Talk:Leona Helmsley

Untitled
Very new to this so I apologize if I'm doing this wrong. I just noticed, with all the discussion on Rick Santorum's talk page about whether mentioning that people were trying to change his name into some sort of scatological insult would violate NPOV, on this page, mention is made of Leona Helmsley being the 'Queen of Mean'. I would think the same rule applies. On the other hand, one might argue that both instances are newsworthy facts about the subjects, and to omit them would be inaccurrate.


 * "Queen of Mean" is certainly a POV nickname, but Helmsley is unquestionably associated with it and hence it is encyclopedic IMO. Are the same people who tagged the article as unreferenced the ones deleting the admittedly few that it had?  Rlquall 00:19, 7 July 2006 (UTC)


 * I've restored and improved the references. Jehochman ☎ / ✔ 00:29, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

Birth name?
Was her birth name "Lena" (as is currently stated in the article) or "Leona"? Galena11 21:13, 6 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Per the reference, it was Lena. Jehochman ☎ / ✔ 00:28, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

Criticism
I removed this from the article as it did not have any citations. Please see the warning above for articles on a living person and criticism. Morphh  (talk) 20:37, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

After her marriage to Helmsley, Leona became known as the "queen" of Hemlsley Palace, supposedly acquiring the nickname "The Queen of Mean" from its employees. However, the hotel was well-located and apparently well-managed in some regards; some reviewers found it well worth its rather extravagant pricing. Jeremiah McCart, the former senior vice president of Helmsley-Spear, Inc. and chief witness in Helmsley's prosecution, claimed that Leona fired him on eight different occasions. He said that he usually reported directly to Harry Helmsley and when asked what to do, Harry usually replied "Get back to work." McCarthy also claimed that Leona forcefully demanded that he sign illegal invoices and when he declined to do so on numerous occasions she exploded with tyrannical outbursts claiming, "You're not my fucking partner; you'll sign what I tell you to sign."


 * This source is within a New York Times article that requires a paid subscription. Does somebody subscribe to the NYT online? If you do, can you check this reference and restore the material if it checks out? Jehochman  ☎ / ✔ 15:07, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

Photo needed
Does anyone have a person snapshot of Leona? She passes through the lobby of her hotel all the time. I've met her myself, but didn't think to take a photo. Jehochman ☎ / ✔ 00:27, 16 May 2007 (UTC)


 * It would probably be best to use a photo from the time of her trial; judging by the picture here, you'd need to write a lengthy caption explaining why she looks that way today. -Ashley Pomeroy 23:14, 4 July 2007 (UTC)
 * I just emailed one of her friends to see if they can track one down. The mug shot from 1988 probably isn't the best.--Canoe1967 (talk) 09:53, 1 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Make sure any new photo is properly licensed or it may get deleted. The mug shot in the infobox is not 100% necessary, but it will remain somewhere in the article. She was a famous individual before being convicted of any criminal charges, so the question of undue weight could very easily be argued to keep the mug shot out of the infobox (as in something like Phil Spector). Doc   talk  10:08, 1 May 2013 (UTC)
 * It had her holding the number sign for five years before I discovered it and cropped it out. I will help her friends with OTRS etc. I don't think many people realize that they can supply images with the permission/license of the copyright holders. Mrs. Helmsley's photos have little value now so her friends may just pay for a good one. There are nice ones with her dog that were taken by a pro that I may mention.--Canoe1967 (talk) 10:20, 1 May 2013 (UTC)
 * I'm with you all the way on getting another photo for the infobox. Other photos as well, properly licensed. I hope you can get them, as they will undoubtedly improve the article. Doc   talk  10:23, 1 May 2013 (UTC)
 * I will wait a day or so on that email and then try others. I have helped quite a few get decent images licensed. One subject claims to have had her upload deleted 20+ times before we got it sorted with an email from her photographer to OTRS. Bill Gates still has his teenage mug in his article but I doubt he cares. Daryl Katz has a bad fan shot and no email. He lives near me and I may go kick on his door to see if he wants to pose for a better one. Most are happy to email them to me with photographer license emails attached. I just send them the form from commons OTRS.--Canoe1967 (talk) 10:44, 1 May 2013 (UTC)

Prison sentence
Is there a source that she was originally sentenced to decades in prison? The reference I have--All Around the Town, by Patrick Bunyan, pp. 179-180--says she was sentenced to four years, which she began serving on April 15, 1992, and that she was released to "house confinement" on November 26, 1993, which would be 19 months by my count. She could have been released from house arrest on January 1994, for a total of 21 months of punishment--not unusual for a four-year sentence. Nareek 17:01, 9 June 2007 (UTC)

Unintelligible sentence
"Supposedly under her influence, he began a program of conversion of apartment buildings to condominiums, confounding some of the tenants." - I know what the verb "confounding" means, but it really makes no sense in this context. Please clarify.

Also, "He eventually despaired of the legal complications that this entailed"...I appreciate your vocabulary, but not this clumsy phrasing.

Additional information from news reports
I was reading a news story on her death and found the following interesting, but they are not in this article:


 * Before her son’s death of a heart attack in 1982, she told interviewers she would not talk about him “because terrible things can happen to people these days.”


 * She evidently was referring to being knifed by robbers at her Palm Beach home in 1973. She was stabbed in the chest and suffered a collapsed lung, and Harry was wounded in the arm.


 * After her son died, she sued the estate for money and property she said her son had borrowed, and an eviction notice was served on her son’s widow, Mimi.


 * Mimi Panzirer said afterward that the legal costs wiped her out and “to this day I don’t know why they did it.”

Can someone add this, when they get the time? Bytebear —The preceding  signed but undated.


 * I remember reading about this. Apparently the intent wasn't the legal victory, but to financially wipe out that family. This was referred to in an unflattering and overreaching comparison of Katherine Harris when she sued her grandfather's estate.
 * --UnicornTapestry (talk) 16:02, 18 April 2009 (UTC)

Thanks to cleaner-upper
Thank you to the person who fixed my footnote (#9) and made some good edits to the article. I'm still rather clumsy and inexpert on Wikipedia. I agree above notes are interesting and hope someone will incorporate them, but I can't do... 67.117.144.5 20:20, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

Hi, all. I don't know where you got the information stating that Leona disinherited her grandchildren "because they failed to name any of their children after her late husband," but the NY Post reports that it is because "they neglected to visit their father's grave to her liking." http://www.nypost.com/seven/09102007/news/columnists/grave_error_by_leonas_grandkid.htm

Lisa Albany, NY —Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.107.131.129 (talk) 21:49, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

Cause of untimely death

 * Cardiovascular disease ran strong in her family, claiming the lives of her father, son and a sister.

Cardiovascular deaths shall be highly popular among people who have lived for 87 years. I mean you are supposed to die from any disease when you're 87 years old. You're are supposed to die from heart failure when you're 87 years old whether you have a family history or not. The above sentence may only be used to describe an untimely death. -- Toytoy 21:54, 20 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Cardiovascular deaths shall be highly popular among people who have lived for 87 years. -- Is that a pronouncement? I decline, thanks anyway. WiccaWeb 03:31, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

It seems silly when she was so old. (Daer11 14:57, 29 August 2007 (UTC))

Bio source
There is some really good biographical info in this "confidential presentence report" found here:

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2007/0821071helmsley1.html

Some good background about her parents and family...

WiccaWeb 17:05, 21 August 2007 (UTC)

Rhymes With Rich
I'm puzzled why one of the most famous headlines of all time "Rhymes With Rich" is constantly cut here. Do a simple google on Rhyme With Rich Newsweek Almost all the obituaries included it although on wikipedia it gets sanitized. Americasroof 03:16, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

I'm a Doorman on Park Avenue. A painter, a WORKman, told us a story the other day. Leona Helmsley contracted him to do a job at her mansion up in Connecticut. Another rich person who knew and liked him told him, "No, G*** (name expunged), you can't do this this! She'll STIFF you!" Mind you that these painters do quality work, and doing a job costs 10s of thousands of dollars to them.

To make a long story short, the other rich lady told him to tell Leona that your wife contracted cancer and that you won't be able to do this job. She was upset, but hired someone else. A year later, my painter friend found out she STIFFED HIM!

She really was a B*tch, and I'm sure is roasting in a fiery place right now. Bruce1314 05:50, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

NY Post has to be in article for the graphic to be used
The New York Post article has to be mentioned by name in order for the graphic to stay according to fair use standards. Americasroof 11:13, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

Helmsley's hostility toward daughter-in-law
I still have a copy of The Queen of Mean written during and after Leona's trial by New York Times Ransdall Pierson. It in, it said that Leona's animosity toward started Mimi was after Jay's death, she and a lawyer went into Jay's office and apparently did something which they refused to disclosed to Leona and Harry. Mimi claimed she was there to collect personal effect whereas the Helmsley thought she was doing a "power play", taking advantage of Jay's death.Xinivrae 13:19, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

Settlement
However, in the April 30 judgment (published only on June 16, 2008), Manhattan Surrogate Court Judge Reena Roth further ruled Helmsley was mentally unfit when she executed her will. Hence, the Court, amid settlement, awarded $ 4 million to the charity, and $ 6 million to Craig and Meegan Panzirer, who were disinherited by the will (if they would keep silent about their complaint with their grandmother and deliver to her any documents). 9-year-old Trouble lives in Florida with the Carl Lekic, general manager of the Helmsley Sandcastle Hotel amid receiving several death threats. Lekic, Trouble's caretaker, stated that $2 million would pay for the dog's maintenance for more than 10 years - the annual $100,000 for full-time security, $8,000 for grooming and $1,200 for food. Lekic is paid a $60,000 annual guardian fee." and.

Trivia
The definition of "trivia" here at Wikipedia, as established in a number of discussions is exactly what the "In Popular Culture" section is. It's even in "bullet format". Such lists are "discouraged" but allowed. None the less, it fits the established definition of "trivia", should be labeled as such, and carry the "trivia" info tag. The fact is, calling the list here in *THIS* article "In Popular Culture" is disingenuous. As to "consensus", that is decided on an individual basis by case, not Wikipedia wide, and there has been no "consensus" discussion here. The relevant issue is applicability of an allowed definition. And, an honest view is the information in the "In Popular Culture" section is in fact random factoids - in other words, "trivia". Again, "Trivia" is a valid and allowable section title for which there is absolutely zero Wikipedia-wide "consensus" against. Seriously, don't argue Wikipedia-wide consensus pro-"In Popular Culture" as an acceptable synonym for "trivia" unless you have a policy-level discussion to back it up (there is none). =//= Johnny Squeaky 06:14, 29 December 2013 (UTC)
 * As to the "off topic" comment left on my personal talk page: Discussions about me are entirely irrelevant to discussions about "trivia". You may attempt to change or deflect the discussion away from the actual topic, but in we are talking about "trivia" not "Johnny Squeaky". =//= Johnny Squeaky 06:51, 29 December 2013 (UTC)


 * I'm afraid when an editor has caused so much disruption and been repeatedly blocked for the same thing over and over you will find yourself as the topic. You have no consensus. Span (talk) 14:32, 29 December 2013 (UTC)


 * Just face it nobody agrees with you. So far you are the only one who wants to change it vs. SummerPhd and myself. I'm not sure if Spanglej was voting against you or just commenting on your intolerable behavior. If it was info such as.. Leona Helmsley eats chocolate ice cream. Then I would agree with you that it is trivia, but the section talks about her in "popular culture". I don't know what your obsession is with trivia (nor do I care), but edit warring, calling people who edit against you vandals, and harassing people on their talk page is not going to gain you any allies in your crusade. TheycallmetheDoctor (talk) 06:52, 30 December 2013 (UTC)

As you sated on Megatron talk page:It's now been more than 24 hours and the consensus is against you so I am changing it back to "In popular culture" TheycallmetheDoctor (talk) 06:57, 30 December 2013 (UTC)

"In Popular Culture" should have this;

`The World Wrestling Entertainment executive and wrestler Triple H (Hunter Hearst Helmsley) who was originally portrayed as an obnoxious rich playboy from Connecticut, is named partly after William Randolph Hearst and Leona Helmsley' ?

Unencyclopedic section and title
"Queen of Mean": "Lawyer Alan Dershowitz said he once had breakfast with Leona at one of the Helmsley hotels and the waiter brought him a cup of tea with a tiny bit of water spilled on the saucer. Dershowitz says Leona grabbed the cup from him and smashed it on the floor, then demanded that the waiter get down on his hands and knees and beg for his job. Helmsley had a barbecue pit constructed for her home. The work was performed by Eugene Brennan, a personal friend of Jeremiah McCarthy, the chief engineer of Helmsley-Spear. When the final bill came to $13,000, she refused to pay, citing shoddy workmanship. When McCarthy pleaded with her to honor the bill, citing the favor done on his behalf and informing her that Brennan had six children to support, Helmsley replied, "Why didn't he keep his pants on? Then he wouldn't need the money."" 89.8.208.116 (talk) 20:27, 16 May 2016 (UTC)
 * I just removed the section that has been reverted - without explanation. The two stories removed might in one or more contexts in this article, be able to illustrate a point of two. However, "Queen of Mean" is not an encyclopedic title. The section is hardly anything more than a "This person had a nasty personality, and here are two stories that illustrate this" section. 178.232.18.97 (talk) 17:41, 17 May 2016 (UTC)

The content is sourced and Helmsley was notoriously described as the "Queen of Mean" in the press. It was even part of the title of a movie about her. We don't remove well-sourced content that has been in the article for years just because we don't like it. Per WP:BRD, one of you made a Bold move, and it was Reverted. Do not remove the content unless a new consensus has been reached. Doc  talk  23:18, 17 May 2016 (UTC)

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External links modified
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The song "rich man's world" by immortal technique includes a shout out to Leona.
This could probably go under pop culture. 2604:3D09:D78:1000:1075:CB3:E575:5AA1 (talk) 15:46, 16 April 2024 (UTC)