Talk:Leonard W. Murray

Review with the intention of reaching FA by mid-March 2023
Since the original GA 10 years ago, I have put a lot of work into new content, detail, references, and overall style improvements. I feel it is now ready for FA status and we are aiming for FA posting on 8 May 2023. Please add discussion of the FA review below here. Friendofleonard (talk) 02:58, 13 February 2023 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the opportunity to review your Wiki article on Adm Murray. It is a masterful job, comprehensive and well written.
 * I have two quibbles. The destroyers for bases deal involved only Caribbean bases.  Newfoundland and Bermuda were separate 99-year leases, but since the two happened about the same time they are usually rolled together.
 * Second, the CNA did not extend to the MOMP – full control of the mid-ocean is what the British were after. The Canadian zone ran from 47 degrees west (a little west  of Cape Farewell, Greenland) to the middle of the gulf of Maine.
 * Apart from that it seems good to go. Certainly first rate work. Well done.  I am happy to endorse it. 74.14.156.147 (talk) 14:22, 8 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank you for the recommendations and the endorsement. The suggested changes have been made Friendofleonard (talk) 14:23, 8 March 2023 (UTC)

Start to B class Review
I have reviewed this article for the Military History project and feel that it is currently a Start class article. I believe that it could be improved by addressing the following points:


 * Referencing: For a successful B class assessment, each paragraph (or even better, fact) needs an inline citation, currently there are large sections of text without a citation;✅
 * Coverage: The article could be expanded to discuss the subjects earlier and later life in more detail. You probably only need another sentence on early life - something like "Leonard Warren Murray was born at..., to Joe Bloggs and his wife, Mary" (obviously substituting the correct names). You will need a whole section on Later life, though as there is a gap between 1945 and 1971 that is not touched upon in the text;✅
 * Grammar: currently there are some very long paragraphs, these need to be broken up into shorter, more defined paragraphs;
 * Style: the hyphens should conform with WP:DASH, also per the WP:MOS headings shouldn't be wikilinked and shouldn't begin with the word 'The';✅
 * Format of References section: I'd suggest breaking up your references section into two sections (one called Notes or Citations (where you include the specific page number citations) and a References section where you include the full bibliographic details. For an example, see for instance Arthur Henry Cobby, which is a Featured Article and therefore will give you some ideas of a decent (but albeit, only suggested) format.✅

Anyway, I hope this helps. It looks like you are putting in a big effort. Keep up the good work and I think this article has potential to progress to at least a B class, if not higher. Well done. — AustralianRupert (talk) 04:50, 29 July 2009 (UTC)


 * I have reviewed the article again and believe that it is nearly a B class article. It just requires a couple more citations, I believe✅. I have added the tags where I feel the citations are required. Another improvement (but one that is not necessary for a B class rating) is to format the web citations using the cite web template, this will remove the long strings of html that can take the readers eye off the content✅. Hope this helps. Once you have added in the citations, please feel free to seek re-assessment. This can be done by going to WP:MHA and adding it to the list. As I have been involved with the article a bit now, it should probably be someone else who does the next re-assessment. Cheers. Keep up the good work. — AustralianRupert (talk) 05:41, 12 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Looks good now, well done. One more suggestion, though, (and again it shouldn't affect a B class rating), but the citations that are to the same source can be consolidated per WP:NAMEDREFS. This will mean that the notes section is not so long. I think that it is probably up to a B class standard now, so I'd suggest trying to get someone else to review and see what they say. Either that or submit it for a peer review at WP:PR. Cheers. — AustralianRupert (talk) 04:43, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

Did You Know candidate
Once this article is completed (or at least up to B class standard), I feel that it would be a good candidate for a Did You Know nomination, focused upon Murray being the only Canadian to command an Allied theatre of operations in World War II. If it is approved, it would mean that a small "hook" sentence about the article would appear on the main page for about six hours (I think) and should help to increase the hits at least for a little. The nomination can be done at Template talk:Did you know. Either the author, or someone else can do the nomination (I do not mind doing it). — AustralianRupert (talk) 09:11, 2 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Okay, it seems like the article probably won't be eligible. Apparently there is a five day rule (i.e. it has to have been created in the past five days, or expanded fivefold in the past five days). My mistake, sorry. — AustralianRupert (talk) 09:45, 2 August 2009 (UTC)


 * No worries mate - thanks for the kind thought anyway. This week I will build up the 1941-1945 section, which is the significant period from the viewpoint of historial value, and then ask you again to assess - if that<s alrightFriendofleonard (talk) 02:44, 3 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes, that will be fine. — AustralianRupert (talk) 06:49, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

Peer Review
Recommendations:

1. Change wording of ships Murray served, from "on" to "in", correct naval terminology. Example; "Murray first served as a Midshipman in (on) the Royal Navy vessel HMS Berwick protecting British interests in the Mexican Revolution," 

2. Change introductory paragraph to highlight Murray's greatest accomplishment first.

" Rear-Admiral Leonard Warren Murray, CB, CBE (22 June 1896 – 25 November 1971) served in the Royal Canadian Navy (RCN) and was the only Canadian to command an Allied theatre of war during the Second World War, when he was appointed Commander-in-Chief Canadian North West Atlantic (CNWA) and Deputy Commander U.S. Task Force 24. (Source -https://www.canada.ca/en/navy/corporate/history-heritage/canadian-naval-heroes/leonard-murray.html) Drawing on his operational and administrational experiences gained during the First World War, inter-war period and early in the Second World War, Murray successfully lead Canadian, British, American and other Allied Naval and Air Forces forces to Victory in the Battle of the Atlantic.

3. Para 4, Line 5 "At the outbreak of World War I, Midshipman Murray was assigned to the protected cruiser HMCS Niobe, the largest ship in the Royal Canadian Navy at that time." Change to - Immediately following the outbreak of World War I, Midshipman Murray was assigned to the protected cruiser HMCS Niobe on 4 August 1914 (citation- https://navalandmilitarymuseum.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/CFB-Esquimalt-Museum-Navy-List-1914-November.pdf), the largest Royal Canadian Navy ship at that time.

4. Para 4, Line 11 "After HMCS Niobe was decommissioned in July 1915, Murray served briefly as Flotilla Gunnery Officer on HMCS Margaret. In February 1916 Murray was promoted to Sub-Lieutenant while aboard HMCS Rainbow, thereby serving on three of Canada's six ships in the early years of World War I." Note; Canada had more than six ships by 1916 and actually finished WWI with 134 ships in commission. The Navy Lists show Murrays promotion to (acting) Sub-Lieutenant was 1 Dec 1915, before joining HMCS MARGARET. Suggested rewrite, "Following HMCS NIOBE's paying off in July 1915, Murray was promoted to (Acting Sub-Lieutenant on 1 December 1915 and briefly served in HMCS MARGARET in 1916 as the Flotilla Gunnery Officer before being transferred to HMCS RAINBOW on Canada's West Coast. This provided Murray with valuable experience in wartime operations on both Canada's Atlantic and Pacific coasts. (Citation -Pg 113 https://www.blatherwick.net/documents/Royal%20Canadian%20Navy%20Citations/M%20-%20RCN%20-%20WW2.pdf) (Citation -Canadian Navy List April 1916 pg 13 https://navalandmilitarymuseum.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/CFB-Esquimalt-Museum-Navy-List-1916-April.pdf)

5. Photo -HMS IRON DUKE -Caption "As Commander and Executive Officer, the gunnery training vessel Iron Duke was the largest vessel Murray commanded during his career." Murray held the rank of Commander while in IRON DUKE, his position was Executive Officer, or second in command. Suggested Rewrite -In December 1937 Commander Murray was assigned to HMS IRON DUKE as Executive Officer. The former battleship, now gunnery training vessel was the largest ship that Murray served in during his naval career. Skipper368 (talk) 23:31, 16 February 2023 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the recommendations, all edits now made Friendofleonard (talk) 22:21, 18 February 2023 (UTC)