Talk:Leonardo

Requested move 16 February 2023

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion. 

The result of the move request was: moved. (non-admin closure) BilledMammal (talk) 11:29, 23 February 2023 (UTC)

– The given name is important, but there are a lot people called just Leonardo, not mentioning Da Vinci, and a lot of things also, including a big company like Leonardo S.p.A. MrKeefeJohn (talk) 10:03, 16 February 2023 (UTC) The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
 * Leonardo (disambiguation) → Leonardo
 * Leonardo → Leonardo (given name)
 * Support while the given name may be primary by long-term significance it clearly not by usage, the character has 9,532 views, the 2021 TV series has 5,837 and the 2011 TV series has 1,147[].  Crouch, Swale  ( talk ) 18:35, 16 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Support per nomination and Crouch, Swale. There are 31 entries listed upon the Leonardo (disambiguation) page, with no indication that a list of men bearing this name holds WP:PRIMARYTOPIC status above the combined notability of the remaining 30 entries. —Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 20:09, 16 February 2023 (UTC)
 * A small detail: Leonardo (name) is also available. Rotideypoc41352 (talk · contribs) 23:14, 16 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Weak Oppose, on the grounds that practically all other uses of "Leonardo" on that list are named, in one way or another, for Leonardo da Vinci. But I guess if "Columbus" is not Christopher Columbus, then my opposition is not on strong legs. But the competition for "Leonardo" isn't nearly as strong (no "other Leonardo" on this list is as notable as big cities like Columbus, OH). Leonardo da Vinci easily outstrips all others put together by miles. Walrasiad (talk) 06:27, 17 February 2023 (UTC)
 * https://wikinav.toolforge.org/?language=en&title=Leonardo shows that there were only 170 outgoing clicks to the hatnote out of 1500 incoming views (~11%), which is very much moot. I don't quite understand what the real problem here would be. I especially don't understand how Da Vinci factors negatively into this, as the mononymous use of his name actually implies that a name set index is more appropriate than a generic set index. If it was a person called John Smith but everyone knew them as Leonardo that would be a case of saying it's not relevant as a name, but in fact it was actually that name that was used. The average reader will be most likely to understand Leonardo to be a human name, and the mass of all the notable people named that way contributes to the long-term significance of the name and makes that method of navigation most appropriate. Here's a link to massviews where we can see DiCaprio, da Vinci, Bonucci are all substantially more popular compared to the Italian company, and then half a dozen other people and characters of comparable popularity to the TV series. --Joy (talk) 08:45, 17 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Oppose. Da Vinci is approaching primary topic and he has pride of place on the given name page. -- Necrothesp (talk) 14:22, 22 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Are you counterproposing a primary redirect to Leo da Vinci's article, then? Red   Slash  05:07, 23 February 2023 (UTC)
 * No. I didn't say that. -- Necrothesp (talk) 10:29, 23 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Easy support. Maybe, maybe, LDV has primary topic (I really doubt it), but definitely definitely it's not the name itself, lmao. It's a name. Nobody's typing in "Leonardo" into Wikipedia looking for "ooh, I wonder what the etymology of Leonardo is". Actually, scratch that, some people probably are, but not as many as are looking for other topics such as the artist or the company. Red   Slash  05:09, 23 February 2023 (UTC)
 * The article about the name is largely a navigation mechanism, a set index, it typically isn't just about the name itself. We don't quite have proof for the assertion that many people are looking for other topics, because WikiNav data shows that out of 1500 incoming views of the list, only 67 went to the company (<5%). I'm not sure which artist you're referring to, but a list of artists named Leonardo are an anthroponymy index, not general disambiguation index. Thinking about this, this set index is already mixed because it lists TV series and the company together with people, so I'm not even sure if we should be arguing for the existence of two indices that are basically the same thing. --Joy (talk) 09:10, 23 February 2023 (UTC)

followup to move discussion
https://wikinav.toolforge.org/?language=en&title=Leonardo indicates a nice spread of traffic, and curiously Leonardo DiCaprio appears in the top 10, without actually being listed. This seems to confirm my suspicion that the WP:NAMELIST blanket exclusion of popular biographies adversely impacts navigation. --Joy (talk) 19:35, 18 December 2023 (UTC)