Talk:Leeds 13

Miscellany
Pollock (2020) contradicts other sources in the following details: Pollock is the only known source for: Pollock's list of Leeds 13 members contains: All a bit surprising as Pollock was assisted by two Leeds 13 members and their archives.
 * duration of the Going Places holiday is given as two weeks while all other known sources say either six nights or one week
 * name of the fourth end-of-year exhibition is given as both The Final Show and The Final Degree Show while all other known sources say The Degree Show
 * Anderson taking the third year (1997–1998) out but still graduating with her peers in the fourth and final year (1998–1999), see University of Leeds Press Office (1999)
 * one of the students having a baby in the final year and the group providing childcare
 * hand painting postage stamps on the Going Places postcards, Atkinson (1998) mentions the forged franking mark but not the stamp
 * duplicates: Crossley and Jones
 * omissions: Laura Baxter, Sarah Leach and Emma Robertson compared to Leeds 13 (1998b) p. 13 and University of Leeds Press Office (1999)
 * a misspelling: Hershell should be Hersey

Arnhemcr (talk) 21:20, 29 March 2024 (UTC)

I'd be interested in hearing from anyone with reliable sources for: Arnhemcr (talk) 01:29, 9 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Leeds 13's participation in A Christmas Pudding for Henry: the only known source was self-published by the ACPfH organiser, reference name van Heeswijk (1999)
 * Floiner (1999): the only known source was self-published, reference name Leeds 13 (2009a)
 * A Play on Grass (2000): the only known source was self-published, reference name Leeds 13 (2009b). The official website has a flyer for APoG (http://leeds13.pbworks.com/w/file/16040167/play%20on%20grass.jpg) but no photos of the completed park.

Post-GA wish list: Arnhemcr (talk) 20:26, 1 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Image: over to Leeds 13 and its members, as the copyright holder(s), for an image to illustrate the article. Happy to help with the Uploading images process if needed.
 * Framed exhibition: find a reliable source for whether Leeds 13 were at Decima Gallery's Framed exhibition in October 1998 and if so what they showed.
 * Going Places pre-reveal newspaper articles from Leeds 13: Publicity Outputs:
 * Chris Benfield. (19 May 1998). Sun, sangria—and the meaning of Art... Yorkshire Post, p. 3.
 * Chris Brooke. (19 May 1998). Is this really high art? Or simply a student trip to the Costas at our expense? The Daily Mail, p. 3. received 2023-06-07
 * Emma Jay. (19 May 1998). Piss Artists. The Sport, p. 7.
 * Paul Wilkinson. (19 May 1998). Students’ art was in the right place. The Times, p. 3. received 2023-05-03

Scans of Leeds 13 pages in Royal College of Art (1999) received from Clark Art Institute Library and content added into article. Arnhemcr (talk) 08:10, 29 March 2023 (UTC)

Found a scan of the cover and metadata for Royal College of Art (1999) at specific object whose owner David Platzker was happy to have that page linked from this article. Arnhemcr (talk) 05:36, 23 March 2023 (UTC)

I'd be interested in hearing from anyone who has a copy of Royal College of Art (1999): to see if there are details of Leeds 13's contribution to this exhibition. Arnhemcr (talk) 03:39, 19 March 2023 (UTC)
 * From A to B (and back again) : a publication to accompany the exhibition Go Away: Artists and Travel : Royal College of Art Galleries, 17 April-9 May 1999, OCLC 41420954

I'd be interested in hearing from anyone who could put any Leeds 13 photographs into the public domain to brighten the article up. Arnhemcr (talk) 05:37, 13 March 2023 (UTC)

Photos of Leeds 13 pages in Glinkowski (2000) received from the author and content added into the article. Arnhemcr (talk) 00:27, 8 March 2023 (UTC)

I'd be interested in hearing from anyone who has copies of these articles to complete the set of newspapers fooled by the Going Places holiday story: and the content in Paul Glinkowski. (2000). A BBC introduction to modern and contemporary art., BBC Studios Learning, pp. 35-36. Thanks! Arnhemcr (talk) 03:44, 26 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Chris Benfield. (19 May 1998). Sun, sangria—and the meaning of Art... Yorkshire Post, p. 3.
 * Chris Brooke. (19 May 1998). Is this really high art? Or simply a student trip to the Costas at our expense? The Daily Mail, p. 3.
 * Emma Jay. (19 May 1998). Piss Artists. The Sport, p. 7.
 * Paul Wilkinson. (19 May 1998). Students’ art was in the right place. The Times, p. 3.

Added the Infobox. Added sections Going Places (1998) Ongoing response and After graduation (2000). Arnhemcr (talk) 09:20, 17 February 2023 (UTC)

I've completely rewritten Going Places (1998) with references. Arnhemcr (talk) 04:01, 8 January 2023 (UTC)

I also think this page is underwhelming:


 * funds for staging the end of year exhibition are widely reported as GBP 1,800 including over 1,000 from the Leeds [Student] Union not "thousands of pounds"
 * GBP 1,126 from LUU, 50 from Myles Dutton, the only other donor identified in the media, and an amount that varies from nothing to GBP 1,600 depending on which newspaper report you read
 * Leeds 13 documents that I've read don't mention YBA, and YBAers Damien Hurst and The Chapman Brothers both had work exhibited in Leeds 13's second joint project The Degree Show (1999) - fixed 2022-12-14
 * from what I've read the main aim of Going Places was to do something outside the generally accepted bounds of contemporary art to get the media and society thinking about where the boundary lies; the secondary aim was to show how the media pick up stories from other media, combine them with stereotypes and present the whole as the truth without necessarily doing the checks that society might expect. If the Leeds Student journalists had spotted the inconsistencies planted in the photos (taken over a longer time period and wider set of places than a week in the Costa del Sol would allow) then they wouldn't have broken the story.
 * The Degree Show (1999) isn't covered - fixed 2022-12-05 then rewritten after reading the scans of newspaper clippings on the official website
 * references are all behind paywalls - adding references from The Guardian, a rarity amongst UK national newspapers as it doesn't restrict access to articles
 * external links to the exhibition website and final article are broken; the exhibition website is accessible on The Wayback Machine - fixed 2022-12-05

Arnhemcr (talk) 20:00, 1 December 2022 (UTC)

I plan to edit and add the content below. This group of artists gained national media coverage and prompted a debate about the nature of truth in the media. Please read on.

Going Places (1998) is the first-and best known-work by The Leeds 13. The project involved a staged trip to Malaga, ostensibly paid for by a grant, that was presented as an end-of-year show. The work went on to generate significant media coverage of both the holiday story and the subsequent revelation that it was staged.

At the outset, the group applied for an art grant from the University of Leeds Students Union. To be eligible for the money they had to be an official student society, so they all joined the Arts Society and voted in two of their group as the chairman and treasurer. As members of the Arts Society, they submitted a funding proposal for a 'conventional' art exhibition. The Students Union awarded them £1126.

The group initially publicised their project as an exhibition called 'Going Places' that would take place at East Street Studios in Leeds city centre. In the week prior to the opening their tutor Terry Atkinson received a postcard from Spain apparently from the group, apologising that they were unable to attend their weekly seminar with him.

Around sixty guests arrived on the opening night. The large gallery space was empty apart from a large bowl of sangria in the middle of the room and some flamenco music playing in the background. An airhostess then emerged into the space. Using a megaphone, she invited everyone to make their way outside where a bus was waiting for them. The visitors were taken to Leeds and Bradford Airport and instructed to await an incoming flight from Malaga. As they made their way to the arrivals gate, the visitors saw the students coming through customs, apparently arriving back from a holiday in Malaga.

The students recounted stories about their week in the sun. They brandished forged travel documents and staged photographs that 'proved' they had been to Spain. The story spread by word of mouth, until the group took photographs to the Leeds Student Newspaper and stated that the holiday was a collective art project. The story was then picked up by the national press, televison and radio. The name 'Leeds 13' was created by the media at this time, but the group subsequently chose to use this moniker for themselves. In the absense of a definitive concensus, both 'The Leeds 13' and 'Leeds 13' are equally acceptable.

The story of 'Going Places' was first published nationally in the Sunday Mirror, and on the following Wednesday the Leeds 13 were invited onto Radio 4’s Today programme to justify their actions. In response to the accusations of a relatively hostile panel of commentators, the students announced that the holiday was in fact an elaborate simulation; the photos, tickets and suntans were all fakes. The turquoise Mediterranean that featured so heavily in the holidays snaps was in fact the freezing North Sea just along the coast from Scarborough. The Spanish blue skies were created with a lens filter, and the sun-kissed swimming pool – the iconic symbol of a holiday abroad – was actually located in suburban Leeds.

The nightclub photos were taken in Leeds and London. The group had managed to secure various Spanish artefacts – bottles, beer cans, crisp packets, castanets, red roses, posters etc – and displayed them as conspicuously as possible in the foreground of the staged pictures. The postcard that they sent to their tutor was also doctored. A postmark depicting the appropriate date was painstakingly forged by hand onto an original Spanish postcard - authentic stamp included - and this was then slipped into the University’s internal postal system in the middle of the night.

The students never left the country; instead they spent the week holed up behind dark curtains - ignoring the doorbell and phone - sunning themselves on a hired sunbed that they hid in their cellar. If they did have to venture outside, they would wear balaclavas and hooded tops for fear of being spotted.

The group never intended to spend the money, and as soon as they revealed that the holiday was a simulation they returned the funds to the Students Union. A second wave of media interest was generated by their announcement on Radio 4. Channel 4 news, among many others, staged a studio debate called “But is it Art?” and Germaine Greer championed the Leeds 13 on “Have I got News for You?” The project has now featured in many art publications and textbooks. 'Going Places' has provoked many reactions both positive and negative, but It continues to exist as an evolving discussion surrounding art and mediation.
 * Now you really need to add this info + references to the article. E. Fokker (talk) 23:38, 4 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Plenty of ref from reliable sources seem to exist. E. Fokker (talk) 23:50, 4 November 2010 (UTC)

"the reliability of this source is difficult to assess"
The editor (though not the normal reader) of this article will encounter:


 * {{Blue| Through weekly seminars with their tutor and artist Terry Atkinson, they formed a collective for studio practice later known as Leeds 13.{{cite web [...] }}

(whose layout I've fiddled with, but which I haven't otherwise altered).

If I understand correctly, the writer is conceding that the cited source may be (amiably) fraudulent. If this is a non-negligible possibility, shouldn't the (non-editing) reader be warned of this? (Or do I misunderstand?) -- Hoary (talk) 23:11, 14 March 2023 (UTC)


 * Hi Hoary, thanks for your feedback. I have struggled with this source. On reflection, I'll change it to something like "A report on the hoax attributed to the group's tutor and artist Terry Atkinson said they formed ..." then drop the comment. I might try and get in touch with Atkinson to ask whether it's genuine, hoping that won't be seen as original research. Arnhemcr (talk) 22:38, 17 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Hi Hoary, I rewrote it "Through weekly seminars with their tutor and artist Terry Atkinson, they formed a collective for studio practice later known as Leeds 13, according to a report on the project for the media published hours after hoax was revealed and attributed to Atkinson." then removed the comment in the reference. Thanks for your interest and reorganising the Talk page. Arnhemcr (talk) 23:00, 17 March 2023 (UTC)

{{Talk:Leeds 13/GA1}}

Reference query
Hello, could someone look at reference 5 as I suspect that the names are reversed (wrong fields). Keith D (talk) 11:21, 27 October 2023 (UTC)