Talk:Lehigh Valley

Lehigh Valley portal
Have created an LV portal page, as is customary to complement many notable place pages (i.e. Philly metro has one, Pittsburgh metro has one). Request assistance in populating. Never created a portal page before on Wikipedia. Usnetizen (talk) 17:03, 30 September 2011 (UTC)



Whitehall High School
We could really use an article on Whitehall High School in Whitehall Township, if someone could get around to that. Also, there are a few other public high schools listed in the education section that still need articles. It would be great if someone could take the lead in starting these, and I'll certainly do my best to assist with them too. PAWiki 19:26, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

High School Affiliations
I would like to include the high schools for all of the notable people listed in the Lehigh Valley article. Many have their high schools listed in their articles (I'd say about half do), but the rest do not. Does anyone know where the rest of these people went to high school? Post the answers here and I'll update all relevant pages. Thanks. PAWiki 22:17, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

Warren County, NJ
I've noticed that the article for Warren County, and indeed the articles for municipalities in the County, makes note of the County being a part of the Lehigh Valley. This is very true culturally, commerically, et cetera. In that light, would it be of benefit to reflect that here in the article describing the region? FPX Media 20:15, 25 January 2007 (UTC)


 * I agree, Warren county is both culturally but also geographically within the Lehigh Valley. Seeing as how no action has been taken on this in 15 years I decided to add Warren County to the article.Scu ba (talk) 02:45, 19 October 2022 (UTC)

Merge
This is basically a knock-off of Allentown, PA, almost the same page. I'm suggesting a merge, but only on this page as not to disrupt the quality of the Allentown article.-- TREYWiki  19:59, 20 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Strong Oppose:The Lehigh Valley is a geographical region of the state, not Allentown. --  JA 10  T · C 23:33, 3 June 2007 (UTC)
 * I concur with JA10. The Lehigh Valley is not just Allentown, it is also Kutztown, Bethlehem, Easton, and Phillipsburg to name a few. ( [ →] zel  zany  - review) 23:35, 3 June 2007 (UTC)
 * This isn't a ballot. Really, nothing on wikipedia is actually supposed to be a ballot (even XfD's). And your friend who likes to remove maintenance tags has come days ago and swooped the tag, so your a little late. -- T. Wiki  00:12, 4 June 2007 (UTC)
 * If I'd ever see that, it would be uncalled for. And it was never going to be a poll, it was supposed to be a discussion. ( [ →] zel  zany  - review) 01:42, 4 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Well, you can pretty much take it off now. But I would think about merging this and the Allentown MSA Page; because that is basically what this is. -- T. Wiki  01:49, 4 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Yeah right. The Lehigh Valley is the city of Allentown. I live here so I know what I'm talking about and last time I checked, a region of the state is not a city. --  JA 10  T · C 01:51, 4 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Hmm I dont know what your talking about. But the ABE MSA page says this:The region is often referred to as the Lehigh Valley, and is known locally as "the Valley". And other things that would suggest a merge.-- T. Wiki  01:56, 4 June 2007 (UTC)
 * By they way, MSA means metropolitan statistical area, not city. -- T. Wiki  01:56, 4 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Still an oppose because the Lehigh Valley is a geographical region of the state and the metro article is totally different even if it says its referered to as the Lehigh Valley. This article is about a landform not a metro area. --  JA 10  T · C 02:00, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

(de-indent) This page makes tons of references to the MSA one and that ones makes tons of references to this one. -- T. Wiki  02:02, 4 June 2007 (UTC)
 * So? MSA and a landform are a totally different thing. --  JA 10  T · C 02:10, 4 June 2007 (UTC)
 * And its best to merge the MSA to this article. 1. Lehigh Valley is a common name. 2. Your right, they're almost the same thing. 3. The Valley is a landform, therefore it should be merged here not on the MSA article. --  JA 10  T · C 02:15, 4 June 2007 (UTC)
 * 1. Not a landform, a region. 2. This is what I've been saying the whole time. 3. There is a merge from tag on this page meaning merge the ABE page onto this on.(its been there for a while)-- T. Wiki  02:19, 4 June 2007 (UTC)
 * A valley is a landform, last time i checked in school. It is a common name, so move the shitt from the MSA page and throw it to the Lehigh Valley article. --  JA 10  T · C 02:28, 4 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Strong Oppose. The ABE area and the Lehigh Valley are technically separate entities, with the Lehigh Valley encompassing a much larger area.  Also, this merge proposal has been up for a month and a half now and really should be brought to closure.  PAWiki


 * Update on merge, see below, The Lehigh Valley is a geographic region and is distinct from the Allentown-Bethlehem-Easton metropolitan area. Thanks, Zeete (talk) 11:58, 23 July 2022 (UTC)

Another Lehigh Valley Corporation
Bethlehem, PA is home to the confection manufacturer Just Born, Inc. This famous company creates those adorable Peeps, little marshmallow chicks, amongst other products. Buddmar 03:15, 27 May 2007 (UTC)buddmar

Boundaries
This article does an inadequate job of defining the boundaries of the Lehigh Valley. The map indicates that Carbon, Lehigh, Northampton, and Warren counties are part of the Lehigh Valley. The article, however, utilizes multiple boundary definitions--in some places it includes only Lehigh and Northampton counties, while in others it includes portions of Berks, Bucks, Carbon, and Warren counties. Inconsistencies like these are unencyclopedic and lead to awkwardly-worded attempts at reconciling conflicting language--for example, take a gander at the second paragraph in the introduction or the lists of towns and communities. Something must be done.

But what exactly should be done? The question remains: "what are the official boundaries of the Lehigh Valley?" As a (mostly) life-long resident of Northampton County, I am emphatically oppose including any portions of Berks, Bucks, Carbon, and Warren counties in the definition of the Lehigh Valley. In my experience those areas are either part of the Coal Region, Delaware Valley, Pennsylvania Dutch Country, or New Jersey, and are not considered part of the Lehigh Valley by its residents (though I'm sure a resident of, let's say, Palmerton might disagree). However, my opinion, though highly prized by me, is not dispositive and is ultimately inappropriate for an encyclopedia. What matters is what institutions like the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania and the United States Census Bureau think.

So far I've come up with nothing. Any suggestions? &quot;Country&quot; Bushrod Washington (talk) 05:25, 11 March 2008 (UTC)


 * I concur. The answer, I think, is to stick with the traditional, generally-accepted definition, that is, Lehigh and Northampton counties, which is how agencies such as L.V. Visitors & Convention Bureau, L.V. Planning Commission and Lehigh Valley Economic Development Corp. define the region. Since the Greater L.V. Chamber of Commerce includes Warren County in its service area and since it is difficult to separate Phillipsburg socially and economically, a sentence should probably be added regarding this. As for the list of places, a major revision is in order, for example, towns such as Jim Thorpe, Nesquehoning and Alpha should be removed, the census-recognized communities add nothing, and Lehigh and Northampton's townships should be considered for inclusion. I would like to hear from others before making these changes, but urge that the discussion focus on official sources. By the way, the Morning Call would not be a reliable source on the issue since much of the expanded definition stems from the newspaper's efforts to enlarge its circulation area.Allreet (talk) 01:21, 10 May 2008 (UTC)


 * I couldn't find any government or public source on the Internet that defines the Lehigh Valley as the Allentown-Bethlehem-Easton-PA-NJ metro. In fact, if you limit a search to .gov and .org, most hits either refer to the Wikipedia article or derive their info from it. There are some exceptions, but a close reading of these indicates a difference between the two terms. I can't say I've looked in every nook and cranny, but I strongly suspect LV is not synonymous with ABE-PA-NJ and that this distinction needs to be made. Allreet (talk) 08:41, 11 May 2008 (UTC)
 * @Allreet I also could not find any source. See below, Talk:Lehigh Valley. Thanks, Zeete (talk) 11:54, 23 July 2022 (UTC)
 * That's a blast from the past. I'm close to a subject matter expert on the issue - wrote five "quality of life books for the former Allentown Chamber - and what throws this off is the New Jersey connection. Phillipsburg/Warren County are part of the metro, just across the Delaware, but geographically that's not the Lehigh Valley. So you have it right. I'll add a note on your other Talk page comments. Allreet (talk) 12:47, 23 July 2022 (UTC)
 * Thanks! Zeete (talk) 12:59, 23 July 2022 (UTC)

Local Sports Organization
Hello, would like to get information on why the local sports league, Lehigh Valley Rollergirls, is "non notable" in the sports and entertainment section of Lehigh Valley wiki page. Thanks for your time.

Edb99 (talk) 15:15, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

Reducing Parochialism
In the short time I've been reviewing articles and discussions on Lehigh Valley communities, I've noticed that a considerable amount of time and attention seems to be focused on what are ultimately fairly trivial matters. Perhaps we need to step back and begin looking at things through the eyes of someone in Seattle or London. If so, we certainly would come closer to fulfilling the purposes and sentiments behind guidelines such as WP:NOT, WP:POV and WP:COI. I hope that this does not offend anyone. It's just that it appears that a great deal of energy (our primary resource) is being invested on things that are neither terribly important nor terribly interesting to anyone who lives more than 50 miles away.Allreet (talk) 02:25, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

Outlandish Claims
Part of the point of the above post is that claims are made in this article that border on silliness. Calling the Lehigh Valley the birthplace of the Industrial Revolution and referring to the Lehigh Valley Conference as one of the most competitive high school divisions in the nation are extraordinary assertions that require extraordinary citations. It's quite possible some past historian or local prostelitizer once made such claims, but that doesn't make them so. I've added to some of these. The solution, though, isn't to find sources to support what is clearly "puffery." The solution is to clean out the POV problem children and replace them with factual material. Allreet (talk) 07:27, 20 September 2008 (UTC)

Phillipsburg
Many, many sources support the inclusion of Phillipsburg in the Lehigh Valley, so I have reverted the recent deletions of it. Here is just one (from the Lehigh Valley Tourism site): http://www.lehighvalleypa.org/visitors/about  PAWiki (talk) 21:24, 27 August 2009 (UTC)

Major companies "based here" is inaccurate
In the Business and Economic Demographics section, the following paragraph includes several companies that are either not based here or that would not qualify as "large national and international companies":


 * Large national and international companies based in the Lehigh Valley include LSI Corporation (in Allentown), Avantor Performance Materials (Center Valley), Air Products & Chemicals (in Trexlertown), Bethlehem Steel (which ceased operations in 2003, in Bethlehem), Crayola LLC (in Easton), Buckeye Partners (in Emmaus), Heidelberg Cement (in Fogelsville), Just Born (in Bethlehem), Lutron Electronics (in Coopersburg), Mack Trucks (in Allentown), Olympus Corporation USA (in Center Valley), PPL Corporation (in Allentown), Rodale Press (in Emmaus), Sands Casino Resort Bethlehem, Synchronoss Technologies (Bethlehem), Victaulic (in Easton), and many others.

According to their Wikipedia articles, LSI is based in California, Mack in South Carolina, Sands in Las Vegas, Buckeye in Texas and Heidelberg Cement in Germany. "Based here" means the companies should be headquartered here, not just have local subsidiaries. Avantor and Synchronoss also do not fit the paragraph's lead-in, since neither is notable enough to have its own WP page. That criteria aside, being a large national company depends on having at least several hundred if not more than 1,000 employees either locally or at other locations. As for Bethlehem Steel, a company that shut down eight years ago doesn't belong in this context.Allreet (talk) 16:27, 30 January 2012 (UTC)


 * Upon further checking, Avantor (former J.T. Baker) qualifies for inclusion. Synchronoss, based in Bridgewater, New Jersey, does not. Allreet (talk) 16:51, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

Request for pronunciation guide in lead
This article (and Lehigh County, Lehigh River) lacks a pronunciation guide in the top, but really could use one. Namely, is it pronounced LEE-HIGH or LAY-HEE? (or whatever the IPA equivalents would be) Morgan Riley (talk) 19:23, 29 March 2013 (UTC)


 * Done Sacreux (talk) 08:46, 7 August 2013 (UTC)
 * By the way, it's "LEE-HIGH". Sacreux (talk) 08:54, 7 August 2013 (UTC)
 * may 99.129.39.221 (talk) 04:10, 25 February 2024 (UTC)

Cities and Location
Looks like you have some vandalism going on: "A festering hive of gentrified cities, parking lots, and suburban hellscapes..." May want to revert those changes. Bloozy31 (talk) 03:58, 26 August 2014 (UTC

Population numbers
The greatest population growth did not occur in the 1990s, but the following decade. The spike from 1990 to 2000 was due to the addition of Warren County, NJ to the total. Heff01 (talk) 06:05, 14 November 2015 (UTC)

External links modified
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 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20100725144738/http://www.lehighvalley.org:80/page.cfm?pag=303 to http://www.lehighvalley.org/page.cfm?pag=303
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20100817210905/http://www.lehighvalley.org:80/page.cfm?pag=427 to http://www.lehighvalley.org/page.cfm?pag=427

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External links modified
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 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20081013210527/http://media.www.dailyorange.com/media/storage/paper522/news/2007/11/13/Sports/Race-LehighLafayette.Rivalry.Dividing.Families.For.144.Years-3096221.shtml to http://media.www.dailyorange.com/media/storage/paper522/news/2007/11/13/Sports/Race-LehighLafayette.Rivalry.Dividing.Families.For.144.Years-3096221.shtml
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 * Added tag to http://www.mcall.com/news/local/all-b4_3norco.6662428nov07,0,7752769.story
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Is there an actual valley?
Is Lehigh Valley an actual valley? Or is it just the metropolitan statistical area that the opening describes? It seems to me there is a geological feature that names the region, which has a bunch a cities in it. In which case, the open should be re-written to reflect this. It is similar to places like Shenandoah Valley, Santa Clara Valley or San Fernando Valley, no? - Hooperswim (talk) 21:11, 6 January 2020 (UTC)


 * @Hooperswim The Lehigh Valley is an actual valley, part of the Great Appalachian Valley. See below, Talk:Lehigh Valley. Thanks, Zeete (talk) 11:51, 23 July 2022 (UTC)

The Lehigh Valley is a geographic region and is distinct from the Allentown-Bethlehem-Easton metropolitan area
The Lehigh Valley is a geographic region formed by the Lehigh River in Lehigh and Northampton counties of eastern Pennsylvania. It is a component valley of the Great Appalachian Valley, between Lebanon Valley and Kittatinny Valley. See references: The Lehigh Valley – A Natural and Environmental History and [https://lvpc.org/pdf/2017/FUTURELV/LVCompPlan_1980adpt1964.pdf A Comprehensive Plan for Lehigh and Northampton Counties, Pennsylvania – The Lehigh Valley ... 1980] On January 8, 2005, the article originally stated that the Lehigh Valley was a region. "The Lehigh Valley is a region of the U.S. state of Pennsylvania, located along the Lehigh River and including Lehigh County and Northampton County."

By March 6, 2006, the Cities and location section of the article added the Great Appalachian Valley. "The Lehigh Valley is geologically and geographically part of the Great Valley, a large region largely made up of limestone that stretches along the eastern edge of the Appalachian Mountains."

On July 5, 2007, the Allentown-Bethlehem-Easton metropolitan area article was merged into this article over the objections noted above, see Merge, and the Lehigh Valley became synonymous with the metropolitan region, without any reliable source noted. "The Lehigh Valley or the Allentown-Bethlehem-Easton, PA-NJ metropolitan area is a metropolitan region in eastern Pennsylvania, in the United States."

On February 15, 2008, Lehigh Valley became the official name of the statistical area, again without any reliable source. "The Lehigh Valley, also known as the Allentown-Bethlehem-Easton, PA-NJ metropolitan area, is an official metropolitan region consisting of Lehigh, Northampton and Carbon counties in eastern Pennsylvania and Warren county on the western edge of New Jersey, in the United States."

The distinction between the geographic region and the statistical area, and the lack of any reliable source is noted above, see Boundaries. I also could find any source equating the two names, except for copies (WP:CIRCULAR) of this article.

A Metropolitan Statistical Area does not define a geographic region. The Office of Management and Budget describes the uses of Statistical Area Delineations (including the Allentown-Bethlehem-Easton, PA-NJ Metropolitan Statistical Area): "These areas are not designed to serve as a general purpose geographic framework for nonstatistical activities, (reference OMB Bulletin No. 20-01)"

The Lehigh Valley is a geographic region in two counties, Lehigh and Northampton. The Allentown-Bethlehem-Easton, PA-NJ Metropolitan Statistical Area covers four counties, Carbon, Lehigh, Northampton, (in Pennsylvania) and Warren (in New Jersey). The Metropolitan Statistical Area includes the Lehigh Valley, but is not synonymous with it. These two topics need to be distinct.

Thanks, Zeete (talk) 11:49, 23 July 2022 (UTC)


 * The term Lehigh Valley differs slightly from its strict geographic definition, but it decidedly would not encompass Warren County. While it makes sense to treat the three counties, Lehigh, Northampton, and Warren, as a statistical area - Warren is something of an isolated orphan and has no other home. Plus there is some overlap economically, but not culturally, historically or otherwise. Washington, Hackettstown, and other communities outside Phillipsburg share nothing in common with the region in Pennsylvania. P-burg does because it's just across the Delaware River from Easton, but I'm certain nobody living there identifies as a Lehigh Valley resident.
 * The same applies to Carbon County which is mountainous and mostly rural with a population of just 64,000. People in Jim Thorpe and Lehighton do not consider their towns part of the Lehigh Valley, and some might in Palmerton because it's just on the other side of the Blue Mountain, but by and large, its residents tend to stay on that side.
 * And as you have, I've searched high and low for sources that might refer to the four counties as the Lehigh Valley and have found not a one. A couple decades ago, I wrote a series of "quality of life" books for the then-Allentown-Lehigh County Chamber of Commerce. In it, I wrote extensively about the Lehigh Valley region, and never once mentioned Warren or Carbon as part of it. The idea may suit some editors' biases in suiting their work for WP, but it's a fiction and an unsourced one at that. Allreet (talk) 13:46, 23 July 2022 (UTC)
 * If it's a fiction it's one in use by the US Government, as it's the Office of Management and Budget that defines the four-county Metropolitan Statistical Area.
 * But those definitions are fluid and based largely on current commuting patterns. The idea that they're permanent groupings is the biggest problem with how they're treated on Wikipedia. For example, for a few years the A-B-E MSA was grouped in with the NYC Combined Statistical Area, perhaps because Phillipsburg has people that commute in both directions. But Washington, Warren County, and Hackettstown are most certainly in the New York commutershed, so they pumped it all together. That didn't last, however, and is no longer the case. But there's still maps that show it as such around here. oknazevad (talk) 04:40, 8 August 2022 (UTC)
 * But those definitions are fluid and based largely on current commuting patterns. The idea that they're permanent groupings is the biggest problem with how they're treated on Wikipedia. For example, for a few years the A-B-E MSA was grouped in with the NYC Combined Statistical Area, perhaps because Phillipsburg has people that commute in both directions. But Washington, Warren County, and Hackettstown are most certainly in the New York commutershed, so they pumped it all together. That didn't last, however, and is no longer the case. But there's still maps that show it as such around here. oknazevad (talk) 04:40, 8 August 2022 (UTC)

Photo, infobox and chart formatting needs to be reviewed and improved
More and more photos, infoboxes/charts, maps, etc. have been added to this article over the last several years, giving it an increasingly cluttered look that makes it extremely difficult to read, particularly for people with visual impairments. At least several of these additions appear to violate Wikipedia's Manual of Style/Accessibility standards which urge editors to "Avoid placing images on the left hand side as a consistent left hand margin makes reading easier" and "Avoid sandwiching text between two images or, unless absolutely necessary, using fixed image sizes." At this point, several photos, infoboxes/charts/other images need to be removed, repositioned or edited in order to bring the article back into compliance with the MOS and make it more accessible for Wikipedia users with visual impairments. 47thPennVols (talk) 19:49, 31 January 2023 (UTC)

Discussion at WT:NRHP § List of historic places in Allentown, Pennsylvania
You are invited to join the discussion at WT:NRHP § List of historic places in Allentown, Pennsylvania. --  Marchjuly (talk) 00:30, 7 February 2023 (UTC)