Talk:Legality of polygamy/Archive 1

Request
Please leave all talk before editing templets, as everything is just so that it arranges perfectly. It took me awhile to get the codes to fight just right. Thank you. Wikitiki666 (talk) 20:16, 27 March 2009 (UTC)

Redirect
I redirected the link here, as I feel that legality of polygamy is the more appropriate title. Camillex555 (talk) 06:23, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

Duplicate templates
Why are there two templates with pretty much identical information? jnestorius(talk) 15:36, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

Status in Germany
Hi there, AFAIK polygamic mariages are recognised in Germany (but of course if you try to marry your second spouse within the state you are in trouble - if caught). There was a case where a man from Morocco was living in Germany for decades with one of his wives. She died and he applied for widowers allowance. He claimed that he was a widower (what is neither really correct nor really wrong). Since German forms do not ask the questions "How many spouses you got left?" and all the papers were ok he was granted widowers allowance. His second wife moved then to Germany. Pension insurance got word of that and stopped payment. Husband/Widower went to court and won. Reason: He should not have got widowers allowance in the first place, BUT: the pension insurance cannot just stop the payment if it had been granted by an administration act. A proper administration act to cancel the payment was required. And they should have asked about any "remaining wives".

Source: http://lexetius.com/1998,368 BSG, Urteil vom 7. 7. 1998 - B 5 RJ 58/ 97 R

Fazit: You can not marry a 2nd spouse in the state, but if you have one already it is ok. And Polygamy is not compatible with local legislation.

regards

Bang Olafson —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.163.193.226 (talk) 10:06, 28 August 2009 (UTC)

Sweden
According to one of the biggest newspapers in Sweden, polygamy is legal in Sweden if the marriage is done abroad in a country where polygamy is legal. It is a paragraph in the law from 1904 that says that a marriage that is legal abroad is also legal here in Sweden.

Aftonbladet Theana (talk) 12:34, 24 August 2010 (UTC)

Libya
I'm curious about the status of the law in the table of legislation concerning Libya. The table has the bill being signed and made law, but the link states that Ghaddafi tore up the bill and stormed out of the room, leading one to believe the bill was NOT signed. Anyone know for sure? Pfranson (talk) 15:44, 31 August 2011 (UTC)

Non-Muslims in Arab countries
In Saudi Arabia and other Gulf states, is it legal for non-Muslims to marry polygamously, ie - are such marriages recognised by the state as legal? It doesn't make clear. - Rí Lughaid (talk) 03:06, 24 February 2012 (UTC)

Polyandry
This article isn't helpful if you want to know what governments offer polyandrous marriages. As has been noted before on this talk page, there are rumors that Canada does. You might as well rename this article to “Legal status of polygyny.” EIN (talk) 02:36, 14 November 2012 (UTC)


 * Agreed. I cleaned up portions but there is a lot of confusion in the article about polygamy vs. polygyny and it could do with someone going through and checking all sources to find out which applies in each case. Of course, the sources could be equally confused and I found one very unreliable source that should never have been cited in a Wikipedia article. ~ Excesses ~  (talk) 19:15, 24 June 2013 (UTC)

Canada
The reference hearing is over. But it will most likely be appealed. here is a quote; "Bauman limited his definition of marriage to unions that are sanctioned in some way by a civil, religious or other authority. Multi-partner common-law relationships such a polyamorists, who claim their relationships are consensual and egalitarian, wouldn't be covered under the law. That could change if the people involved have a marriage ceremony or claim to be sanctioned by a higher authority."

reference B.C. court to rule on polygamy law; appeal almost certain | CTV British Columbia www.ctvbc.ctv.ca

the map should show Canada as grey; polygamy legal, not recognized — Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.88.23.132 (talk) 18:36, 4 December 2011 (UTC)
 * I think that it is important that wikipedia articles represent matters as they are (according to reliable sources), not as they should be. The Canada section had some misunderstandings, or possibly wishful thinking: Where a source stated that there had been no successful persecution of this "offence" for 60 years, our article interpreted this thus:
 * However, the law banning polygamy is not enforced by the government. As of January 2009, no person has been prosecuted in over sixty years.
 * This is a clear deviation from the source. "No successful persecution" just means that whenever the government tried to enforce the law, it failed to get a convict ruling.
 * I remedied this, and added a presentation of the recent court ruling (including the information that it might be appealed). However, IMHO, this development makes the section about Canada unproportionately large.  I think it is time to start a separate main article Polygamy in Canada, containing both this, and more of the history, and details about the recent Bountiful case.  Then, the Canada section of Legal status of polygamy could be shrinked somewhat again.
 * However, neither being a Canadian or in any other way an expert on 'Canadia', I don't think I'm the best person to start that article. JoergenB (talk) 16:47, 10 December 2011 (UTC)

In Canada, it appears that you _can_ have two spouses in Saskatchewan if you get married, separate, and begin living common law with someone else. So you would have one common law spouse and one separated married spouse. In Alberta, you can have an "adult interdependent partner" who is not necessarily the same as your common law spouse. (e.g., You can have a family member as your adult interdependent partner, but if you live with your baby's daddy, he would be your common law partner for tax purposes, since Revenue Canada doesn't recognize family members as common law partners.) Needless to say, there is a need for some standardization between the feds (who have no formal definition of common law, except for Revenue Canada's definition) and the provinces. If a lawyer out there wants to clarify any point on which I'm mistaken, I'd welcome more input. Tara Zieminek (talk) 01:01, 1 July 2013 (UTC)

Legality of polygamy map
The classifications on the map are misleading with respect to states where polygamy is legal under customary law but not udner civil law, e.g. Botswana, Mozambique, Zimbabwe: the map shows such states as "Polygamy generally illegal, but practice not fully criminalised". This is not accurate - the correct position, certainly for Zimbabwe, as that there are two types of marriage which are recognised under law and polygamy is legal in a customary marriage and illegal in a civil marriage. That is not "generally illegal" - in Zimbabwe 11 percent of married women are in polygamous marriages - and polygamy is legal for all marriages which have been contracted under customary law, even if in practice a customary marriage is monogamous. Babakathy (talk) 06:20, 14 November 2013 (UTC)

Polygamy in India
The template states that in India only muslims can practice polygamy. That is not true. Certain Scheduled Tribes can also practice the same. Link: http://www.hindu.com/2001/02/16/stories/0216000g.htm 216.75.212.7 (talk) 19:04, 20 February 2014 (UTC) Adi

Map color scheme
I understand that it is difficult to be objective in map color schemes, but this map seems to be pretty blatantly biased from a liberal, Western perspective. (I mean liberal in the broad philosophical sense, not the American sense.) At the very least, I feel that blue should signify legality and black or red should signify illegality. This map, however, has the countries that have banned polygamy in blue (signifying a form of freedom) with countries with legal polygamy in black (signifying a form of oppression). I know this might seem pedantic, but I think it's a legitimate issue to raise and discuss. Michipedian (talk) 02:38, 1 March 2014 (UTC)

Links
>> Kenyan parliament passes polygamy law(Lihaas (talk) 20:47, 21 March 2014 (UTC)).

Israel
While polygamy is illegal in Israel, it's common among Bedouins http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/news/state-program-to-tackle-problem-of-polygamy-in-bedouin-community-1.242837 TFighterPilot (talk) 17:24, 12 January 2015 (UTC)

External links modified
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North America: USA: bigamy vs. polygamy
My understanding is that bigamy (marriage to more than one spouse) is illegal in all of the USA, but polygamy (living as if you are married to more than one person but only actually being married to one) is legal in many parts of the USA. E.g., the Utah "Sister Wives" case. --zandperl (talk) 21:18, 1 March 2016 (UTC)


 * That's not true. Polygamy is illegal along with bigamy. Cohabitation is legal; perhaps that's the word you were looking for. --92slim (talk) 08:26, 11 July 2016 (UTC)--92slim (talk) 08:26, 11 July 2016 (UTC)

Bhutan
Why is Bhutan listed amongst countries that don't recognize polygamous marriages? Though not a very common, the previous ruler [still alive] King Jigme Singye Wangchuck has four wives, and several senior civil servants have more than one legal wife. I personally know of several others in that situation. There was a report in the Bhutanese national paper, Kuensel, only about a week ago of a someone not standing for re-election as he is too busy looking after his sixteen children and three wives. “Being a father of 16 children, and husband of three wives, and three more children on the way, providing education is difficult,” AFAIK to marry an additional wife one is supposed to have a legal no objection certificate (NOC) from existing spouse(s). However divorce could be costly for someone with more than one spouse as each ex-wife would be entitled to a substantial portion of the husband's property and earnings. Chris Fynn (talk) 16:20, 10 July 2016 (UTC)


 * I have no idea about Bhutan, don't even know where it is. If you can find a reliable secondary source that proves polygamy is legal there, please do add it. --92slim (talk) 08:26, 11 July 2016 (UTC)
 * We already have a small article on Polygamy in Bhutan, which states that polygamy is legal in the country, provided that the marriage is consensual. It has sources. Dimadick (talk) 14:47, 11 July 2016 (UTC)

Polyandry
The article currently says "Polyandry is legal in virtually every state in the world." I think this may be the result of multiple edits leaving a mistake, or vandalism. Polyandry is an arrangement in which a woman is married to plural men simultaneously. I believe that this is prohibited at least as widely as arrangements in which a man may have plural wives. Am I misunderstanding something, or maybe simply wrong? Seeking clarification. Pete unseth (talk) 17:47, 26 October 2016 (UTC)


 * The article was temporarily vandalized by an anonymous IP editor. I have reverted his edits. --92slim (talk) 03:39, 27 October 2016 (UTC)

Distortion of facts
I have reverted all edits by User:Kamalthebest, because they were a gross distortion of the data. A couple of notes:

because of this.
 * Whether the constitution defines marriage between "a man and a woman" doesn't mean that polygamy is illegal (criminalized) or not practiced. Lots of countries were in the wrong section
 * Illegal and criminalized is essentially the same thing. The not criminalized ones then fall under illegal but de jure practiced.
 * Many countries only and specifically recognize polygamy for Muslims - this should be noted in a separate section.
 * "Customary law" is not "civil law" therefore
 * "80 countries" don't legally recognize polygamy, since customary law is not binding everywhere.
 * "Polygamy recognized if performed abroad" section was completely false. None of these countries Kamal included have a law that recognizes polygamy performed abroad, and the cases are related to child custody matters or benefits, not recognition of polygamy. In fact, the UK benefits law is being phased out (if not already).

Among many other problems, these are pretty sufficient for not using Kamal's vastly sweeped version which simply misrepresented the data.

--92slim (talk) 02:38, 10 January 2017 (UTC)


 * Are there no countries which consider the second marriage merely invalid, but not criminal?
 * Child custody laws and child support obligations in most western countries has nothing to do with the marital status of the parents to each other (either at the time of conception, or later) anyways. Whether you get your wife pregnant, or a woman you had a one-night-stand with, the laws on child custody and support are the same, are they not?
 * Spousal maintenance and division of property are issues. The new U.K. legislation you refer to only addresses eligibility for government benefits such as social security and pensions, as I understand it. It does not change how courts decide issues of spousal maintenance obligations, or division of marital assets, or inheritance laws, in the case of a polygamous marriage entered into by a UK resident who was domiciled in a jurisdiction which allows polygamy at the time the marriage(s) took place. Correct me if I'm wrong on this point. Eliyohub (talk) 14:59, 25 January 2017 (UTC)

Malaysia?
Malaysia is listed under "Countries that only recognize polygamous marriages for Muslims". The note states "These countries are included separately because they have a non-Muslim majority (emphasis mine) and specific legislation aimed only at Muslims." But according to Religion in Malaysia, Malaysia is 61% Muslim. It may restrict polygamy to Muslims only, but it clearly has a Muslim majority (the other countries in this list are not), so does it belong in this list? Eliyohub (talk) 14:54, 25 January 2017 (UTC)

Picture of bigamy laws throughout the United States
✅ The picture that lists the bigamy/cohabitation laws of the United States is highly outdated/inaccurate. For example, in Michigan cohabitation is illegal, despite not being shown as such on this map, and in Florida, the law on cohabitation has been repealed. The current laws need to be researched and and this file needs to be updated. 67.141.8.85 (talk) 18:33, 16 April 2017 (UTC)

External links modified
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Requested move 30 May 2017

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the move request was: page moved. No objections raised and nomination is in line with Wikipedia policy. (non-admin closure) TonyBallioni (talk) 15:26, 7 June 2017 (UTC)

Legal status of polygamy → Legality of polygamy – I would like for Wikipedia articles to be consistent in their use of the terms "Legal status of X" or "Legality of X". Currently, I have noticed more articles with the "Legality of X" format, so I would like to move this article to "Legality of polygamy" accordingly. Michipedian (talk) 20:41, 30 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Support I agree with this not just because of the precedent amongst the other articles, but because I hear "legality of X" much more than "legal status of X". Emir of Wikipedia (talk) 21:07, 30 May 2017 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

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Move "South Africa" from "not recognize" to "recognize "
I propose moving "South Africa" from heading: Countries that do not recognize polygamous marriages to heading: Countries that recognize polygamous marriages The reason for this move is that there is a statute (law) which recognizes customary marriages (which are polygamous) in South Africa as legal marriages. Thus, South African law does recognize polygamous marriages.

The Recognition of Customary Marriages Act, 1998 (Act No. 120 of 1998) is a South African statute in terms of which marriages performed under African customary law, including polygynous marriages, are recognised as legal marriages. Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recognition_of_Customary_Marriages_Act,_1998 Thanks Dietssa Dietssa (talk) 11:23, 13 January 2020 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dietssa (talk • contribs) 11:20, 13 January 2020 (UTC)