Talk:Legion of Doom (hacker group)

Tone/Neutrality Issues
This really doesn't read like an encyclopedic article. It's full of dramatic language, lacks citations and has problems with both tone and an apparent lack of a neutral, factual point of view. Antonine (talk) 12:46, 2 August 2017 (UTC)


 * I know this is 6 years old but my god I can’t read this article and the voice it is in. 100.34.214.6 (talk) 03:54, 31 January 2024 (UTC)

membership
Compu-phreak is absent from this list. He should most definitely be listed, as he was a very early member from Florida. I was introduced to both he and Marauder (separately) at around the same time, in the early 1980's, by phone. They had both taken an interest in the Long Island, NY, BBS scene, of which I was a part (which was also where some of the first official and sponsored LOD BBSes were located). There were others I knew through Compu-Phreak who were active in the Florida phreak scene, such as Dr. Nibblemaster. We all spoke frequently. I don't remember if he was in LOD or LOH for a time (or maybe BSF), but I would tend to think so. Also concerning Compu-phreak, he almost took over as sysop of Catch-22 (LOD's main BBS for a time, located in Massachusetts) when Silver Spy took the BBS down to go to college. Compu-Phreak and I 3-way-called Silver Spy with the idea, since it was such a great BBS (the login sequence was disguised as a VAX cluster), and it had very high-quality content and discussions. It would also turn out to be one of the last BBSes where original LOD members were actively posting. For reasons I can't recall, it never came to be.

As far as Dead Lord and Lord Digital, Bill from RNOC introduced them into LOD at a time when Lex was "estranged" and somewhat less active, and RNOC was de facto leader for a time. They were both active members of the NYC hack/phreak scene going back to the old TAP meetings. They also started Mindvox in the early 90's, which was my very first job as sysadmin.

If the gentleman below is in fact Lucifer 666, what's up. You're also missing from this latest list for some reason. I remember speaking with you on 3-way years ago with RNOC. So many stories, so little time.

Phiber Optik

Thanks Mark, I just added myself. By the way, sadly, Dr. NibbleMaster passed away last year. Vinny actually made me aware of it. Very sad. - Chuck Poole aka CompuPhreak — Preceding unsigned comment added by Chuckpoole (talk • contribs) 13:17, 25 February 2018 (UTC)

Glad to see you back on the list, Chuck. Really sorry about Dr. NibbleMaster. Those were some good times.

Phiber Optik / Mark Abene (talk) 02:02, 14 March 2018 (UTC)

membership
I believe Phiber Optik and Dead Lord were in LOD. Dead Lord was a well known hacker/phreak from the 1980's...I don't know why you would say he wasn't.sssssssssssssssssssssssdfasdfsdfsf

I think Lex is the end authority on who was/wasn't.  We really need to ask him if there is a discrepency. I don't know if I can reach him, probably not.

L666

Edit: You can reach him easily. Just look for Vincent Gelormine (middle name Louis) in Florida. He runs a couple websites and startups. Also, He goes absolutely insane when you call him Lex on the phone or in person because he's still a paranoid. I highly suggest you partake, if you have the means. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.13.159.189 (talk) 08:02, 10 May 2011 (UTC)

article name
There's really no need for "hacking" to be capitalized in the article's name. I'll change it back later. --Myles Long 04:10, 21 February 2006 (UTC)

membership
Phiber Optik, Lord Digital, and Dead Lord were never in LOD. Dead Lord wasn't even a hacker or a phreak.

''- Phiber was at the very end, when Goggans was running most of the group. About that time, Mark was accused of giving LOD resources/mentoring Julio and John Lee.''

All info I took is available on the internet. Lord Digital and Dead Lord are both listed as members by the group's founder Lex Luthor, in Computer Underground Digest. They're listed the same way in members of LOD published in CUD issues and Mindvox logs. Also where LODCOM was selling those history of underground BBS buffers.

Computer underground Digest Sun May 30 1993 Volume 5 : Issue 39 ISSN 1004-042X http://www.skepticfiles.org/hacker/cud539.htm

Computer underground Digest Sun Aug 22 1993 Volume 5 : Issue 64 ISSN 1004-042X http://www.skepticfiles.org/hacker/cud564.htm

Lord Digital is also intro'd as a LOD member in his Phrack Profile which has the intro by Erik Bloodaxe in a issue where Chris Goggans is the editor of Phrack.

I have no idea if Phiber Optik was ever a member or not, but at least two books seem to think so (Bruce Sterling's Hacker Crackdown and Joshua Quittner's Masters of deception) and out of all the things Chris Goggans has said about Abene, he's never said he was not a LOD member.

''- Chris also says it wasn't Minor Threat in that video he has of people breaking into a Central Office and riding around in the tape cart. Chris says a lot of things.'' 6Akira7 01:57, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

There is some confusion over membership, partly because Legion of Hackers was a sister group which had many overlapping members, hence the mention of LOD/H. Over time, LOH disappeared, with some members going into LOD. I'd say the Phrack listing is somewhat authoritative, but perhaps not entirely accurate. There were no membership cards or roster or whatever. 108.64.212.227 (talk) 22:10, 25 March 2012 (UTC)

+++ There's always been a question of who was in LOD and who was not. A document was published a while back, it should be available in various archives. I do not recall "Sundry" as being in the group. Also, at some point in the 80s Terminal Man was kicked out for destructive behavior. I also recall Karl Marx as being in the group, but maybe he was just a friend of the group. Hard to say. I recall a LOT more real names than appear here, but I am not so sure that I should put them in Wikipedia. There has also been a few unauthorized 'revivals' of the group, which might add to confusion about membership. These groups were stamped out.

''- There's that list that was in the LOD Technical Journal #4, but that was Vinnies "definitive" version. Then there's that list that got out that Craig Neidorf left on his uunet homedir that had the real name (and sometimes address/phone number) of every well known hacker of that time. I tend to trust Neidorfs list as theres less spin.''

Regarding the real names of the members who don't have public personas, heres a bunch of them: Agrajag The Prolonged - Keith M. Gabryelski, King Blotto - John Valescu (wasn't in LOD though), Randy Smith - Kevin Ramsdell, Silver Spy - Paul D. Abramson, The Videosmith - Ronnen Miller, Kerrang Khan - 	William Duncan Howard, Gary Seven - Gary Morgan, Carrier Culprit - Erik Case, Phantom Phreaker - Curt Richard Wilson, Doom Prophet - Craig Wilson, Prime Suspect - Craig A. Scott and Professor Falken - Matthew F. Caldwell. I'd add them in but it's a huge pain and I'm a terrible wiki editor.

What about ancillary members. There were many people who also were considered part of the group, but their interests may have been outside of say phreaking? Many crackers cracked software, were known somewhat, and in their cracked software would tag their work LOD? I believe there were many lists, but I think people were too smart to create "official lists" LOL If there was found such a thing it would have been used as evidence and arrests would have been greater. INMO — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.189.196.210 (talk) 13:38, 10 June 2015 (UTC)

67.175.46.127 (talk) 03:24, 5 October 2011 (UTC)

Comsec?
The question I have is, were Doc Holiday and Malefactor members of LOD? Phiber, Digital and Dead are missing in some of the official lists, but they appear in the 1990s and are validated by Lex and Bloodaxe, with Phiber I don't know but out of everything I've read about the great hacker war, there isn't anyone who has ever said Phiber wasn't a member. The peeps in Comsec don't appear anywhere in anything though.

''- Scott Chasin (Holiday) was in HFC as a joke, Kenyon Shulman (Malefactor)was never in LOD, but they were both "In the scene" and hung out with Goggans, who was the only one of Comsec that was in LOD/H.

- Fun fact: Kenyon Shulman is Dr. Carolyn Farb's son. Also, he's dead. '' —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.13.159.189 (talk) 17:36, 15 May 2011 (UTC)

Lex's former group and Sundry?
Compressed opening paragraphs, '30-35 members' is redundant, since the article lists all members by name. Adding knights of shadow reference, instead of 'group lex was a former member of'.

I can find nothing about "sundry" being in LOD anywhere online. I've left it alone for now, but it looks like another person editing themselves into LOD. Does "Michael Xavier - Solomon Grundy, Sundry" exist anywhere in relation to LOD the hacking group (not the comics ;-)? I can't find it using google or yahoo or any statement ever made by any of LOD's members.

Everything I know about LOD is from online documents, there were some LOD members that were missed and then edited into the article (control c), but Control C appears in at least some of the LOD listings. Was "Sundry" in LOD?

Lex Luthor signing off using KOS first, followed by LOD:

http://www.textfiles.com/hacking/hackcos.txt

6Akira7 18:14, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

Tabas motivations - just opinion
209.6.132.82 19:24, 6 December 2006 (UTC) The characterization of Mark Tabas does not belong in the article. That's a point of view, nothing more. I found Corey to be reckless, at times abusive, but I wouldn't feel that such observations are worthy of inclusion in an article which is supposed to be factual.

Logo?
209.6.132.82 19:23, 6 December 2006 (UTC) I don't ever recall a graphical logo for LOD. What is the provenance of the one listed? The only thing I recall is $LOD$. Of course, over twenty years memories do fade. I could be wrong.


 * No, your memory is absolutely correct. There was no LOD logo.  If any logo were used for this article, it should be a graphic of "$LOD$" or "LOD/H".  Unless there are any objections, I intend to remove this logo.  To my knowledge, it has no historical significance, and worse, may confuse the reader.   Any objections to removing the logo? Sliver 14:40, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

I need a FE hack
71.108.53.182 23:31, 20 April 2007 (UTC)i am searching for a hack of Fire Emblem 6. if anyone has one post a link to it on this website (tell me where it is).

- Just "No", OK? This is an encyclopedia article for a hacker group, what on earth makes you think you'd get an FE6 hack here?

Lex Luthor
Link directs to superman villain article, which has no mention of the hacker nor disambiguation

Size Split?
Split due to size.--Jax 0677 (talk) 00:15, 30 November 2012 (UTC)
 * What aspect of size are you looking at? The article seems to fall within article size guidelines. Running the script here, I get the following stats:
 * File size: 41 kB
 * Prose size (including all HTML code): 2844 B
 * References (including all HTML code): 69 B
 * Wiki text: 11 kB
 * Prose size (text only): 2361 B (407 words) "readable prose size"
 * References (text only): 3 B
 * Images: 52 kB


 * The article looks like it needs clean up and additional sources, I see several possibilities here. Dreadstar  ☥   02:40, 14 December 2012 (UTC)


 * Reply - I split the History after the fact, which got deleted before you wrote this.--Jax 0677 (talk) 03:39, 14 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Oh, I see. Yes, I looked at the deleted article and the history here before it was moved; understandable deletion.  A lot of material in there, most of it copyvio; although I'm sure some of it can be salvaged, rewritten and used here.    Dreadstar  ☥   03:58, 14 December 2012 (UTC)

When was the group active?
The article is internally inconsistent.

The first sentence of the article says that the group was active "from the 1980s to the late 1990s and early 2000."

The sidebar says the group's "extinction" was in 1990.

Which is correct? 108.64.118.44 (talk) 05:45, 29 November 2015 (UTC)

Add to that, that someone joined in '99 according to the memberlist

How do I make a new wiki page
Frank Drake deserves it. Mosssmh (talk) 07:49, 25 May 2022 (UTC)


 * Whether or not someone "deserves" a page in your opinion is, frankly, irrelevant. What matters is a) do they meet notability guidelines: WP:Notability, and more importantly whether or not there are verifiable, reliable sources for the subject.
 * This entire article is an absolute mess, and most of it needs to be deleted and re-written from scratch. If I had the time to do it, I'd start by wiping almost everything past the intro and starting by a search for reliable sources before writing a word.  M r A urelius R   Talk! 05:42, 1 January 2023 (UTC)