July 2011 (UTC)

I may be missing something, but does anyone know why are pieces by Cage and Kegel listed in detail under 'Recordings' ? Cg2p0B0u8m (talk) 20:53, 1 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Possibly because they are components of a recording that also includes excerpts from Le Grand Macabre? Would it be better to pretend they are not a part of that disc, or to present the contents in some other format? Discographies customarily list the entire contents of each recording, though in specialized cases like this one an argument may be made for abbreviation.—Jerome Kohl (talk) 22:24, 1 August 2012 (UTC)


 * Well, if those pieces are part of the Musik in Deutschland CD, then they can certainly be removed from this listing with a note that the relevant pieces form part of a larger collection on disc - but don't bother to name them. Viva-Verdi (talk) 01:36, 2 August 2012 (UTC)


 * What do you suggest, then? List the details for the excerpts from Le Grand Macabre, and then say something like, "with other pieces by Ligeti, Kagel, and Cage"? That would certainly be possible.—Jerome Kohl (talk) 04:28, 2 August 2012 (UTC)


 * Thank you for the replies, I will try an alternative which gives the prominence to Le Grand Macabre; if people prefer something else they can edit it. Cg2p0B0u8m (talk) 20:40, 2 August 2012 (UTC)


 * Your edit looks sensible to me.—Jerome Kohl (talk) 21:27, 2 August 2012 (UTC)

Article format
I have reverted the return to the original format of the article with the note that "this article falls under the guidelines of WP:Opera. Pls. refer to WikiProject Opera/Article styles and formats which has developed, by consensus a format for opera articles. Also, we have here a plea for citations".

This is an opera article. It lacked in line citations, etc. and it badly needs more. This format may encourage more. It has nothing to do with "personal choice". At least 10 editors have collaborated on developing the outline for all opera articles. Viva-Verdi (talk) 05:45, 8 January 2014 (UTC)


 * Wikipedia has policies and guidelines to deal with situations like these. The one specifically addressing this case is found at WP:CITEVAR. Citation formats are not to be changed arbitrarily (and that includes the preference of small groups of editors from WikiProjects) without first consulting the active editors on an article and obtaining consensus that the format ought to be changed. In the meantime, the established format is to be left as is. I submit furthermore that a mere change of format will not encourage or discourage editors from finding more sources. The article does not lack inline citations entirely (changing the format of those already in place is in fact the subject of this discussion), though more are needed. On the other hand, many of the unsupported claims in this article probably cannot be verified, and should be deleted.—Jerome Kohl (talk) 06:51, 8 January 2014 (UTC)