Talk:Legoland New York/GA1

GA Review
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Reviewer: Etriusus (talk · contribs) 03:40, 23 November 2022 (UTC)

This page has been sitting for a while. Let's get to reviewed. I have some WP:PROMOTIONAL concerns that I will elaborate on.

Sourcing

 * My immediate concern is that many of these sources are WP:PRIMARY and rather promotional in nature. I get that primary sources are sometimes a necessary evil but I fail to see how this many LegoLand sources can be justified. I can see justification for the individual companies' websites, for the ones that made the rides (I still need to review if they're promotional or not), and you can leave them until I say otherwise.

Copy-vios

 * Legoland New York Resort is a theme park in Goshen, New York, themed after the Lego toy brand. Consisting of seven themed lands on a property of.
 * Done. VarietyEditor (talk) 07:12, 25 November 2022 (UTC)


 * There are 15,000 real Lego models of different sizes made up of a total of 30 million Lego bricks.
 * Removed. VarietyEditor (talk) 07:12, 25 November 2022 (UTC)


 * Most lands and rides are found at most existing Legoland parks around the world. The lands are separated by a hill and each land connects to each other in a circle. Most lands are based on Lego toy themes, part of the largest Legoland ever built in the world.
 * Reworded and removed. VarietyEditor (talk) 07:12, 25 November 2022 (UTC)
 * This 3rd one might be a WP:MIRROR but I can't find anything definitive.

Images

 * One fair use image, properly filled out.
 * All others are under an acceptable license.

Prose
 Lead
 * Please review MOS:LEAD and MOS:CITELEAD.
 * Done. VarietyEditor (talk) 07:12, 25 November 2022 (UTC)


 * "seven themed lands" rather vague wording. Themed how so?
 * Done, moved information from previous sentence. VarietyEditor (talk) 07:12, 25 November 2022 (UTC)


 * " Lego enthusiasts" Not supported by the citation
 * Removed. VarietyEditor (talk) 07:12, 25 November 2022 (UTC)


 * "anyone with a ticket can enter the park" I would hope so. Cut statement, unnecessarily detailed.
 * Removed. VarietyEditor (talk) 07:12, 25 November 2022 (UTC)


 * " in decades" be more specific
 * Done, cited in history. VarietyEditor (talk) 07:12, 25 November 2022 (UTC)


 * 'Operating season' in the infobox has a citation needed tag
 * Removed. VarietyEditor (talk) 07:12, 25 November 2022 (UTC)

History
 * "It is owned by Merlin Entertainments[2] and is the ninth Legoland park worldwide. In the United States, it is the third park following Legoland California (1999), and Legoland Florida (2011)." Move this to the beginning of the history section
 * Done. VarietyEditor (talk) 07:12, 25 November 2022 (UTC)


 * 'proposed to construct' change to active voice
 * Done. VarietyEditor (talk) 07:12, 25 November 2022 (UTC)


 * 'But plans were immediately withdrawn due to immense resident concerns.' WP:PUFFERY and please don't start a sentence with a conjunction
 * Done. VarietyEditor (talk) 07:12, 25 November 2022 (UTC)


 * use on public services use of public services? overuse of public services.
 * Removed sentence. VarietyEditor (talk) 07:12, 25 November 2022 (UTC)


 * reconsidered in the town of Goshen, New York, because of the additional land available in the area, reword
 * Done. VarietyEditor (talk) 07:12, 25 November 2022 (UTC)


 * Everything past Shortly after, on October 25, 2017... needs to be rewritten/tightened up.
 * Done. VarietyEditor (talk) 07:12, 25 November 2022 (UTC)


 * a soft opening I don't see this in the cited source.
 * "This preview period, which Legoland New York’s public relations manager Matt Besterman called a “dress rehearsal,”" VarietyEditor (talk) 07:12, 25 November 2022 (UTC)
 * I figured it was in different wording. You can keep it. Etrius ( Us) 01:03, 28 November 2022 (UTC)


 * the park needed time to understand COVID precautions and workings of the park This doesn't make sense.
 * Removed. VarietyEditor (talk) 07:12, 25 November 2022 (UTC)


 * Concluding the initial construction period of the park that took 5 years, and cost $500 million dollars grammar
 * Done. VarietyEditor (talk) 07:12, 25 November 2022 (UTC)


 * Becoming the first new theme park in the northeast in decades sentence fragment
 * Done. VarietyEditor (talk) 07:12, 25 November 2022 (UTC)


 * Legoland New York announced that it would open a "water playground" in the Lego City section of the park in 2022 any update?
 * Update from Legoland on Facebook, added using WP:SOCIALMEDIA. VarietyEditor (talk) 07:41, 25 November 2022 (UTC)

Park layout
 * Very aggressive use of Lego Land sources. I did a quick google search and have found WP:SECONDARY sources that could work. These sources need to be cut and replaced.
 * Done. VarietyEditor (talk) 07:12, 25 November 2022 (UTC)


 * In addition to a fully themed Legoland Hotel built for kids and families and a yet to be constructed Sea Life. Sentence fragment
 * Reworded. VarietyEditor (talk) 07:12, 25 November 2022 (UTC)


 * it is made out of Lego. switched from plural to singular tense
 * Supposed to be describing a type of product Lego offers. VarietyEditor (talk) 07:12, 25 November 2022 (UTC)


 * The place that proves creativity with Lego bricks is endless promotional wording, and a sentence fragment
 * Reworded. VarietyEditor (talk) 07:12, 25 November 2022 (UTC)


 * A area that welcome guests into the world of Lego and contains many essentials for families and a theme park. promotional wording and grammar
 * Reworded. VarietyEditor (talk) 07:12, 25 November 2022 (UTC)


 * This ride is the first of its kind at a Legoland park promotional wording. The fact it is the first type of this amusement can be included but needs to be reworded for an encyclopedic tone.
 * Done. VarietyEditor (talk) 07:12, 25 November 2022 (UTC)


 * activate the shot Reword. This sentence as a whole may be unnecessary
 * Combined with other sentences. VarietyEditor (talk) 07:12, 25 November 2022 (UTC)


 * A kiddie coaster that has ride vehicles look like baby dragons made out of Lego. grammar
 * Done. VarietyEditor (talk) 07:12, 25 November 2022 (UTC)


 * that are dragons look like dragons
 * Done. VarietyEditor (talk) 07:12, 25 November 2022 (UTC)


 * Guests climb a spinning tower while seated using a rope make this its own sentence.
 * Done. VarietyEditor (talk) 07:12, 25 November 2022 (UTC)


 * Kids 6-12 can learn to drive by driving their own cars on a closed course that simulates a real city environment. Hmmm, this appears to mischaracterize the cited source and is possibly promotional.
 * Found new source. VarietyEditor (talk) 07:12, 25 November 2022 (UTC)


 * Guests pump their own fire engine to a simulated fire, then rush to a fire hydrant to pump water which puts out the fire, before pumping back to the start of the ride WP:PUFFERY and likely promotional
 * Reworded. VarietyEditor (talk) 07:12, 25 November 2022 (UTC)


 * A jet ski ride which uses centrifugal force.... run-on sentence
 * Shortened. VarietyEditor (talk) 07:12, 25 November 2022 (UTC)


 * Riders board a boat and use water cannons to shoot targets, as well as riders on other boats and non-riders Doesn't make sense.
 * Added some clarity. VarietyEditor (talk) 07:12, 25 November 2022 (UTC)


 * Some Legoland parks include Sea Life aquariums, very repetitive paragraph
 * Shortened. VarietyEditor (talk) 07:12, 25 November 2022 (UTC)


 * themed along with Lego Themes repetitive
 * Removed. VarietyEditor (talk) 07:12, 25 November 2022 (UTC)


 * New technology advancements include self check-in kiosks and Google Nest speakers in every room WP:PUFFERY and sentence fragment
 * Reworded. VarietyEditor (talk) 07:12, 25 November 2022 (UTC)


 * Kids are offered numerous activities cut
 * Done. VarietyEditor (talk) 07:12, 25 November 2022 (UTC)

Criticism
 * through opening throughout opening?
 * Done. VarietyEditor (talk) 07:12, 25 November 2022 (UTC)


 * Many worried about increased attention to the originally small town, as well as effects from increased vehicle traffic grammar
 * Done. VarietyEditor (talk) 07:12, 25 November 2022 (UTC)


 * has already polluted switched from past tense to present participle
 * Done. VarietyEditor (talk) 07:12, 25 November 2022 (UTC)

Well, you've got your work cut out for you. I haven't done a manual source-by-source check yet, partially because the WP:PRIMARY issue is rather large. I will give you an opportunity to respond rather than outright quick-failing the nomination but its going to be a real hefty endeavor if you seek to get this page to GA criteria by 11/30. I don't mean to scare you off from GA nomination, but please review Good article criteria. Ping me if you have any questions. Cheers, Etrius ( Us) 03:40, 23 November 2022 (UTC)


 * @User:VarietyEditor I want to make sure you see this. I can see you've been inactive since 10/30. I'll give you till 11/26 to respond and indicate you're still active. Etrius  ( Us) 02:24, 24 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Yes I am still active. VarietyEditor (talk) 04:59, 24 November 2022 (UTC)
 * @VarietyEditor Excellent!!! Let me know if you have any questions. I would recommend using the WP:PING template to notify me. Etrius ( Us) 05:04, 24 November 2022 (UTC)

@User:Etriusus I have removed and replaced most primary sources in the article, and have made or responded to the improvements you have suggested. How should I proceed to get the article to GA? VarietyEditor (talk) 07:41, 25 November 2022 (UTC)


 * @VarietyEditor GA reviews are a back and forth between two editors. As the reviewer I make sure it is compliant with GA criteria and as the nominee, you correct/respond to any issues that I may bring up. Once all my concerns are cleared up to the point that the page is compliant with GA criteria, I will pass it. Every reviewer has their own style of reviewing but the criteria are the same each time. Right now I will re-review the article since you've addressed my concerns. I'll get the second set of suggestions out probably tonight. Etrius ( Us) 02:55, 26 November 2022 (UTC)

Second pass
sources
 * Axelrod, Daniel. "Haverstraw's ill-fated Legoland proposal". recordonline.com. Retrieved June 6, 2021. dead link
 * "Legoland official confirms plan to build theme park in Goshen". Record Online. Retrieved June 30, 2021. wrong link
 * "Sneak Peek on Brick Street". Legoland New York Resort. Retrieved June 30, 2021. Primary source and dead link
 * Legoland Announces It Will Officially Open". WP:BAREURL
 * "Legoland New York Resort Is Offering Previews!". www.iloveny.com. May 20, 2021. Retrieved June 6, 2021. What makes this reliable? Seems promotional.
 * "Governor Cuomo Announces Full Opening of Theme Park at Legoland New York Resort in Orange County". www.governor.ny.gov. Retrieved July 9, 2021. Dead link
 * "Water playground reply". July 21, 2022. Retrieved November 25, 2022. WP:FACEBOOK
 * "Legoland New York Announces 2022 Opening and Expansion". Theme Park Insider. January 26, 2022. Retrieved July 12, 2022. missing citation information and appears to be a blog
 * "Legoland Theme Park in New York | Guide to Family Fun". www.iloveny.com. May 21, 2021. Retrieved June 30, 2021. What makes this reliable? Seems promotional.
 * Brick-by-Brick Legoland New York Review". October 28, 2021. Retrieved November 24, 2022. Missing citation information and looks to be a blog
 * "Legoland NY Opening Sneak Peek Story". Retrieved November 24, 2022. What makes this reliable?
 * "Lego Ninjago the Ride Interactive Attraction Builders". Triotech. Retrieved July 1, 2021. This is a primary, promotional source. Replace with a secondary one, I can see there are plenty out there.
 * "Legoland New York Tickets". Retrieved November 24, 2022 Citation format incomplete, this is functionally a bare url. Also seems to be a primary, promotional source.
 * "Merlin's Flying Machines Legoland New York Guide". December 28, 2021. Retrieved November 24, 2022. missing info in citation format
 * "DRAGON'S APPRENTICE". Retrieved November 24, 2022 missing info in citation format
 * What makes the themeparksandentertainment sources reliable? All seem to be a blog
 * I'm going to stop here, there are at least a dozen sources that are missing information. Please review WP:CITEHOW.

The page still relies too heavily on primary sources. I was able to find a number of secondary sources about the individual rides just on a cursory look. Too many of these sources are WP:PRIMARY and WP:PROMOTIONAL. I was very lenient with the first round but after doing a source-by-source check on the page, it still has a long way to go. Frankly, I don't think that the page will pass simply on the merit that the sourcing needs to be largely gutted and redone. Additionally, this is only what I could catch and I stopped just because it would be futile to list every single source that has issues. Did you review these sources before nominating the page?
 * @User:Etriusus Yes I did, and I'm pretty sure there are only a few primary sources on the individual rides. There are a few promotional sources, but I can replace them. Coaster101 and themeparkinsider are reliable sources and not blogs, as seen here and here. The remaining unreliable sources can be easily replaced. I will fill in the missing citation information.VarietyEditor (talk) 16:44, 26 November 2022 (UTC)


 * @VarietyEditor Alright, it is okay to keep those sources then. How is the work coming along? Etrius ( Us) 00:52, 28 November 2022 (UTC)
 * @Etriusus I think all the issues have been addressed. VarietyEditor (talk) 03:00, 30 November 2022 (UTC)

Third pass
 * Lead needs to be expanded. Only 4-5 sentences isn't enough to summarize the whole page.
 * Consisting 150 acres (61 ha) of seven Lego themed lands on a property of 500 acres (200 ha). sentence fragment
 * withdrawn due to resident concerns. What concerns?
 * On May 26, 2016, Legoland New York was reconsidered sentence needs to be rewritten. Confusing to read.
 * Which resulted in the reconstruction of exit... sentence fragment
 * Helping get NY 17 closer to sentence fragment
 * in order to coincide change to 'coinciding'
 * signaling a Legoland opening of 2021 Reword
 * Becoming the first new theme park in the northeast since 1974. sentence fragment
 * etc Either clarify further or cut
 * Honestly, the criticism section can probably be mixed with the History section. Emphasizing that section almost feels like WP:DUE.
 * "Legoland New York Soft Opening Map" I'm unsure about the reliability of FN 70. It's a primary source and I can't tell if it is advertising. This source has some wiggle room and perhaps you can argue a case for it.
 * Reviewing a number of Theme park GAs, it appears that they all have a 'Reception' section. This would be a good section to add and I can see that a number of already included sources could be used for this.

I made a large number of CEs as well. I can't do keep doing this much clean-up. In general, much of the history section could have its prose tightened up. GA allows reviewers some discretion but at the rate I'm going, I'll become a major contributor!!!

This was solid work. However, I am still worried that we are going in circles at this time. I applaud the work this page has gone through but it seems that more issues arise as more and more changes are made. I am going to fail the page, and would recommend you consider WP:PEERREVIEW or WikiProject Guild of Copy Editors. This isn't meant to be a criticism of your ability as an editor, I think the amount of work you've put in has demonstrated you have a bright future here. Hopefully these notes will give you enough to work with. Etrius ( Us) 04:04, 1 December 2022 (UTC)