Talk:Leader of the Opposition (Ireland)

Article title
Shouldn't this page be called "Leader of the Opposition (Ireland)", - to be clear that this is about a title called "Leader of the Opposition" - to be consistent with e.g. the article "Leader of the Opposition (Canada)", "Leader of the Opposition (New Zealand)", ... ?


 * Let it be done, this Irish prefix is an inferiority. Djegan 18:29, 9 November 2005 (UTC)

This article and the article on the oppositon Frnk Bench are completely wrong. It is just Fine Gael bestowing additional titles on its member. None of the other parties ever regarded the Fine Gael Leader as leader of the opposition. User:Franktoconnor. —Preceding undated comment added 12:52, 7 August 2010 (UTC).

This entire has no basis in fact
This article purports to describe an office of 'Leader of the Opposition' in Dail Eireann. No such office exists. It is claimed that the holder of this mythical office is the current leader of the Fine Gael party.

Examination of the history of the article shows it to have been started from an IP address that also started several articles on the Fine Gael party and its leader.

It is very clear that this partisan article was written by a supporter of Fine Gael and that the intention was to present that party and its leader as enjoying a higher status in Irish politics than the facts admit.

It should be deleted because it has no factual basis and it breeches the requirement for articles to be neutral.

BvB —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.46.196.247 (talk) 22:49, 28 September 2010 (UTC)

There is no statutory basis for the title "Leader of the Opposition", but it is based in fact. jnestorius(talk) 13:55, 17 November 2010 (UTC)
 * frequently mentioned in Dáil debates: site:historical-debates.oireachtas.ie "leader of the opposition"
 * Section 10 of the Ministerial and Parliamentary Offices Act, 1938 established allowances for "Leader of the Second Party" and "Leader of the Third Party", although Oireachtas (Miscellaneous Provisions) and Ministerial and Parliamentary Offices (Amendment) Act, 1996 changes this to "parliamentary leader" of a "qualifying party".

Having said which, the early history is not clearcut. Some early references in Dáil debates:
 * 28 February, 1922: Geroge Gavan Duffy refers to Éamon de Valera as "The leader of the opposition"
 * 9 March 1923: W.T. Cosgrave says "the leader of the Opposition, if we might so call Deputy Johnson"
 * 16 August 1927: Thos Johnson says "the leader of the Opposition, Deputy de Valera" and "It had never been my choice, or desire, that I should be placed in the position of having had to lead the chief section of the Opposition in the last Dáil. I am glad to say that that is no longer my position. Perhaps I might even use the words of a much greater man than any we have among us, that 'I am now in a position of greater freedom and less responsibility'".
 * The motion of no confidence in the Cumann na nGaedhal government was proposed by Johnson, not de Valera; and the deal was that Johnson would take over as President of the Executive Council in a Labour - Farmers coalition with the outside support of Fianna Fáil. Which prompts the question of whether Dev was in any sense the Leader of the Opposition between the day he took the Oath and the Dáil's reconvening after the September election. Thompson called him so; but where did the FF deputies sit when they entered the chamber: top right, or further along la curva? They didn't say much on the August 12 or on the August 16. (There is also the idle speculation of whether Dev or Cosgrave would have been Leader of the Opposition if Labour had formed the government!)
 * The 4 December 1929 Report of the Joint Committee on the Remuneration of Ministers and the Allowances to Members of Oireachtas:
 * The Committee considered the question of recommending a special allowance to the Leader of the Opposition. It realises that the amount of work which the Leader of the Opposition, or of any large party continuously in opposition, has to perform to enable him to deal adequately with the various matters which come before the Legislature is exceedingly heavy, and all the more so by reason of the fact that he has not access to technical advisers, nor the use of an official executive staff, such as are at the service of Ministers. While generally agreed as to the desirability of provision being made by the State for the Deputy holding this onerous and responsible position, the Committee finds itself unable to make a definite recommendation owing to the practical difficulties involved. Chief of these difficulties is that of devising a method, applicable to the various circumstances which might arise, of determining the person who should be regarded as the “Leader of the Opposition” in a House elected under the system of Proportional Representation. It is thought that the matter might await further experience of our parliamentary development.

jnestorius(talk) 21:06, 17 November 2010 (UTC)
 * John A. Costello appears to have formally resigned as Leader of the Opposition in 1959; the letter is in the UCD archives.

Micheal Martin stated flatly on The Late Late Show last night (25 November 2011) that he is not the 'Leader of the Opposition'. , at 1hr41mins. Cripipper (talk) 12:27, 26 November 2011 (UTC)

Alternative Taoiseach
He or she is invariably seen as the alternative Taoiseach to the present incumbent

Is this really fair? Micheal Martin, for example, is certainly not seen (at least not with any support) as the alternative Taoiseach. So we might at least drop or change "invariably" in the quote above. Msclguru (talk) 16:42, 26 January 2012 (UTC)

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 * Bertie Ahern 2004.jpg

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Third Party Leader
I did the same on this list adding Leo V as the 3rd party leader, which he is, however he is in government and inline with the list those from the 3rd party that go into government they don't get listed. The Green Party is the 4th biggest party (also in government), followed by the Social Democrats and The Labour Party (with six seats each). IrishTV (talk) 11:43, 31 August 2020 (UTC)

Deputy Leader of the Opposition
Possibly related to above. Out of the 9 results returned for a search for "deputy leader of the opposition" and "pearse doherty", just one reference includes this, published on 15 July when the Pearse Doherty article just happened to include it. I am removing the claim from this and the Pearse Doherty article. FDW777 (talk) 16:52, 5 September 2020 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion
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 * John A Costello, 1949.jpg

Third Party Leader
Is there a reason why the "Third Party Opposition Leader" only shows Labour and not the Social Democrats too? They both have the same amount of seats in the Dáil. Apparently "rationale for only including one party has already been discussed" according to the last edit but I can't find a record of that discussion anywhere. anto475 16:35, 30 May 2021 (UTC)

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 * John A Costello, 1949.jpg