Talk:Lead(II) nitrate

Older entries
Let's see how this'll come up in the logs. Wim van Dorst (Talk)'' 19:37, 8 May 2006 (UTC).

It is too short for A-Class yet, but for such a normal compound, there's surprisingly little info. Wim van Dorst (Talk)'' 23:57, 11 May 2006 (UTC).

W. C. HamiltonA neutron crystallographic study of lead nitrate Acta Cryst. (1957). 10, 103-107   10.1107/S0365110X57000304

H. Nowotny and G. Heger Structure refinement of lead nitrate Acta Cryst. (1986). C42, 133-135   doi:10.1107/S0108270186097032

--134.76.234.75 07:42, 12 May 2006 (UTC)


 * thanks for the references, I agree that other than that there is not much to be found on this topic, turned the library upside down. V8rik 20:58, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

Lead Nitrate, history
Production 1st in USA 1943? My ancestors producing & selling this in Lancashire 1870's.--Bostan 13:31, 23 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Hi Bostan, it is phrased oddly, that is true. It says that the first commercial production in the USA was in 1943. It should not say that the first commercial production was in 1943 in the USA. So it needs rephrasing. More importantly, would you have information about the period before 1943 (anywhere in the world, but notably in Lancashire of course), that could contribute to the value of this article? Wim van Dorst (Talk)'' 14:20, 23 July 2006 (UTC).

Wim, I have replied on your talk page, not used to this yet--Bostan 15:20, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

Aqueous chemistry
In my opinion, most of what is said under "Aqueous chemistry" should belong to the Pb(II) cation and not to lead nitrate specifically (even though in practice you could have only lead nitrate or lead acetate in aqueous solution). The precipitation of lead iodide or lead hydroxide oxides is not a property of lead nitrate but of the divalent lead cation. What's specific for lead nitrate is then e.g. that it is used in the demonstration of precipitation reactions (where of course lead iodide also may be mentioned) but for closer description of which reactions occur between the lead cation and various anions I think a reference to an article about the cation should be more appropriate.


 * This is a valid issue to discuss, but at present we don't have a set of pages on cations (I even proposed this last year, but we agreed we did'nt have the resources of people to write those pages, and people dind't see it as a priority). However, the precipitation of lead hydroxide IS a property of lead nitrate, in the same way that a property of hydrochloric acid is to react with aq. NaOH to make aq. NaCl.  An article on HCl that doesn't give examples of acid-base reactions would be flawed - in the same way, an article on lead nitrate needs examples of pptn reactions.  This would be less valuable but for the fact that the nitrate and acetate are the only soluble lead salts commonly found.  Actually the Pb(OH)2 point is an interesting one, because I added the section in the article that states in fact it usually does NOT form Pb(OH)2 but rather a basic lead(II) nitrate - in other words, the compound is NOT behaving like a simple Pb2+(aq) ion.


 * If you would like to write an article on the Pb(II) cation (and other cations!), I'd encourage you to do that, I think it would be a valuable addition to Wikipedia. It would provide a good place to discuss these issues in a more general context.  Thanks, Walkerma 05:48, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

Plumb dulcis
Plumb dulcis (Sweet lead) is the term from the alchemist. The German word for lead acetate is Bleizucker (Lead suggar). Some quaestions to this: Is there a possible mix up between the words, chemicals or between the languages? Is it possible to mention that Plumb dulcis is called that way because it tastes sweet? --Stone 12:27, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Done. Wim van Dorst (Talk)'' 13:44, 26 December 2007 (UTC).

Taste
The article fails to mention the taste of this compound.


 * It does say "dulcis" under the name, and we don't want to be giving people ideas, now do we?--Ron E 00:49, 8 March 2007 (UTC)


 * The sweet taste of many Beryllium salts (which are also poisonous) is mentioned in that article. Taste-based nomenclature is an interesting topic if considered from a history of chemistry perspective.  --Noren 14:57, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

No space before the parentheses
It seems like there should be a space before the parentheses, no? --Liface 00:38, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
 * No space is standard IUPAC notation. æ² ✆ 2007&#x2011;03&#x2011;08t01:36z
 * That's right, there is no space in IUPAC. This is also explained here. Walkerma 02:39, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

Anon comment
The following was left on the page-rating thingie, so I'm moving it here:

I feel I must query the description of lead(II) nitrate as a "strong, stable oxidizer".

Whilst lead (II) compounds could be reduced to lead metal by strong reducing agents (thus categorizing them as weak oxidizers), they are more commonly thought of as weak reducing agents, that can be oxidized to lead (IV) by strong oxidizers. In any case no examples are brought in the article to demonstrate any oxidizing or reducing properties. (The example given where lead nitrate forms oxygen and dinitrogen tetroxide is not a demonstration of lead ion as an oxidizer, but rather a disproportionation of the nitrate ion.)

Perhaps a better description might be "a stable compound, with weak oxidation and reduction properties". 194.90.190.116 08:31, 8 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Its hazards are listed under NFPA 704 as an oxidizer. Under fire hazards, Aldrich's MSDS site warns it's a [strong oxidizer].  Considering the conveniently web-accessible safety information I think the existing description is correct. --Noren 15:10, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

It is an oxidizer, shown by the decomposition to PbO. I copy-edited the text to make this clearer. Thanks for the pointer: It has been in the text since 2003, and not been pointed out before. Wim van Dorst (Talk)'' 09:23, 27 December 2007 (UTC).

Help!
This page got vandalized, I tried to revert it to the previous version and haven't quite managed it, can someone fix it please? Sorry. Jules 15:12, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

Why is the chemical formula reading Pd instead of Pb? It is beyond my expertise (which is not much) to correct this. Dormroomchemist 08:43, 12 March 2007 (UTC)


 * I think this was a type in one of the templates, where I found Pd marked down as lead (Note - these templates are really complicated!). I fixed the typo, and, Hey Presto! nothing changed. (Maybe a server cache problem?) It was also calculating the wrong molar mass.  So I used the slightly lower tech version and forced the formula * molar mass in, and that has worked.  I also noticed an embarrassing problem with the solubility, also fixed. Walkerma 22:40, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

Lead Nitrate-history
lead nitrate in production in USA 1835. The reference is contained in "Progress of America to year 1846" by John Macgregor, pub London 1847 by Whittaker & Co,which can be accessed through Google Books. Interesting but brief article on Chemical establishment in USA. (Bostan 14:09, 2 October 2007 (UTC))


 * Excellent reference. Included in the article. Wim van Dorst (Talk)'' 17:14, 26 December 2007 (UTC)

More lead nitrate history
According to the article the compound was synthesized as early as the 15th century by the German alchymist Andreas Libavius. According to the linked article about Libavius, he lived from 1555 to 1616. Is it linked to wrong person, is it given wrong facts in the other article, or is it wrong facts in this article? I tried to check out the source, but couldn't find anything of interest there... Grrahnbahr 20:40, 11 November 2007 (UTC)


 * The century was wrong (sometimes people get confused and think that the 1500s were the 15th century...). Google books finds many references that mention him as the discoverer. I've updated the article accordingly. --Itub 11:04, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

Summarized safety section
I've summarized the safety section per WikiProject Chemicals/Style guidelines. I'm dumping the removed text here: --Rifleman 82 05:10, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

Symptoms include intestinal malfunction, strong abdominal pains, appetite loss, nausea, vomiting and cramps, while longer-term exposure may lead to neurological and renal problems. Lead compounds are known to be cumulative poisons, as more than 90% of absorbed lead is fixed in bone tissue from which it is only slowly released over a period of years.

Children are more efficient at absorbing lead from the gastrointestinal tract than adults, and thus more at risk from lead poisoning. Exposure to lead compounds during pregnancy has been linked to increased rates of spontaneous abortion, fetal malformation and low birth weight. Given the cumulative nature of lead toxicity, children and pregnant women should be exposed to soluble lead compounds as little as possible — this is a legal requirement in many countries.

Due care should be taken before and during handling of lead(II) nitrate, including the use of protective equipment such as eye and face protection and rubber gloves. Experiments with lead(II) nitrate should be conducted in fume hoods, and spillages must not be discharged into the environment (details in the material safety data sheets, as listed under external links).¶

Up to featured again?
In a previous FA review, Marskell, Grrahnbahr and Tony brought forward: The review procedure was left dangling, and recently this article was demoted from FA to B-Class. It is my intention to work on these topics to further improve the article and have it up as Featured Article again. Please assist. Wim van Dorst (Talk)'' 20:56, 25 December 2007 (UTC).
 * FA criteria concerns are comprehensiveness (1b) and referencing (1c).
 * wrong facts (1c)
 * it doesn't include many details about major topics like history and production.
 * it's looking wobbly. For example: "Lead(II) nitrate is toxic and probably carcinogenic to humans. Therefore, it is to be handled and stored with the appropriate safety precautions." No reference; "it should be handled".
 * It keeps referring to 19th-century Europe: but when exactly? Surely someone knows whether it was 1801 or 1899? Makes a big difference.

Sentence starting with e.g.
"E.g., lead(II) chloride, lead(II) bromide and lead(II) iodide, collectively known as lead halides, are weakly soluble in water (less than 0.01 mole per litre) at room temperature, and only slightly more closer to the boiling point."

I think this should be changed by "for example" or something similar. This formulation isn't very pleasant. Randomblue (talk) 21:11, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks for pointing this Opportunity for Improvement. Done as recommended, with another copy-edit to clarify the sentence even more. Would you care to comment at the FA candidacy of this article? Please?  Wim van Dorst  (talk)  23:01, 6 January 2008 (UTC).

Toxicity
Is lead(II) nitrate toxic enough that touching a single drop of the solution (and washing it off after 1 or 2 seconds) would cause fatal poisoning? --75.40.206.92 (talk) 00:50, 4 September 2009 (UTC)


 * No. --Itub (talk) 22:17, 4 September 2009 (UTC)

"Plumb pudding"???
Is this a joke? Stonemason89 (talk) 15:09, 23 October 2009 (UTC)


 * It's uncaught vandalism by 81.38.78.137. Reverted to original wording.&mdash;Tetracube (talk) 15:23, 23 October 2009 (UTC)

Tangential stuff
I've removed a chunk of material:

Any solution containing the lead(II) cation will react with a solution containing the iodide anion to produce a precipitate of the bright orange-yellow lead(II) iodide. This reaction is often used to demonstrate precipitation, because of the striking colour change observed, under the name Pot-o-Gold or Golden Rain:

Nearly all other lead compounds are insoluble in water, even when coupled with commonly very soluble anions. For example, lead(II) chloride, lead(II) bromide and lead(II) iodide, collectively known as lead halides, are merely weakly soluble in water (less than 0.01 mol/L) at room temperature, and only slightly more soluble when heated. This means that lead(II) nitrate has particular importance as a starting point for the production of insoluble lead compounds via double decomposition.

Hot solutions of lead halides can be brought to precipitation on cooling to create feathery, iridescent crystals suspended in water, the colour of which crystal depends on the particular halide (chloride = white, bromide = buff, iodide = yellow). These crystals appear suddenly, requiring only a nucleation site once the temperature of the solution has fallen sufficiently for the solution to be supersaturated. This effect is used for demonstration of solubility in classrooms.

I'll try to find a way to integrate it into the lead article. --Rifleman 82 (talk) 16:25, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

Featured Article
This is great!--71.87.154.194 (talk) 00:36, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

Geslead
Is "geslead paints" correct? --Mortense (talk) 07:55, 19 October 2012 (UTC)
 * It seems to be the result of the incomplete reversal of 72.19.93.104's vandalism (by another anonymous editor, 87.227.65.36) on 2012-08-11T00:15:13. --Mortense (talk) 09:05, 19 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Reaction? (pun intended) --Mortense (talk) 00:05, 21 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Could some kind soul take a look at it? --Mortense (talk) 20:22, 5 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Hello?!?!? --Mortense (talk) 19:04, 8 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Hopefully, someone comes around to look at this. --Mortense (talk) 19:24, 18 November 2012 (UTC)

It was fixed 2 weeks ago. In future, you should feel free to correct the article if you see a mistake. --Rifleman 82 (talk) 19:58, 18 November 2012 (UTC)

External links modified
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 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20080306134819/http://monographs.iarc.fr/ENG/Monographs/suppl7/suppl7.pdf to http://monographs.iarc.fr/ENG/Monographs/suppl7/suppl7.pdf

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Featured article?
This article has just been reduced by one third. The article has been halved in length since its original promotion to featured article status. How can it meet the comprehensiveness criterion of Featured article criteria after such a huge reduction? DrKay (talk) 19:55, 11 October 2019 (UTC)
 * The lead paragraph was indeed subject to pure vandalism. It is a no-brainer to re-instate the original lede of the time that the article was duly promoted to FA, which I just did. Any other improvement recommendations? I've checked the refs, and they seem all to be OK, still. An article on a chemical compound is not expected to require content adjustement, so the info should be complete now as it was some ten years ago. But thanks calling attention to the untraced vandalism, repaired now.  Wim van Dorst  (talk)  12:57, 26 October 2019 (UTC).
 * Wow, there is much more removed. It isn't just the lede. Mmm, unpleasant behaviour. I'll copy-edit to revert, and try to capture the good additions since 2008.  Wim van Dorst  (talk)  13:08, 26 October 2019 (UTC).
 * Some minor vandalism reverts were easy. However, the major change is by Dr Gans, of Leeds University who is certainly knowledgeable enough about the topic. I asked on his talk page to comment on his major wikipedia changes, and am awaiting elucidation. We can always boldly revert to the version of early September 2019, but I rather co-operate on improvement.  Wim van Dorst  (talk)  13:29, 27 October 2019 (UTC).
 * The lead repeats various phrases word for word. It should summarize significant content. Petergans (talk) 14:40, 27 October 2019 (UTC)

Split the chem box
This is a trial to see if layout can be improved when there is a chem box present. The hazards section of the chem box has been moved to a separate chem box in the hazards section of the article. This has reduced the size of the box at the top of the article and has allowed all graphical material to be right-justified. The readability of the article has consequently been improved considerably. Comments (here) on this split as a prototype for a general approach will be appreciated. Petergans (talk) 17:09, 15 January 2020 (UTC)

Fixed Broken Chembox Formatting
The properties table of the chembox was broken and the raw formatting data was just at the bottom of the page. I moved the information into the preexisting box and removed the broken information and the box to the top of the page. Please note, this is my very first Wikipedia edit, please fix or revert changes without hesitation. --Buinton (talk) 21:11, 18 May 2020 (UTC)

Chemistry
Describe how lead (2)nitrate is prepared in laboratory stating from lead(2)oxide 154.159.237.186 (talk) 19:44, 5 September 2023 (UTC)