Talk:Lelouch Lamperouge/Archive 1

Excess information?
Considering there is an article on the anime itself, do we really need five or six pages on LeLouch? The series is, for all practical purposes, entirely about him. Nitwit005 05:01, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
 * I'd say that this article really needs some cleanup und trimming, too. --Koveras ☭ 15:46, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

Responding to the first post. Lelouch is the entire series, we follow him and see how his actions keep leading to his downfall until the end where he saves himself. Lelouch is very much a Christ-Figure in this series, and yes the actual series posts probably still should be longer. And someone change Lelouch at the ending, hell it makes him seem like he's dead when for the most part the series hints at his survival yet the description doesn't hint at this at all. I changed it earlier but it was immediately changed and now I can't post. And all I did was say the driver could be Lelouch as a 4th interpretation.
 * We didn't really get to that last season, but this one, we will... Right, team?! >>; -Biokinetica (talk) 01:20, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

Crazybob12345 (talk) 02:25, 15 October 2008 (UTC) I think that the information at the end of both C.C and Lelouch's profile should be changed... it was confirmed C.C was talking to herself by the official code geass mobile site which explained her line at the end that was addressed to Lelouch.. I think whoever is editing this page seriously should know that too.. plus all the magazines and the writer himself Okouchi in an interview with a magazine said "His life had not been in vain. That was why he smiled in the end" also the Nunnally scene is explained by the site as well, stating her blindness can see through peoples hearts.. If you do not believe this information, There are scans of the interview from the magazine and the website you can go yourself and see.. so officially, Lelouch should be dead. Crazybob12345

Kxscez: @Crazybob12345: a link to the website if you will?

The article's main picture and its description are spoilers
I know that if you do not want spoilers, then you do not read the article but this one is really hard not watching. Maybe removing the explanation will fix the problem. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sunsetterxxx (talk • contribs) 14:13, 7 January 2008 (UTC) Sunsetterxxx (talk) 16:48, 7 January 2008 (UTC)
 * I agree on that point. Though I generally acknowledge that encyclopedia shouldn't concern itself with hiding spoilers, putting them so high up in the article just isn't nice. --Koveras ☭ 15:46, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

Categories
Should we perhaps add the article to Category:British anime and manga characters? --Koveras ☭ 12:59, 25 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Can Britannia be considered as parallel to modern-day Britain? It is an alternate history version, probably, but do we really have any conclusive evidence on the matter? I am not so sure. ··· 巌流 ? · talk to ganryuu 21:36, 25 March 2008 (UTC)
 * According to the Lelouch's History lesson, apparently the Royal family fled from British Isle when it was invaded by Napolean, and made the America colony its new homeland. So it could go either way. George Leung (talk) 02:45, 9 April 2008 (UTC)
 * I don't see why not. Most of FMA takes place in a fictionalized Germany, so, Hohenheim is categorized as a German character. Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 06:02, 16 August 2008 (UTC)

Geass Rules
I think that the rule about inital resistance should be removed. They are forced into absolute obedience regardless of how repugnant the idea is and I think it's less of a rule and more of an explanation of the events involving Euphemia. NinjaRooster (talk) 05:34, 14 April 2008 (UTC)
 * But it's actually important. Absolute obedience implies something is carried out immediately, and there could be some plot points that involve the Geass's failure to act in a certain time frame. erc talk/contribs 06:39, 17 April 2008 (UTC)
 * It's possible Euphemia's ability to resist Lelouch's command came about because it was issued without Lelouch's will. That is, the command was enforced by Lelouch's Geass, but the Geass at the time wasn't fueled by a conscious decision on Lelouch's part. I'm going to mention this in the article along with the note about resistance. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.109.250.126 (talk) 00:14, 28 September 2008 (UTC)
 * No, that's not the case. Nunnally also resisted Lelouch's Geass in R2 episode 25, and that command was issued intentionally. Fullmetal2887 (discuss me) 17:20, 2 November 2008 (UTC)
 * That theory was written before episode 25.79.69.241.79 (talk) 00:22, 4 November 2008 (UTC)

Odd Rule
In the Rules section, one is stated as "The user can also use the power on him or herself, as long as the above limitations and conditions are met." I don't remember this ever being revealed or taking effect, can someone provide evidence for it? Kiyura (talk) 03:31, 15 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Episode 16. Lelouch used the Geass on himself (using mirror) to make himself forget that he told Suzaku to wait nearby during Lelouch's chess match with Mao. Erratic Communist (talk) 13:56, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

Regarding potential improvements to the article
Alright, before I get into an edit war with any of you, I figure we should discuss this calmly and rationally here instead.

Okay. It's my view that this article doesn't quite meet the criteria for notability for fiction.

It is largely what wikipedia DOESN'T allow: a huge plot dump(see WP:NOT and WP:FICT for details). To be fair, it DOES have a little bit of real world content: stuff relating to his concept and creation, and the tiny bit about his seiyuu winning an award for his role as Lelouch, which makes it more deserving of being an article than most other ones. It's my opinion however that it isn't quite enough to warrant an article for Lelouch.

At the very least I believe we should condense the plot in the article and remove a few images, I think one of regular Lelouch and one of him dressed as Zero is enough.

We should also try to find as much real world content as possible, so that Lelouch can be more deserving of an article. This includes more details about his concept/creation, and also the reception he's met, the impact he's had, etc.HadesDragon (talk) 05:17, 3 May 2008 (UTC)


 * This posting addresses several other discussions in related articles.


 * Quote, directly from WP:Notability:
 * If an article currently does not cite reliable secondary sources, that does not necessarily mean that its topic is not notable.


 * In fact, independent real-world notability exists despite lack of secondary coverage in independent sources actually cited *here* for a number of the subject articles you've proposed mergers for in the past few days. The guideline in WP:Notability is intended only to advise the verifiable establishment of notability -- it's *not* a letter-of-the-law thing meant as a merge advisory in the circumstance that the guidelines are not met. Further, merging the page does not resolve the issue of lack of secondary sources in citation, which is itself a seperate issue from notability -- on merge, the issue is simply carried over to the merge target.


 * Note also that character articles usually arise because a large number of editors feel that the content in question is worthwhile and in-depth enough to be deserving of an independent page. Wikipedia is not a democracy, but you're fighting a consensus established upon roughly 700-800 edits made across the course of a year or two. To point: This page has been given a B rating by the Anime and Manga WikiProject.


 * Quote, directly from WP:Not:
 * In addition to other sections of this policy, current consensus is that Wikipedia articles are not simply:
 * 2. Plot summaries. Wikipedia treats fiction in an encyclopedic manner; discussing the reception, impact and significance of notable works. A concise plot summary is appropriate as part of the larger coverage of a fictional work.


 * The guideline here indicates that plot summary is allowable so long as it's not the only thing that's there. And a plot dump, in this case, is *not* the only thing present -- there *is* a significant amount of other content, and what there is relating to the plot has not been included indiscriminately. Relatedly, though the size of the character biography here may be somewhat excessive, whether it is or isn't concise is highly subjective -- there will be editors that feel that what's currently in the article is already concise, and that significant reduction isn't possible.


 * Secondary sources should not be hard to find for the article subjects in question -- these pages should be supplemented by citation, and not by merging or removing information;. Condensation for conciseness is conversely allowable, and has been a priority for a long time (see above). The exact present content of a page is not sufficient grounds to decide definitively whether the subject is notable in the real world. It doesn't follow that because citations aren't being made properly by editors that the subject is necessarily not notable; especially since, in this case, every big anime periodical in Japan regularly covers the subject in question.


 * -- Fallacies (talk) 09:50, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

Too many pictures
After seeing miniscule articles have their entire wealth of images completely removed, it seems a bit excessive to have all these images in this article, especially when most of them aren't entirely necessary. I recommend one of Lelouch, one of Zero and possibly an image of his Geass, but that's all that is really useful here. N-Denizen (talk) 08:50, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

I see they taken down the pictures now, but since the topic is being discussed I would like to thank the assbag who put the picture of the end of Lelouch to spoil it for anyone who was just trying to scroll up quickly. Thanks a lot.--Mullon (talk) 04:32, 5 March 2009 (UTC)

Lelouch's status as prince as of now
Regarding this sentence : "In response, his father declared him stripped of his status as prince and banished him to Japan, where he was used as a political hostage over the Sakuradite conflict." Shouldn't the word "prince" be changed to "successor to the throne" instead? In Episode 2 of R2, the Emperor still regards Lelouch as prince while saying he is "Former 17th successor to the throne" It should be said the status that was stripped of Lelouch back then was the right to the throne, not the prince one. Moreover, if he has not been a prince since back then, he would had no value as a hostage for the Sakuradite conflict. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.120.98.108 (talk) 07:55, 5 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Well he technically isn't a prince of Britannia anymore otherwise he'd have a claim to the throne. He also no longer has any value for marriage purposes so I think that it's accurate to state that he was stripped of his title as prince NinjaRooster (talk) 04:43, 7 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Just saw this, and I actually think the first poster is right. He's referred to as a prince many times throughout the series, not a former prince, so I think it should read "declared him removed from the line of succession". Also, only Nunally was no longer useful for marrying. But I'll wait for more input.Westrim (talk) 02:14, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

Is Wikipedia a narrative page?
Am I the only one bothered by the way this articles are being handled? Like narrating absolutely everything that happens in the series? I'm pretty sure it should not be like that. Too long for a fictional topic. (Sunsetterxxx (talk) 04:10, 11 July 2008 (UTC))


 * That is of course entirely subjective. The people that made this article would disagree with you. Important (i.e. main characters of major series) usually get a dedicated and more in-depth biography than minor characters or characters of less important shows. "Too long" or "too short" are all in the eye of the reader, just like whether or not something is "cruft." the_one092001 (talk) 04:16, 11 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Your argument seems ill-informed or over-simplified. Explain your problem. — Trust not the Penguin (T | C) 04:17, 11 July 2008 (UTC)


 * hmmmm... nevermind (Sunsetterxxx (talk) 19:15, 12 July 2008 (UTC))

Lelouch as an "Anti-hero"
Lelouch displays several things that, to this point, could arguably put him as anything but an anti-hero. He displays desirable traits (intelligent, strategist) and is also of exceedingly noble birth (Former Prince of Britannia). And not only that, his actions seems selfish, and somewhat arrogant of everyone else around him, such as with those supporting Japan's independence. Although, since the anime, at least, still isn't quite finished, it would most likely be hard to say he's a Tragic hero, but I would say that or a Byronic hero would be better classifications for Lelouch.

Honestly, I could even say that he is borderline Anti-villain, considering his obvious disregard for other people's well being. — Zenchi (talk) 02:07, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

I say he's pretty much a hero. He's not that selfish. He cares about his sister and his friends. He was pissed at Rolo when he killed Shirley. Sure he's has some traits of a villian but he's nothing compared to Yagami Light from Death Note who even wanted to kill his own father to save his own ass.VersusXIII (talk) 10:40, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

I don't care what kind of hero he is I just hope he doesn't end up like Light in the end, because even though he's motives are that of an anti-hero and he's prepared to die as a martyr and I don't think he'll die when he's fully prepared too. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 206.248.248.221 (talk) 02:25, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

Yeah I know what mean I mean I hope Lelouch doesn't die in the end I mean even thow he was manipulating Rolo and hated him for killing Shirley he was sad by Rolo's death and in the end thought of him as a real brother. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.207.75.219 (talk) 14:16, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

Nunnally's status as dead
There seems to be some confusion regarding Nunnally's status among viewers. Although it isn't certain she is dead, the series protagonists (Lelouch, Suzaku, Orange, and others) clearly believe she is dead as of episode 19 of R2. More importantly is her change of status from "missing in action" to "dead" in the official site's character relation pane.

This can be found at http://geass.jp/img/correlative.gif 149.166.191.48 (talk) 03:21, 18 August 2008 (UTC)

Other Appearances Section
Since Lelouch is a major character and appears in several other series, I personally think he should have an "Other Appearances" section like Suzaku. His abilities in Nightmare of Nunnally are completely different from those in the original anime. He also appears in the Tales of an Alternate Shogunate manga as well as Suzaku of the Counterattack. Even if it's just a short section I believe it should be added. the_one092001 (talk) 04:19, 16 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Never read them, so wouldn't know what to write. — Trust not the Penguin (T | C) 04:24, 16 August 2008 (UTC)

Category:Fictional hypnotists
I don't really watch the show, is his ability closely related to hypnosis or is it psionic? If the latter, I don't think the category could be added. Thoughts?


 * Without any sources telling us if it's hypnotic of psionic, any speculation into the area would be original research. Due to the behavior of the victims, the requirement for eye contact and for the subject to hear Lelouch's voice, I would say it's closer to hypnosis, and I sort of recall it being called "Absolute Hypnosis" once, but I can't remember for sure, and this is just my own opinion. the_one092001 (talk) 06:21, 16 August 2008 (UTC)


 * I can't find any reliable sources supporting such a claim. There an episode I should be looking for? Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 18:21, 16 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Think I'm just going to include it, as well Category:British anime and manga characters, per the discussions. Any thoughts before I act? Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 17:43, 18 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Considering that he was born in North America, that would not really work. — Trust not the Penguin (T | C) 17:55, 18 August 2008 (UTC)


 * I see. And the other? Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 17:59, 18 August 2008 (UTC)


 * They describe it as hypnosis in this latest episode. You can get away with it. — Trust not the Penguin (T | C) 18:16, 18 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Might you know any other fictional characters with some hypnotic technique(s)? Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 18:31, 18 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Not offhand. — Trust not the Penguin (T | C) 18:55, 18 August 2008 (UTC)

This might help. I didn't take the time to look through it, but the site has helped me find specific character traits with relative ease before. http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/bodysearch.php?term=hypnosis&spaced=hypnosis Westrim (talk) 23:10, 18 August 2008 (UTC)

Skill vs proficient
The incident vs Suzaku in the first episode doesn't mark skill. He blocked one attack and ran the rest of the time. Similarly, he attacks Cornelia either while she fighting someone else or is powering up. In the second incident, she still knocks out his arm. The incident with the Burai in the Kyoto House is also not proof. He stole an enemy Knightmare and attacked them without warning. He has only shown himself to have ordinary skills. Nowhere has he shown the ability to effectively fight. — Trust not the Penguin (T | C) 06:36, 3 September 2008 (UTC)


 * (Edit Conflict with The One) Sorry, this didn't pop up on my watchlist until 6:48. Now, that incident in the second episode does indeed mark skill- that he was able to run at all, and while under fire, is skillful, not to mention that when he was eventually cornered he was still able to block several attacks from the strongest, fastest, mech around, if with damage. All this in what was his first time in a cockpit ever, so far as we know. Proficient pilots are slaughtered by Suzaku, while Lelouch escapes, albeit with help. The two posted incidents weren't meant (by me) to be examples of his piloting prowess; I agree with you on them. The truth is, he has gone up against several better equipped opponents and managed to escaped, if with help- no one else can claim that except Tamaki (the Wedge) and Kallen. Even with the help, he still had to be better than just proficient. Westrim (talk) 07:10, 3 September 2008 (UTC)


 * I agree. Every time he's put up against an "ace" pilot like Cornelia or Suzaku in a one-on-one fight, he gets defeated. Even Kallen fares better than he did against Suzaku's first attack in Episode 2, and he only manages to defeat Cornelia thanks to the Gawain's power and his prior Geassing of General Darlton. He states that he needs Kallen in a powerful Frame as their ace, since he can pilot a Burai "well-enough," which demonstrates a level of proficiency (about the same as a normal Britannian/Black Knights pilot) but nowhere near "skilled." As before, plot armor keeps him alive where other pilots of similar skill perish, showing his Knightmare losing only an arm or sustaining damage whereas others are 1-hit-KO'ed since they're unimportant and not worth watching slowly be dismantled like a main character. the_one092001 (talk) 07:04, 3 September 2008 (UTC)


 * @ The One: He gets defeated, yes, but not killed; that's the difference between proficient and skilled. Cornelia and Suzaku are exceptional. He may not be on their level, but he's definitely above the regular, proficient pilots. And yes, the reason for all this is plot armor, but his ability still stands; Kallen isn't a worse pilot for her armor, after all. Westrim (talk) 07:16, 3 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Proficiency does not become skill simply by virtue of survival. Plot armor does not equate to skill. It's luck by virtue of plot convenience. — Trust not the Penguin (T | C) 07:39, 3 September 2008 (UTC)


 * He didn't run under fire in the second episode. After initially engaging the Lancelot (which was also Suzaku's first sortie ever in a Knightmare) they both fall to the ground from the building where Lelouch was hiding, and the Lancelot is then engaged by Kallen. Suzaku easily defeats Kallen, who then escapes in her ejector pod, while Lelouch starts running. Suzaku chases him while Lelouch attempts to collapse the buildings on him, but is unsuccessful until Suzaku leaves to rescue a falling woman whereupon Lelouch ejects and flees. Nowhere in this is there any indication of skill, since only once does the Lancelot actually directly fight Lelouch's Sutherland (right when they first meet). Note that Lelouch already has experience piloting Knightmare Frames such as the Ganymede (albeit without weapons) while Suzaku has absolutely NO experience with them whatsoever.


 * A more even fight would be against Anya in Season 2, when he has his Shinkiro (a first rate Frame) and Anya has her Mordred (also a first rate Frame) during the Second Battle of Tokyo. Lelouch displays no particular skill even against Anya's rather simplistic "fire until the shield breaks" assault, and is on the verge of losing until Marianne stops her. Even when he is able to use his full intellect to maintain the shields (instead of just his reflexes for piloting) he comes within seconds of dying before being confronted with another opponent, although this opponent (Luciano) has 4 support Knightmares. Even when piloting the massive Gawain in tandem with C.C., Cornelia nearly defeats him. That battle was one of the very few where he had a technology advantage over his opponent (others being when he uses his Shinkiro against the Chinese Federation Army in the 2nd season) and still was unable to win without having planted backstabbers in the enemy ranks (Darlton). Lelouch has shown proficiency in his operation of Knightmare Frames to the level of a possibly above average pilot, but has not displayed any true "skill" in piloting beyond the basics, even in exceptional machines. the_one092001 (talk) 07:55, 3 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Sorry I'm late- had to live life and re download the relevant episodes. So, to business.
 * @Penguin All plot armor has an in-universe explanation- Han was an excellent shot, hobbits get overlooked, Harry Potter is protected by love, etc. As I said, that it is plot armor keeping them alive does not denigrate their skill.
 * @TheOne:Sorry I got the event order wrong, but my opinion is still firm on the second episode; despite it being his first time in a Frame ever(Edit: when was he in Ganymede? I don't recall that being mentioned), and despite said Frame being very inferior to his attacker, he was still able to block attacks several times while remaining in operational condition (something that many competent pilots were unable to do), escape (with a diversion, but a rather short one) and run while directing accurate fire to create obstacles (that the obstacles didn't work is a testament to Suzaku's skills, not his lack of them). That's more than competent, that's skilled, especially against an opponent as determined and capable as Suzaku that had a far superior Frame and unprecedented natural ability.
 * As for any battles after ep.18, they're pretty much discounted by the "new mech of the week syndrome", of which he was the largest beneficiary with Gawain and later Shinkiro, which were so powerful or defense oriented he barely fought at all, just either beam-spamming or uber-shielding; they were no more built for flying around and dogfighting than the Ikaruga was. The fight against Anya was a matter of who's energy would last longer; neither was built for CQC, and as dialogue stated, he couldn't move while blocking her beam- piloting didn't enter into the picture. Also, you forget that it was C.C. that piloted the Gawain, and thus it was her failing in that battle against Cornelia, not Lelouches'. Your last sentence is contradictory: he may be an above average pilot, yet shows no skill beyond the basics? That second bit is incorrect and/or inapplicable, as I just layed out, and if he is above average, and average=competent, then above average= above competent... in other words, skilled. Or an equivalent word to skilled, if you prefer- I don't particularly mind, but he is above competent, of that I'm sure. Westrim (talk) 05:17, 4 September 2008 (UTC)
 * It used to be stated here that he was the one who piloted the Ganymede at school festivals before the arrival of Suzaku and later Gino. Hence, he would have an idea of how they basically operated and would put him at a significant advantage over Suzaku, who was piloting his Knightmare Frame for the first time and piloting a Frame that was supposedly too dangerous to risk a Britannian pilot in. If not, then both were in the same situation and Suzaku clearly showed himself superior when placed in a more adverse situation. Hitting the side of a chain of skyscrapers is hardly a mark of skill; he would have been hard-pressed to miss them although admittedly his tactical mind (which has nothing to do with his piloting ability) told him not to fire ineffectively against Suzaku but instead against the buildings, which in turn were ineffective as well. The end result was the same: he was defeated soundly after having landed no hits and blocking only one (the initial) attack by an enemy who was also highly inexperienced in Frame combat and piloting a Knightmare considered "too dangerous" to give to Britannians.
 * Funny how plot armor is discarded but "new mech of the week" is kept as a viable excuse. He wouldn't have given the Gawain to C.C. if he didn't think she was a better pilot (or at least as competent as he) since it is clear he can both pilot and monologue at the same time while piloting the Shinkiro. Supposedly, having two pilots would have made the Gawain even stronger and more coordinated (similar to two-seater modern aircraft) but instead, the Gawain was still boarded and damaged by Cornelia's lightning attack in a vastly inferior Knightmare. He isn't stupid, and if C.C. weren't a better pilot, he would have piloted it himself because he understands how the Black Knights then and now needed as much firepower as they could get. Were he truly a skilled pilot, he would have noticed the Mordred barreling at him before it rammed him and took him out of the fight, and thus have maneuvered out of the way. Any combat seasoned veteran would have known to watch their backs even when delivering speeches, and Lelouch was completely oblivious to Anya's attack despite having very few distractions (since all mass-production Knightmares aside from the Akatsukis were frozen). He also had a moment to react before Anya fired her Stark Hadron cannons, a moment that more skilled pilots like Kallen or Suzaku would have surely exploited to at least even the odds if not gain the upper hand.
 * The comment about Lelouch being a "basic" pilot is that he is comparable in skill to a standard Britannian Knightmare pilot. He may appear to have above average skill due to his sharp tactical mind, but his raw piloting ability shows nothing more than that of normal Britannian soldiers. He gives up the Guren Mk-II initially because he knows he would not be able to fully utilize it (unlike Kallen) and takes the Shinkiro later because he is the only one that can correctly operate its Absolute Protection Territory system. He may for concessions' sake be slightly above average, but that is nothing near proficient in my book. To be proficient he would have to show himself to be clearly a better pilot than an average Britannian soldier (although obviously not the same as Kallen, Cornelia, or Suzaku), which he has not conclusively done so far. the_one092001 (talk) 06:32, 4 September 2008 (UTC)

I'll say more later (have work to do), but I'll just note that there seems to be a discrepancy between what I say and what you think I say; I do not believe that he is anywhere near pilots like Suzaku or Cornelia, just that he is better than the average pilot- so stop acting like any comparison to them proves your point. If I put this on a 100 point scale, I'd have the average, competent pilot at 20, Lelouch at 35, Cornelia at 80-85 and Suzaku at 95-100. As a real world example, the average is your regular driver, Lelouch is a cop with a some more skill, and Suzaku is Jeff Gordon (I guess that makes Cornelia Danika Patrick :). Westrim (talk) 06:57, 4 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Okay, I'm back. There's not really much more to say- looking now at Rogue Penguins shifting of the paragraph, I can agree that proficient is an accurate term, so the debate is settled. I will repeat, however, that your comparisons of Lelouch to Suzaku and others were invalid, as it was already accepted that they were much better pilots and often had better equipment; the question was whether he did better against them than the average pilot, which he most certainly did. New mech of the week wasn't an excuse, I was just noting that whatever Knightmare was newest was also the strongest, which is true, and that Lelouch a great beneficiary of the trope, which is also true. As for the Gawain, considering its abilities and lack of maneuverability, I imagine it was more important for there to be a good gunner than a good pilot, and he was the better gunner. I think most of our conflict arose from different ideas on the definition of skilled; mine is reflected by the by the scale in my previous post. Westrim (talk) 22:58, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

A combination of original research and wishful thinking?
"It's also believed that Lelouch is the one riding the horse with C.C. at the end."86.43.176.110 (talk) 16:53, 28 September 2008 (UTC)


 * There's a lot of in-show evidence that proves (or at least hints HEAVILY) to him being very much alive. Darfjono (talk) 17:58, 28 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Agreed, and here's a link with a lot of points http://animeotaku.animeblogger.net/2008/09/code-geass-r2-25-so-is-lelouch-dead-or-not/. Though it wouldn't be proven officially that he's alive, I don't believe it can't be proven officially that he's dead with all of those key happenings. --12.206.2.162 (talk) 20:14, 28 September 2008 (UTC)
 * While I personally believe he is alive in the end, personally, I think we should go the middle ground and say it's implied he is on the cart. 131.247.244.234 (talk) 23:16, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

Lelouch vi Britannia vs Lamperouge
Considering Lelouch's name is Lelouch vi Britannia, Lamperouge being the name he uses while in hiding (yes, I know it was his mothers's maiden name), shouldn't this be the title of the page? There are several instances showing that he considers "vi Britannia" to be his actual name: when using Geass on an important person (or giving an important order) he says "Lelouch vi Britannia commands", not Lamperouge. In the end preview/closing thoughts of episode nineteen of R2, he makes a distinction between his personalities as Lamperouge and vi Britannia; mentioning that he would consider Rolo a brother to Lamperouge, and not vi Britannia.

If no one has any valid objection I'll make the change in a day or two. IP If you change it to Lelouch vi Britannia it could be a potential spoiler for the people who didn't watch the entire series. Another IP

This needs more discussion, but I support it. It's not a spoiler- her reveals it in the very first episode and the fact that he is a former prince is integral to any series synopsis Westrim (talk) 16:06, 30 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Just as a note; whether or not it's a spoiler is entirely irrelevant. This is an encyclopaedia, not a fansite. Rtvybo787 (talk) 20:48, 30 September 2008 (UTC)
 * I agree with the first poster. This article should be called 'Lelouch vi Britannia'. The name 'Kozuki' is used in Kallen's article (which is the name she is most referred to as) so I see no reason why this should not be Lelouch vi Britannia. NinjaRooster (talk) 08:35, 1 October 2008 (UTC)

Comment: Personally, I have no objection to either, but if we move the article to Lelouch vi Britannia, shouldn't we also do the same for Nunnally? - plau (talk) 10:16, 1 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Yeah. I was going to do that if there were no valid objections pointed out here. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Rtvybo787 (talk • contribs) 10:10, 2 October 2008 (UTC)

"Geass runaway"
Gonna need a source for that. You can't just give something a name you think sounds good, mention it "came from a magazine" and leave it at that. What was the magazine's name? Is it canon? Which issue? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Rtvybo787 (talk • contribs) 13:41, 29 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Second. Darfjono (talk) 21:50, 29 September 2008 (UTC)

Info of Lelouch in Nightmare of Nunnally
Should we add info of Lelouch from the 'Nightmare of Nunnally' manga series?

Zero Requiem
Is there a more in-depth explanation for how him taking over the world and being murdered is supposed to bring peace? All the character pages talk about it, and one even says a character understands this plan, but none of it makes any sense to me, and it seems like generic anime silliness. Could just a little bit more detail be added, so that the passage at least communicates some rational thought? Not even Mr. Lister's Koromon survived intact. 22:45, 14 October 2008 (UTC)


 * The Zero Requiem is basically Lelouch's plan to take over the world and become the worst dictator it has ever known; making the previous Britannia appear friendly in comparison. The plan was to cause the world to despise him; making him the target for everyone's hate - for the first time, uniting every living being in one common ideal; that Lelouch is Satan incarnate. He had explained this plan to Kururugi, and arranged with Kururugi that when they felt Lelouch had satisfactorily established himself as "the enemy of mankind", Kururugi would appear in the guise of Zero and "assassinate" Lelouch - thereby ending the worst threat mankind has ever known. Coupled with this plan, there was the fact that all military power existed under Britannia's control (thanks to Lelouch's command of the Damocles and FLEIJA).


 * Therefore, when Lelouch was killed, there was no more reason for the constant war that had plagued the world of Code Geass, and the United Federation of Nations Lelouch (as Zero) had single-handed built (and kept in place as Emperor; taking the titles CEO of the Order of Black Knights and "Second Supreme Chairman of the UFN") could unite again in order to make progress in problems like hunger and poverty, where before no effort could be spared on these things because of the necessity of putting all resources into defending themselves against Britannia.Rtvybo787 (talk) 11:15, 18 October 2008 (UTC)

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Lelouch Vi Brittania
i just checked the names most known to lelouch. it turns out lelouch vi brittania is the most popular, not lelouch lamperouge

in Google, lelouch lamperouge = 133 thousand and lelouch vi brittania =457 thousand. you could even check it yourself.Linder1990 (talk) 15:37, 23 February 2009 (UTC)


 * And? DaisukeVulgar (talk) 15:52, 23 February 2009 (UTC)

shouldn't we change the name? they switch kallen kokuzi to stadtfeld because the fans known her as stadtfeld more than kozuki.

well the fans know lelouch as "vi brittania" more than "lamperouge".Linder1990 (talk) 15:27, 24 February 2009 (UTC)

This was debated previously as well. It was decided, much like Kallen; which I was under the impression was changed to Stadtfeld because she is first introduced as that. It's put down that his real name is 'vi Britannia' so I don't see the real problem. Though you're right, he is most known by his real name than his assumed name; And going by WP:MoS for anime and manga-related articles would mean choosing 'vi Britannia' over 'Lamperouge'. I'm fine either way in the end, as long as both names are kept within the article and labeled properly. DaisukeVulgar (talk) 16:11, 24 February 2009 (UTC)

then shouldn't we change the name for the very reason they changed the name of kallen kozuki to "stadtfeld". the only reason why they changed it was because the fans known her more as stadtfeld.

since "vi Britannia" is more known, we should change it.Linder1990 (talk) 15:34, 2 March 2009 (UTC)


 * You're doing it wrong. If you want to do a comparison using Google searches you have to put them in quotes, like this:
 * Lelouch Lamperouge - 104,000 hits
 * Lelouch vi Britannia - 101,000 hits
 * Eh, they're pretty much neck-to-neck. Better stay with the status quo. --Aeon17x (talk) 13:53, 20 March 2009 (UTC)