Talk:Least developed countries

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VOTE!! - HDI in Infobox#Countries|country infobox/template?
The Human Development Index (HDI) is a standard UN measure/rank of how developed a country is or is not. It is a composite index based on GDP per capita (PPP), literacy, life expectancy, and school enrollment. However, as it is a composite index/rank, some may challenge its usefulness or applicability as information.

Thus, the following question is put to a vote:

Should any, some, or all of the following be included in the Wikipedia Infobox#Countries|country infobox/template:
 * (1) Human Development Index (HDI) for applicable countries, with year;
 * (2) number of country’s HDI;
 * (3) Category of country’s HDI (high, medium, or low)?

YES / NO / UNDECIDED/ABSTAIN - vote here

Thanks!

E Pluribus Anthony 01:52, 20 September 2005 (UTC)
 * I vote for it. Lejman 19:57, 3 October 2007 (UTC)

page move?
This should be moved to "Least Developed Countries" right? I mean, the "Least Developed Countries" is a specific list, which includes some of the "least developed countries" in the world. The words "Least Developed Countries" constitute a proper noun and should thus be capitalised according to Naming conventions (capitalization). &mdash;Gabbe 23:16, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

I see your point but now that you raise it, I think a move to Least developed country would be preferable, so that we are line with Developed country. An article like landlocked developing country, which currently does only comprise a list, should be moved to List of landlocked countries. How about this? Mediatetheconflict 03:35, 8 April 2006 (UTC)


 * Are you sure you see my point? There's a difference between "least developed countries" and "Least Developed Countries". There is a significant overlap between them, but they differ in more ways than just their spelling. For example, in the United States a Democrat is a member of the Democratic Party, but a democrat is an adherent of democracy, regardless of whether they're Democrats, Republicans or even Libertarians. The Republican Party is a "democratic" party, but it is not a "Democratic" party. The parable with developed country is inept, that article is not about a specific list called "Developed Countries" issued by some organization. This article is a specific assessment (called Least Developed Countries) over which countries constitute the least developed countries. &mdash;Gabbe 10:10, 8 April 2006 (UTC)


 * Hmm, I wish you hadn't said "inept" because that makes me think your WP etiquette is at about that level. I started off with "I see your point" in a spirit of collaboration and amity. Ironic, huh. Anyway, putting all that stuff aside, other than being ept enough to whip this article into its current shape, I've now also done some basic homework, the results of which perhaps could have been referenced initially for clarity. Yes, we are dealing with a proper noun, because the "United Nations Office of the High Representative for the Least Developed Countries, Landlocked Developing Countries and the Small Island Developing States" oversees programs intended to assist countries which meet the relevant criteria, and the article should be titled "Least Developed Countries". Mediatetheconflict 03:40, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

Additions
4 European countries were added but they are not in the map. Remove in days. Skinnyweed 15:47, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

Maldives?
A country is classified as a Least Developed Country if GNI income is less than $750, yet it lists the Maldives wich has a GNI of $3,900.
 * The critera say that a country to be removed has to break 2 of 3 creteria's two years in a row, I think, see http://www.un.org/ohrlls/ -> Least Developed Countries -> Critera if for LCD's Lejman 19:58, 3 October 2007 (UTC)

controversial statement re colonialism
"The socioeconomic and political status of least developed countries is typically a result of the lasting legacies of colonialism."

This is a very controversial statement, challenged by many historians (Niall Ferguson comes to mind, for example) and so I'm removing it until someone sources it properly and describes its actual level of acceptance.

Benwing 01:41, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

btw, the page on Developing countries has a list of reasons why underdeveloped countries may be that way; any discussion of this issue on this page should start with that list, rather than refer only to one possible reason. Benwing 01:51, 25 July 2006 (UTC)


 * Historical sociologist Philip McMichael points to colonialism as the basis for the unequal development seen between "developed" countries and the "least developed" countries today. McMichael asserts that the colonizers, namely Europe, exploited their colonies in order to develop. These colonies specialized in extraction and production of raw materials and resources which were then funneled into Europe's industrialization.  This transfer of resources allowed for Europe's economy to develop while simultaneously disrupting the social, economic, and political systems of their colonies.  McMichael singles out the colonial division of labor as the main contributor to the hegemonic relationship between the colonizers and the colonized which persists to this day. Mchen8 (talk) 05:55, 26 September 2016 (UTC)

Fourth World
I was of the understanding that Fourth World referred to indigenous peoples rather than LDCs. I've never heard LCD's referred to as Fourth World, except here.

01:44, 10 January 2007 (UTC)Sharyn Brown

Why is Pakistan listed? It has the highest GDP/capita in the mainland suncontinent in Real terms, and is listed in the N11 and the emerging markets economies. This is simply anti pakistani propoganda!

Mongolia?
Although many Mongolians live a nomadic herding lifestyle, they aren't considered poor necessarily. The country isn't in grinding poverty like many other LDCs. Zachorious 04:49, 15 February 2007 (UTC)
 * You're right, it's actually not on the UN's list, like many of the countries that were on the page. The map was up to date tho. I'm still surprised about Bhutan, though. I was just there and people seem mobile, happy and gainfully employed. Oddly the UN doesn't have so many specifics about the actual application of criteria. Potatoswatter 03:58, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

Eurasia
is a webpage from the primary source of this wikipedia article. It list Asia as a continent, not Eurasia. Furthermore, Europe is widely recognized as a continent even though it is in the same landmass as Asia. As a compromise, I've used the term Europe/Asia (Eurasia).VK35 20:54, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

Sudan
Any reason why Sudan is shown on the map but not listed among the LDCs in Africa? --Rumblegoose 22:03, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

Map
The map is from 2006 and has not been updated with Cape Verde's removal as per http://www.un.org/apps/news/story.asp?NewsID=22918&Cr=cape&Cr1=verde However, the listing at http://www.un.org/ohrlls/ -> Least Developed Countries -> Country Profiles still list Cape Verde, so I'm unsure I should update it with that. Lejman 19:57, 3 October 2007 (UTC)

Haiti
What about Haiti? It appears in the map and is referenced as a least developed country in its Wiki page. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 171.69.75.128 (talk) 21:45, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

Lesotho
Lesotho is on the map, but is not listed under the countries. I checked and there are 29 countries written in the list, so I don't know what's wrong with it. KV5 •  Squawk box  •  Fight on!  17:25, 2 July 2008 (UTC)

Ethiopia
These two links seem to say Ethiopia is still on the list, why was it removed? dougweller (talk) 20:03, 27 November 2008 (UTC)

Ethiopia is not in the list anymore because the countrys GNI is $1805 for 2009 and the country has low poverty compared to other african counties. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Miw93 (talk • contribs)


 * Ethiopia was removed by Miw93, a.k.a. user:213.100.68.170, removed it. The user edits Ethiopia-related articles on several language versions and adds incorrect information.Sjö (talk) 19:32, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

Zimbabwe
Does Zimbabwe become a LDC? Jimm36 (talk) 14:43, 21 April 2009 (UTC)
 * I assume you mean "Is" and not "Does". UN does not define it as such. In reality, it may be.Phd8511 (talk) 15:52, 24 July 2011 (UTC)

Maldives
Maldives have been promoted to Developing Country Status recently but they still appear in the list. I am removing it. http://www.asiantribune.com/news/2011/01/03/maldives-no-longer-un-poorest-nation-list —Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.166.135.199 (talk) 08:28, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

Less-Developed Countries? or Least Huh
There seems to be a discrepancy between this wiki article and what I have in a 2009 textbook of international marketing. (International marketing / Philip R. Cateora, Mary C. Gilly, John L. Graham / Boston : McGraw-Hill Irwin, c2009 14th edition)

When I searched for Less-Developed Country, it brings up the Least Developed Country which according to the text is completely different. The text classifies less-developed countries as LDC and least-developed as LLDC.

LDCs(less-developed countries). Industrially developing countries just entering world trade, many of which are in Asia and Latin America, with relatively low per capita income (pp. 247) LLDCs(least-developed countries). Industrially underdeveloped, agrarian, subsistence societies with rural populations, extremely low per capita income levels, and little world trade involvement. Such LLDCs are found in central Africa and parts of Asia. (pp. 247) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 198.105.46.145 (talk) 20:57, 29 July 2010 (UTC)
 * This article is about one specific list defined by the UN. There are other lists and definitions. That doesn't mean that one is right and one is wrong, only that they are different.Sjö (talk) 20:42, 18 October 2010 (UTC)

I've seen LDCs defined as "Less Developed Countries" and they were effectively the same as Third World, not Fourth. I am trying to find the source now, but has anyone else heard this?

Verin 02:31, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Yes, unfortunately LDC can refer to either Less Developed Countries (broadly developing countries) or Least Developed Countries (those specifically least developed) Jonpatterns (talk) 20:06, 22 December 2013 (UTC)

Bangladesh
I don't think Bangladesh should be counted as a Least Developed Country, since it's capital city was diverse and prosperous, as well as other districts, seeing as how Bangladesh is a well-developed country. JMBZ-12 (talk) 19:16, 8 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Well, this article is about least developed countries as it is defined by the UN. One can always argue about whether any speficic country should be on the list in the linked sources, but as long as it is on the list I see no reason not to include it.Sjö (talk) 11:11, 9 February 2011 (UTC)

Why some countries are LDCs and some are not
Kindly note that in order for a country to be considered an LDC, an assessment needs to be undertaken by the Committee for Development Policy. This assessment is based on a number of factors. So, in essence at this stage Southern Sudan is NOT an LDC until an assessment determines otherwise.

(communication with Ricardo Z. Dunn Public Information Officer, UN-OHRLLS

So DO NOT Change the list to your own whims and fancies.Phd8511 (talk) 13:06, 17 August 2011 (UTC)

Guyana and Zimbabwe
How is Guyana not listed as an LDC? According to the economical state in Guyana, it had roughly about $4,700, making it a poor country int he Americas, with Haiti being the first. Also, Zimbabwe's unemployment rate is over 90% and the overall economy of the African coutnry has been severely deteriorated since around 2000. 70.45.59.145 (talk) 23:01, 6 April 2013 (UTC)


 * The criteria for LDCs are at the UN office for those states. It sometimes takes time for a country to make the list even it it meets the criteria which may be the reason they aren't included. South Sudan, for example, wasn't on the list until several months after its independence. Another reason might be that they don't meet the criteria. Anyway, there's no reason to debate here whether they should be in the article. They shouldn't since they are not on the UN list of LDCs as of today and that's the inclusion criteria in this article. Sjö (talk) 05:09, 24 April 2013 (UTC)

Palestinian Territories?
Thy --SvenAERTS (talk) 00:36, 30 May 2013 (UTC)
 * This article lists the countries defined as LDC by the UN. If the UN puts it on the list it will be included in this article. Sjö (talk) 15:26, 24 August 2013 (UTC)

Characteristics section
The section is completely unsourced and is, IMO, much too categorical. Some of the characteristics don't apply to all LDCs, and while the characteristics may apply to many of them we still need a reliable source that say it is so, especially since WP:OR apply here. Sjö (talk) 20:45, 25 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Agreed, does anyone have any sources for this? if not I will search for some. Special:Contributions/180.211.214.65 added recently (also unsourced) Over population and lack of proper distribution of wealth and resources is also a common matter within the LDC countries. Maybe should be unequal distribution of wealth, rather than 'proper'.  However, is this and over population characteristics don't strike me as unique or defining characteristics of LDC compared to more developed countries. Jonpatterns (talk) 22:34, 23 December 2013 (UTC)

East Timor listed in Asia?
Is this correct - I understand it technically isn't part of Oceania but it also technically isn't a part of Asia. 121.223.72.157 (talk) 14:25, 2 May 2015 (UTC)

Don't worry, answered my own question. I guess my problem is in the grouping of "Asian" countries with "SE Asian" countries seeing the considerable geographical separation but that is just being pedantic 121.223.72.157 (talk) 14:31, 2 May 2015 (UTC)

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Mention the Languages spoken like French 16 / English 12 / Spanish
Often the LDC's can rely upon additional funding, but the sites are often only in English. I need a quick way to remember how many LDC's are from what language group. Can you help? Thy. Below a kick off.

Angola Portugais Benin F Burkina Faso[18] F Burundi[18] F Central African Republic[18] F Chad[18] F/E Comoros[19] F Democratic Republic of the Congo F Djibouti F Equatorial Guinea S Eritrea F

Ethiopia[18] E Gambia E Guinea F Guinea-Bissau S Lesotho[18] E Liberia A Madagascar F Malawi[18] A Mali[18] F Mauritania F Mozambique A

Niger[18] F Rwanda[18] E São Tomé and Príncipe[19] S Senegal F Sierra Leone E Somalia E South Sudan[18] E Sudan E Tanzania E Togo F Uganda[18] E Zambia[18] E

External links modified
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Guyana, Venezuela and Zimbabwe
How come these three countries not in the Least Developed Countries? Guyana and Zimbabwe has the poorest income coupled with large poverty and unemployment rate. Same with Venezuela as the ongoing crisis has let to shrinking income along with food shortages poor housing. Any reason why these three aren't considered poor yet their incomes are the lowest coupled with high poverty rates? 107.77.215.51 (talk) 03:29, 18 April 2018 (UTC)


 * Seems like it. Zimbabwe's economy had shrunken significantly, same with Venezuela. And Guyana has the poorest income along with high poverty rates as well. 70.45.60.101 (talk) 22:31, 30 August 2018 (UTC)

Requested move 23 March 2020

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion. 

The result of the move request was: page moved. Andrewa (talk) 17:23, 1 April 2020 (UTC)

Least Developed Countries → Least developed countries – Most sources, including the UN itself, use the common-noun capitalization. The matching category is already at this capitalization. –LaundryPizza03 ( d c̄ ) 19:48, 23 March 2020 (UTC) 16:27, 10 April 2006‎ Gabbe talk contribs block‎ 39 bytes +39‎  moved Least developed countries to Least Developed Countries: proper noun
 * Support per WP:LOWERCASE. There is no reason that this shouldn't follow that policy. SSSB (talk) 13:46, 30 March 2020 (UTC)
 * Support per above.  Crouch, Swale  ( talk ) 17:18, 1 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Closing comment: I note this reverses
 * and considered pinging the previous mover as they are still active, but decided it's best just to move on. Andrewa (talk) 17:23, 1 April 2020 (UTC)


 * The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Changes of least developed countries
Angola, Zambia, Tanzania and Ethiopia all are lower middle income economies with Angola and Zambia with medium HDI. How are they still classified as least developed countries? Their references are their own Wikipedia pages. I think we should change that. Nlivataye (talk) 17:32, 21 September 2020 (UTC)
 * They are still on this list because they haven't met the graduation criteria as explained in the article and this link. Please note that Wikipedia only reports on the list of LDC that is maintained by the UN. This is not a classification that Wikipedia makes and that means that arguing here about whether a country should be on the list will not change the content of the article. A country will be removed when it officially graduates from the list, after a decision by the proper UN body. Sjö (talk) 18:22, 21 September 2020 (UTC)

Removed some essay-like content
I have removed this part from the article because it was not written in encyclopedic style and too detailed and not properly referenced. If you disagree with me, please comment here: "Role of civil society: In the process of increasing awareness towards the needs of the LDCs, the importance of the inputs and contributions of the members of the Civil Society were first acknowledged during the NGO Forum held in parallel to the third UN Conference on Least Developed Countries in Brussels in 2001. The importance of civil society and its contributions has also been recognised in the UNGA Resolution 63/227. Post LDC III, civil society actors have been actively engaged and involved in the UN Decision making processes concerning LDCs. They have also been involved in the implementation and follow-up, monitoring and review of the progress made by LDCs and the success of the implementation of the BPoA. For LDC IV, the UN-OHRLLS has entrusted LDC Watch, a global network of LDC Civil Society Organizations (CSOs), with taking the lead in coordinating the civil society track.

LDC Watch has organised civil society consultations at various levels. At the regional level, in partnership with the UN-OHRLLS and relevant UN agencies, the following three consultations have been organised:
 * 1) Africa LDC Civil Society Assembly on 5–6 March 2010, Addis Ababa (Ethiopia) in the lead-up to the official regional review in Africa
 * 2) Pacific LDC Civil Society Assembly on 3–6 August 2010, Port Vila (Vanuatu) in parallel to the forty-first official Pacific Islands Forum
 * 3) Asia LDC Civil Society Assembly on 22–23 November 2010, Bangkok (Thailand)

These consultations were organised to critically assess the progress made by LDCs in the ten years since the adoption of the Brussels Programme of Action and with the intention of influencing the outcome of LDC IV.

As the LDC Governments and their development partners prepare to gather together for UNLDC IV, members of Civil Society are also preparing to meet during the Civil Society Forum, which is going to be held in parallel to the official conference. UN-OHRLLS has mandated LDC Watch as the lead Civil Society Organization to coordinate the Civil Society track towards the LDC-IV conference. The Forum will open two days before the official conference begins and will continue till the end of the conference. It will bring together NGOs from all the LDCs, as well as representatives from the civil society at all levels including women’s movements, youth movements, trade unions, peasant federations, media personnel and human rights defenders."EMsmile (talk) 09:24, 23 September 2020 (UTC) "

May 2021: The map needs updating
I notice that Vietnam is shown on the map as a LDC. Not sure how long ago that was true (prior to Wikipedia?). The wp:image lab can modify the map to uncolor Vietnam, and someone ought to request as much soon, or find an accurate map to use for the article.--Quisqualis (talk) 17:37, 21 May 2021 (UTC)
 * No, Vietnam is not shown as an LDC. Ydecreux (talk) 16:15, 3 June 2021 (UTC)

Joke?
How is Pakistan not on the list when Bangladesh and Myanmar which are in the list have higher per capita income than Pakistan? Also It’s unfair Angola is in the list when it’s a lower middle income country which dropped from an upper middle income country but still has a per capita income of around 2000$ just like Kenya, India, Ghana or Nigeria Nlivataye (talk) 09:57, 3 June 2021 (UTC)
 * The inclusion criteria can be found in the sources . In the link, there is a section "Additional information" with links to more in-depth information. Fair or unfair, but Wikipedia describes the facts of the world as they are presented in reliable sources. In this article, we write about a list maintained by the UN:s Committee for Development Policy and the countries that are on this list. Our own opinions and wishes about how it ought to be should be irrelevant to the contents of the article.12:24, 3 June 2021 (UTC)

Urkaine?
What's about Ukraine? It's a very weak country, could be a LDC. Shall we add it? I think - yes. 91.211.57.107 (talk) 03:27, 21 August 2022 (UTC)
 * We don't add countries because of users' opinions. This is a list of countries the UN classifies as least developed. Ukraine is not on that cited list. Meters (talk) 03:33, 21 August 2022 (UTC)

Criticism
Why not add a "critics" part which puts into question the very concept of LDCs and how they are perceived? As someone noticed earlier in the "controversial statement re colonialism" topic from 2016, many economists, geographers argue that these nations are not necessarily "underdeveloped" but exploited, looted and colonized (through modern times neocolonialism). And while many agree with the terminology of underdevelopment, they point out, very importantly, that the Third World (including many of the "developing" countries) are being forcibly kept underdeveloped by the rich western/northern powers by looting them and using them as modern colonies. Indeed, the infrastructures of many of these countries were designed by Europeans with the sole goal of extracting resources and bring them to the European metropolis. Put in a provocative way, these countries are only good for exporting at a cheap price anything to Europe, and not at taking care of their population. This mechanism persists because of the corruption and the authoritarianism that has been favorised by the neocolonial powers to assert economic dominance. That means there is no "natural path" in which the LDCs will become "developing" countries and finally "developed" countries, because they are getting physically blocked or even "hijacked" by more powerful nations. To achieve global development, imperialism should be tackled.

For references, see the book cited in the "controversial statement re colonialism", as well as books by Yves Lacoste. IAMO The Makhnovist (talk) 09:49, 13 September 2023 (UTC)
 * LDCs are a category of developing countries, defined by the United Nations. Comments about the origin of the lagged development of poorer countries would be better located in the article about underdevelopment. Ydecreux (talk) 10:51, 13 September 2023 (UTC)

World Bank low income country section
The phrase poor country redirects to this page, but only UN definition is mentioned here. Adding World Bank low income country section wont harm anything. I had made this edit to include the list, but it got reverted. World Bank is a notable organization, and credible, so a section on that would be good addition to this article. Crashed greek (talk) 10:40, 20 September 2023 (UTC)
 * This article is not about poor countries but more specifically about LDCs. If you want to create an article about countries by World Bank income level categories, I think it may be deemed admissible as an article and could accomodate your list. Ydecreux (talk) 12:21, 20 September 2023 (UTC)
 * To expand on Ydecreux' answer: this article is about the countries on one well defined list maintained by the UN. Other lists of poor or developing countries do not belong in the article. Sjö (talk) 12:47, 20 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Then changing this article title would serve better. We can add both UN poor country list and World Bank poor country list in this article. Having multiple articles on the same thing doesnt make sense. New title can be Low Income Countries as it is WP:COMMMONNAME than current Least developed countries. Crashed greek (talk) 05:44, 21 September 2023 (UTC)
 * It is important that you understand what this article is about and that a Least developed country is not the same as a poor country, or a low income country. If you read the article you will see that it is a very specific group of countries with a very specific procedure for inclusion in the group, and for graduating from the group. It is not at all "the same thing" and there is no other common name for the countries included on this list than "Least developed countries". That is also why your repeated attempts to redirect various phrases here are incorrect, and IMO bordering on disruptive when you have had this explained to you. Sjö (talk) 16:55, 21 September 2023 (UTC)
 * I have listed the redirect for discussion. I think you are trying to distort the facts when things are clear, but I dont know why. Let us see what others think. Crashed greek (talk) 04:04, 22 September 2023 (UTC)
 * I also think that LDCs are a country category that requires its own article, which should not include other country groupings, but could refer to them in the "See also" section. A more general article on poor countries could be written, with internal links to other articles : underdevelopment, least developed countries, and probably a few others. This more general article could include the low income World Bank country list, as long as there is no article about it. Very large articles covering broad topics are less convenient to read than more targeted articles. Ydecreux (talk) 07:42, 22 September 2023 (UTC)

Nepal
How is Nepal a part of Least developed countries as well as Developing country? Both data citations are of different dates and from different sources. I don't know which one to prioritize. Waonderer (talk) 17:41, 10 February 2024 (UTC)
 * There is some overlap between those groups, so I do not see the problem or why or what you would need to prioritize. Sjö (talk) 08:14, 11 February 2024 (UTC)
 * Okay, does that mean the overlap is expected? Because that was (and still is) pretty unintuitive to me. Waonderer (talk) 12:49, 11 February 2024 (UTC)
 * LDCs are a subset of developing countries. You may be surprised because the word "developing" implies some economic success, but the reason is simply that one wanted to think positively when referring to these countries. To differentiate them from the rest, developing countries that are performing quite well are often referred as "emerging countries". Ydecreux (talk) 19:52, 11 February 2024 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the kind clarification. Waonderer (talk) 19:56, 11 February 2024 (UTC)