Talk:Leonora Braham

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Middle name
She was born Leonora Abraham in 1853 with no middle name listed. Later records vary as to her middle name, either Lucy (according to the 1881 census where she appears under her married name as Leonora Lucy Barnes) or Phillipa [sic] (according to the 1878 marriage index). But Lucy was one of her husband's names, not her own.Bkesselman (talk) 08:03, 28 October 2021 (UTC)


 * Bkesselman, would you kindly add citations to the birth/census/marriage records to the article? Thanks!  -- Ssilvers (talk) 15:43, 28 October 2021 (UTC)


 * Ssilvers Not sure where and how you would like them, but here they are:

Birth as Leonora Abraham 1853 (no middle name)- FreeBMD. England & Wales, Civil Registration Birth Index, 1837-1915

Marriage to Frederic Edwin L Barnes 1878 as Leonora Phillipa [sic] Braham (father's name being Philip)- FreeBMD. England & Wales, Civil Registration Marriage Index, 1837-1915

Father name Philip Abraham- Class: RG 9; Piece: 103; Folio: 14; Page: 34; GSU roll: 542574 -Ancestry.com. 1861 England Census [database on-line]. Provo, UT, USA: Ancestry.com Operations Inc, 2005. -Original data: Census Returns of England and Wales, 1861. Kew, Surrey, England: The National Archives of the UK (TNA): Public Record Office (PRO), 1861.

1881 Census living with parents Philip and Harriet Abraham as Leonora Lucy Barnes- Class: RG11; Piece: 188; Folio: 9; Page: 11; GSU roll: 1341042 -Ancestry.com and The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. 1881 England Census [database on-line]. Provo, UT, USA: Ancestry.com Operations Inc, 2004. -1881 British Isles Census Index provided by The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints

The Article itself states that Frederick Edwin Barnes' 3rd name was Lucy, though his birth record omits that name. Let me know if you need anything else.Bkesselman (talk) 16:29, 28 October 2021 (UTC)


 * Thanks. I've added the cites.  Do you have any sources that mention her parents' occupations or her mother's maiden name?  And what's the deal with Birkenhead?  Did she have an earlier marriage?  All the best, -- Ssilvers (talk) 06:48, 29 October 2021 (UTC)


 * Don't know about the reason for Birkenhead, however, According to GRO records, Leonora Braham's mother's maiden name was Boss. GRO Reference: 1853 M Quarter in SAINT PANCRAS  Volume 01B  Page 47. - Philip Abraham married Harriet Boss in 1850.  Harriet appears in later records as Henrietta. I can't find an earlier marriage for Leonora, however according to composers-classical-music.com/b/BarnesFrederickEdwin her first husband, Frederick Edwin Lucy Barnes accidentally shot and killed himself when he was 23 while they were in Canada. The Liverpool Weekly Courier of Saturday 20 April 1878 annouced their marriage (April 16), and refers to him as Frederick E. Lucy Barnes, which, I think, confirms that Lucy was part of his name not hers. He was, according to geocities.ws/alanjonesski/barnes_f_e_l organist (and composer) of  St Margaret’s, Princes Square, Liverpool, which may possibly explain why they were married in nearby Birkenhead, but this needs more work. Hope that helps.Bkesselman (talk) 11:29, 29 October 2021 (UTC)
 * I added the ref. "The Liverpool Weekly Courier of Saturday 20 April 1878" -- do you know the page number?  When references are in paper and don't have urls it is helpful to include the page number. -- Ssilvers (talk) 19:11, 29 October 2021 (UTC)

Yes, the marriage announcement is on page 6 of The Liverpool Weekly Courier of Saturday 20 April 1878. Bkesselman (talk) 07:38, 30 October 2021 (UTC)


 * Thanks, I added the page number to the cite. -- Ssilvers (talk) 18:09, 30 October 2021 (UTC)

Royal Academy of Music
Hi, Bkesselman. We mention the RAM early in the article, but we don't say that she attended the Academy. Did she? Do you see a source for that, or for any more information about her early life or training? Any siblings? All the best! -- Ssilvers (talk) 18:13, 30 October 2021 (UTC)


 * Hi, Ssilvers. Yes, indeed, I can see references to her attending the Royal Academy of Music. The first I can find is on page 10 of the Graphic of Saturday 09 December 1876 where she is listed as having taken part (as a singer) in a Students' Orchestral Concert of the Royal Academy of Music (though it is apparent from other, earlier, papers that she was making professional appearances for the German Reeds as early as 1875). In the Birmingham Daily Post of Wednesday 17 April 1878 (page 7) it is reported that she won the Llewellyn Thomas Gold Medal at the RAM (Llewellyn with 4 letter Ls). -- Best wishes Bkesselman (talk) 12:57, 31 October 2021 (UTC)

It's not mentioned elsewhere that I can see, but (according to The Hour - Monday 29 May 1876, page 3) Dr Llewellyn Thomas was Honorary Consulting Physician to the Royal Academy of Music. Bkesselman (talk) 17:27, 31 October 2021 (UTC)


 * Bkesselman, thanks! In The Graphic and Birmingham Daily Post, do the articles have titles or headings?  Also, if there are titles missing in any of the other newspaper refs, can you find them?  Every ref should state, to the extent the info is avialable, the author name, title, name of the work and/or publlisher, url or page number, and, if an online source, the access date. -- Ssilvers (talk) 06:07, 1 November 2021 (UTC)

Hi, All newspaper items accessed from the British Newspaper Archive britishnewspaperarchive.co.uk on the dates of my comments here. I'll look to find urls and also titles for the columns if they exist. All items were anonymous. Bkesselman (talk) 07:41, 1 November 2021 (UTC)


 * Thanks! The titles would be great!  Don't need BNA urls if you have page numbers. -- Ssilvers (talk) 23:53, 1 November 2021 (UTC)