Talk:Leatherneck

Summary paragraph and "Leather neck collar" section contradict on original motivation for the collar — was it for posture or protection? Each says the other version is a myth :) Cbensf (talk) 14:20, 10 June 2018 (UTC)

Speaking as a retired US Marine who was indoctrinated with these and other "origin" myths at Parris Island in 1966, there are many a great things wrong with this article, as it seems to be based on Marine myths and legends - some of which are promulgated or promoted by the Marine Corps itself!

As to the origin and purpose of the leather stocks; according to Thomas E. Williams, USMC (Ret.), the director of operations for the United States Marine Corps Historical Company; "I’ve seen and handled a lot of these weapons, and I can tell you that a leather stock wouldn’t have even slowed down a cutlass assault to the neck. These were worn for one purpose — to make the Marine hold his head up straight."

[It would *certainly be difficult to sleep on duty in a stock—- thus “defensive” for the Marine on watch(?)—- but why were they black leather rather than the whitened “buff” of other issuance? The British portrait shows a white collar beneath the stock, increasing its influence on the chin. Gen. Sherman is seen wearing one in a postwar portrait. Art4med (talk) 22:55, 17 January 2021 (UTC)]

I have also handled edged weapons of all sorts, and can attest to the truth of that statement. A leather stock would barely protect from anything other than a grazing scratch - if that.

Also, such stocks were not limited to Marines, and were used by other units in the British and other European armies, as can be seen in a verse from an Irish song "The Kerry Recruit" about an enlistee during the Crimean War, who is issued "a stock of fine leather to tie 'round my throat."

Some legends (such as those on this page) associate its origins with the Barbary Pirates wars - but this overlooks the fact that US Marines were first issued leather stocks beginning in 1798 - four years before the Barbary wars began - a fact which is stated elsewhere in the article.

The high stiff cloth collar of the modern US Marines Blues is said to be a tribute to that stock collar today - but in fact, the modern US Marine dress blue uniform was clearly patterned on the British Royal Marines of the Victorian period - the preeminent naval infantry of the period.

(Likewise, the globe on the US Marines insignia was also "borrowed" from the British Marines. The original emblem in 1776 was a fouled anchor of silver or pewter. Changes were made in 1798, 1821, 1824 and 1834, when it was prescribed that a brass eagle be worn on the headgear. An eagle clutching a fouled anchor with thirteen six-pointed stars above was used on uniform buttons starting in 1804, and is still used today on the buttons of Marine dress and service uniforms, with the six-pointed stars changed to five-pointed stars.)

There are many other Marine "traditions" (like the "blood stripe") which could and should be debunked, but unfortunately, the mythology has been plastered in so many places for so long (esp. now with the Net) that it is probably a lost cause.

However, this article is in serious need of an overhaul! Seamus45 (talk • contribs) 02:17, 2 September 2018 (UTC)


 * I was told the term leather neck referred to the matted clump of hair and tar on the back of the skulls of marines aboard early privateers. The marines who were deployyed to hunt down pirates would apply tar to their long hair until it formed a leathery protective matt along the back of the neck. Since most ships kept some tar on board for emergency repairs, the practice of creating the leathery tousles was easy and became the mark of those on board charged with actually engaging in battle with pirates as they boarded their ships.
 * But that's just what I remember reading "somewhere" 50 years ago. 2601:602:CC80:D3A0:5DDE:2D52:3A64:58B6 (talk) 19:21, 21 March 2024 (UTC)