Talk:Lechuguilla Cave

The broadcast date given in the article is for the US broadcast - the episode was broadcast approximately one year earlier in the UK. When noting a broadcast date, the earliest date broadcast should be used. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 31.205.0.21 (talk) 15:34, 5 January 2018 (UTC)

Untitled
I enjoyed the articles I have read on 'Lechuguilla Cave'. I only wish I could correspond with some of the people who have been inside 'Lechuguilla Cave'. It would be a real honor —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bjones (talk • contribs) 20:38, January 7, 2006

Negation added
I negated a sentence which seemed to me to be incorrect. Original was "The claim in the BBC documentary series Planet Earth that these bacteria do not derive any energy from the sun is correct, in that sulfur-oxidizing bacteria found in the cave use atmospheric oxygen (derived from sunlight-driven photosynthesis) as an electron acceptor...". If the bacteria use oxygen derived from photosynthesis, then the claim that they do not derive any energy from the sun is INcorrect. Hence my edit ("correct" --> "incorrect"). I hope my edit is right, but feel free to correct me. Mcswell (talk) 01:35, 9 February 2022 (UTC)

No links to actual images
In an article about one of the most visually interesting things on the planet, there is no direct external link to photos! The main external links are very confusing sites that have very few actual photos. The virtual tour seems to not be working (from FireFox on a Mac). The Map and Images site is equally unsatisfying. I suggest an external link directly to this album:

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/caves/jewel.html#fea_top

--Ted K.

stolen dialogue
exact wording of most of the article stolen from government site http://www.nps.gov/archive/cave/lech.htm I accredit AnonMoos who chooses what stays and what doesnt in Wikipedia. I move we ban Wikipedia. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Elijah Michael (talk • contribs) 15:35, 13 February 2007 (UTC).


 * I put a citation on each of the paragraphs taken from that site. At this point I am assuming the copying is allowed because it is from a work published by an agency of the US government that is in the public domain. Burlywood 18:50, 19 March 2007 (UTC)


 * On examination, that National Park site says that any material which is not specifically copyrighted is in the public domain. So, it's ok to post in Wiki. However they haven't updated that page in three and a half years, and a lot of exploration has happened since then. I was hoping the Wiki article would be more up-to-date! Alpha Ralpha Boulevard 01:01, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

Image
Is there any information regarding the legitimacy of the current image from the BBC? I suspect it is not licensed although I doubt the BBC would seek to have it removed. We should try to find other images that may be used with more legal saftey. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Rob cowie (talk • contribs)
 * Well it's a fair use image from a TV program. If you have a non-fair use image that would be better of course. I looked around and could not find any, so I took a screenshot from the program and uploaded it. I think this is ok, if it's not then I'll remove it again.  jaco plane  22:39, 28 March 2006 (UTC)
 * To clarify, the fair use disclaimer states the image can be used "for identification and critical commentary on the station ID or program and its contents". Since the Lechuguilla Cave is a large part of the contents of the program I assumed it would be ok to use it in this article.  jaco plane  22:45, 28 March 2006 (UTC)
 * That's cool. I agree with you. what I should have asked is, does US Copyright Law apply to images whose copyright belongs to non-US entities? Rob cowie 18:31, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

Cave name
Hi there Does anyone know how Lechugilla Cave got it's name?
 * Good point. Addition made under Place Names. Ian mckenzie 23:05, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

How about Snow White's Passage? The write assumes it may have something to do with it actually being white, even though it's not any more white than the others. They say it's a long horizontal walkway. Maybe it's not that vertical, but it seems to me that they were going for the feeling of "This is what a human would feel most comfortable with, rather than a small, cramped, uneven area that only a dwarf would be comfortable in." Has anyone actually been there that goes to Wikipedia? ElijahD 00:54, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

Hi everyone: Pjcaver here. I've been caving in "Lech" since 1989 after it was "opened" in 1986. My first trip there was actually a National Park Service trip in 1971. Interestingly, the Park Service write up about our trip back then was that "Lechuguilla is a small and disappointing little cave". I've given Bobby Crisman (assistant superintendent at the time and the person who wrote the review) a raft of the stuff for his erroneous judgement of this spectacular 120 + mile long cave.

The cave's entrance is located in Lechuguilla Canyon, a small, dry tributary canyon to the much larger nearby Walnut Canyon, one of the major drainages in the eastern end of the Guadalupe Mountains. This is likely why it is called Lechuguilla Cave. It was called Lechuguilla Cave back in 1971, so its naming preceeded that date, though I don't know when it was first called that.

Snow White's Passage is probably an appropriate name. It is a nice, winding snowy white passage for a good portion of its length. It ends at the top of the Little White Bastard which leads to the Southwest Branch of the cave and The Chandelier Ballroom. This area was the first one I visited back in 89 during which our team discovered The Pearlsian Gulf, a spectacular room, as many of them are throughout the cave. My brother Dave was the discoverer of this area when he climbed up a snow white tube and broke into Big Sky Country, up Serac Pass into The Pearlsian Gulf around 1 AM. Quite the discovery for a first day's exploration.

Pjcaver (talk) 03:42, 19 January 2008 (UTC)

Weasel Words?
Why was this article tagged as using weasel words? Aside from the descriptions of the individual "rooms" I see very little content that isn't cold facts. --JD79 17:29, 7 May 2007 (UTC)


 * I was wondering about that as well, but if you read the entire article you do find more than one passage that seems to want to add subjective "wow-appeal" to the subject (I think that goes to what is meant by weasel-words). Some examples: "it is most famous for ...", "one of the world's most exciting cave explorations", "one of the finest known caves on the planet", "never-before-seen beauty", "A fantastic array of rare speleothems", "Scientific exploration has been exciting ...". The article probably just needs some pruning! - Bevo 20:54, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

Sorry 'bout the delay... Had a lot of homework to do this week. Anyway, I was the one who added the tag, so I figure it should be me who points out the weasel words. So, here they are:

From the first paragraph of the intro:
 * "unparalleled formations"

From the third paragraph of the section "Exploration history":
 * "exciting cave explorations"
 * "finest known caves on the planet"
 * "never-before-seen beauty"

From the first paragraph of the section "Geology":
 * "fantastic array"

I'm pretty sure there are some others elsewhere, but I don't have the time to find or correct them. Maybe you guys could go find better words to replace them or remove them altogether? Cheers. BeefRendang 07:17, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

Trade Route?
Does "Trade Route" mean something different in spelunking than its usual meaning? P.S. I wouldn't want to see the descriptions over-edited, the names fit an American West tradition of humorous descriptive place names. It should be intelligible, though. Cuvtixo (talk) 17:43, 9 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Little Lake Lechuguilla - This was the second significant body of water found in the cave and was particularly important due to its location along a trade route.

Place Names
So What? In my opinion the long section about place names adds nothing to the article. The article would be better without it. "Be brief." - Kurt Vonnegut.Senor Cuete (talk) 22:18, 28 February 2008 (UTC)Senor Cuete
 * I concur with Senor Cuete. This section also does not cite verifiable sources for where this info comes from. It may be original research. I tagged it as an unreferenced section. Others may want to weigh in on weather this is truly OR or not. In any case, it does seem much too long and unencyclopedic for Wikepedia. It seems to be good info that one would expect to find in a source document that the WP article might reference. N2e (talk) 15:05, 3 March 2008 (UTC)
 * I wouldn't read it even if I encountered it while reading a book like Lechuguilla Jewell of the Underground. It's not interesting and it's overkill in the wiki article. The cave is horribly over-named anyway. I vote to nuke it entirely.Senor Cuete (talk) 02:43, 4 March 2008 (UTC)Senor Cuete


 * OK so I bit the bullet and deleted the entire section. Are there any arguments for its inclusion? Ian mckenzie (talk) 06:13, 23 October 2008 (UTC)


 * I deleted it again today. It sux. Senor Cuete (talk) 18:10, 25 March 2009 (UTC)Senor Cuete

Third Longest?
According to: http://www.caverbob.com/usalong.htm this is the 4th longest and not the 3rd longest cave in the US.

Is there a source for the statement in Wikipedia or should this be changed?

Daniel (01 September 2009) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.178.55.217 (talk) 12:31, 1 September 2009 (UTC)


 * Done. Thanks for the reference. WTucker (talk) 13:47, 2 September 2009 (UTC)

Current events
I keep expecting the US National Park to be updated with new estimates of length, but it's been years. Has exploring stopped? 98.210.208.107 (talk) 03:27, 8 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Nope. Takes time. Alfie  ↑↓ © 10:27, 23 June 2013 (UTC)

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Derek Bristol, et.al
What these guys did in exploring Oz was great but why does it merit special mention while other specific explorations don't? This paragraph should go. Senor Cuete (talk) 17:42, 17 April 2018 (UTC)

BBC reference
Although obviously the linked articles are valid, the comment "The claim in the BBC documentary series Planet Earth that these bacteria do not derive any energy from the sun is incorrect," seems disingenuous at best, because clearly it means direct energy from the sun, and pointing out that atmospheric oxygen generated elsewhere by photosynthesis is somewhat misleading. The cave obviously isn't a closed system, but the claim in the documentary is still valid. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 46.16.2.29 (talk) 07:45, 12 May 2022 (UTC)