Talk:Lesbian feminism/Archive 2

May 5, 2006.
May 5, 2006. Slightly offensive, I quote "A large portion of lesbians are feminists, but only a smaller fraction of those lesbians who are feminists could be classified as lesbian feminists."

This is actually borderline homophobic, certainly inaccurate. It also fails to distinguish between lesbian feminism as a cultural movement and lesbian feminism as a critical perspective. Which is important (e.g. separatism was certainly not advocated by all lesbian feminists - did not define the whole movement, although certainly it was important). No reference to other schools of thought/contemporary lesbian gay movement. No sourcing. Out of all proportion to attention given to queer theory etc.,

Permission to fully rework! lookatyougo


 * You do not need to seek permission. As long as you upheld Neutral point of view policy, you can go for your life. Dysprosia 04:45, 6 May 2006 (UTC)

ta. Bit of a mess at the mo. Be done this week tho. May 8. lookatyougo

At end of "Tensions with Feminism" section: "Nevertheless, it is worth surmising that since lesbian feminism was often confined to feminist disciplines, and arguably, seemed quite happy with this arrangement." This isn't a sentence. I was going to edit but I'm not sure what it's supposed to say - e.g. since a particular date? when? If anyone knows... thanks! Rhoganjosh 17:35, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

Unsourced
This article is unsourced. I added a "References" section. This article needs expansion, and addition of citations from reputable secondary sources... Smee 12:40, 4 May 2007 (UTC).


 * You're right Smee, this is a bad case of no sources and possibly opinion--Cailil talk 19:14, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

The opinion/commentary that BDSM is "traditionally" rejected by lesbian feminists is unsourced; nor do I think it can be sourced as strikes me as revisionist/created "history". The summation of lesbian feminism's take on transsexuality is nearly unsourced, which is a shame as there are diverse opinions on TGs within lesbian separatism rather than the slightly misrepresented views of the one source offered (Sheila Jeffreys). The offered association of SRS with S&M is not to my knowledge an accurate representation of either SJeffreys or lesbian feminism (and it insinuates a laughably ignorant stereotype of BDSM and S&M, both of which are practiced by some feminists and have been discussed more intelligently by many.) -CloudsB Jan 2009 —Preceding unsigned comment added by CloudsB (talk • contribs) 06:09, 2 January 2009 (UTC)

PoMo Generated?
Just curious but was the following written by the Postmodernism Generator?


 * This draws on and deploys a historical focus on "homosexuality" as a site for scrutiny, especially where there is a focus on origins. Correlatively, lesbian feminist texts worked to denaturalise heterosexuality, and once removed, hypothesise its "roots" in institutions such as patriarchy, capitalism and colonialism. — Preceding unsigned comment added by TimeDog (talk • contribs) 16:02, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

The Word CHOICE...
the article says one of the key seven themes is that lesbianism is about CHOICE and resistance. this is important because it is evidence that some (not all, but definitely some) lesbians are actually bisexual women who "choose" lesbianism due to a hatred and/or fear of men. people in the LGBT community often say that sexual orientation isn't a choice, and for men i certainly agree that about 98-99 percent of gay men are actually gay. however in regards to women the number is probably much lower in regards to women who identify as lesbian. i can tell you from personal experience also that many "lesbian" women are actually sexist bisexual women, or women that have been sexually abused and choose to be lesbian due to a fear or hatred of men. maybe this info should be added into the article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.90.81.20 (talk) 12:05, 26 September 2010 (UTC)


 * Please keep your personal comments to yourself. We cannot publish content based on your personal experience. We can only follow what is already published in reliable sources, per our verifiability policy. -Andrew c [talk] 16:03, 7 October 2010 (UTC)

Request to delete phrase "...and typically, spend more time avoiding men."

 * I request to delete the following phrase, which I have bolded.

"Furthermore lesbianism is posited as a feminist strategy, that enables women to invest their energies in other women, creating new space and dialogue about women's relationships, and typically, spend more time avoiding men."

I'm not sure what the writer intended by it, and perhaps I am reading it wrong, but it seems to have a snarky tone to it which seems to me to trivialize the information it is conveying. Why phase it as "spending more time avoiding men" rather than "and limit their dealings with men", or something else more in the spirit of the rest of the sentence?

It's an odd sentence regardless. There's a not-so-positive word used to describe white folks who wish to "limit their dealings with black people". Lesbian-Feminism as a movement isn't really all that much better than the KKK, except for the fact that it doesn't (usually) condone violence.24.108.2.225 (talk) 23:13, 1 September 2011 (UTC)

Would anyone mind if I removed this phrase, or replaced it? Any suggestions? Kootenayvolcano 06:01, 10 August 2007 (UTC)

Most Women Sexually Abused
Why is there no mention of this? Most lesbian feminists I've known were sexually abused/raped by a male at some point in their lives. These women are usually bisexual (sometimes even heterosexual) sexist women who view men in a negative light due to horrible experiences, usually during childhood or adolescence.

Analog 9 (talk) 05:26, 8 February 2012 (UTC)
 * To this untrue statement, I'll have to repeat what Andrew c says to the previous POV post. "Please keep your personal comments to yourself. We cannot publish content based on your personal experience. We can only follow what is already published in reliable sources, per our verifiability policy." -- JoannaSerah (talk) 13:12, 8 February 2012 (UTC)

Lesbian Feminists of Color
My friends and I will attempt to edit the article a bit and add information about lesbian feminists of color. Any advice and/or suggestions are welcome. Thanks a lot in advance. Mila ja mila (talk) 14:55, 27 January 2016 (UTC)

We have been advised to try to expand the article (particularly, as Mila said, we are interested in lesbian feminists of color) instead of creating a new single section. Any advice will be greatly appreciated. Belen Sianetha (talk) 16:20, 27 January 2016 (UTC)

But I think we should add a section too. We will try to improve the whole article from the perspective of diversity but I guess we can add a section on diversity issues in lesbian feminism too. Mila ja mila (talk) 19:13, 11 February 2016 (UTC)

The new section can have the following outline Section name: Lesbian Feminism of Color Subsections: Chicana Movement, Black Lesbian Feminism, "Theory in Flesh"Mila ja mila (talk) 21:55, 14 February 2016 (UTC)

We can also add a new subsection in Key Ideas on Intersectionality Belen Sianetha (talk) 21:58, 14 February 2016 (UTC)

Mila and Belen, I'm wondering if this statement could be revised: "A new vocabulary emerged more generally, sometimes referencing lost or unspoken matriarchal civilisations, Amazonian warriors, ancient – especially Greek – goddesses, sometimes parts of the female anatomy and often references to the natural world." Under "Womyn's Culture," it seems one of the few places where evidence isn't given. For instance, Wonder Woman (Amazon princess), WW's lasso of truth, Xena (Greek warrior princess), Xena's Chakram (an 0-shaped ranged weapon that only women can use), Goddess Diana (basis of all-female wikka circles) all seem to be referenced here, in terms of identification. This is a place where you could link to pages on all of those issues. Jon Stansell (talk) 18:13, 20 February 2016 (UTC)

Suggested Improvements
The first sentence under Key Ideas could be a bit more coherent in terms of reader-friendly accessibility. LouisBaragona (talk) 20:54, 7 March 2016 (UTC)

Transgenderism doesn't seem like the correct term, and is linked to the article 'transgender.' Maybe a change in wording would add clarity. LouisBaragona (talk) 20:54, 7 March 2016 (UTC)

The section of Lesbian Feminists of Color could use some additions in terms of providing the specific viewpoints of different mentioned influencers. LouisBaragona (talk) 20:54, 7 March 2016 (UTC)

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Biology, choice, and social constuction
The above section seems rather off-putting. I'm not sure what this section is trying to accomplish, but to me it comes off as homophobic.The line "Sexual orientation is posited here as a choice, or at least a conscious response," doesn't really fit or help the section at all. Plus it is widely believed and proven that sexuality is not a choice.

Blake O&#39;Connell (talk) 17:43, 11 October 2016 (UTC)

contribution and McCann and Lorde
The following was added by an editor to the feminist movement article, into the History section (except that another editor debolded in it):

=== Lesbian Sexuality ===

Women know that they are a lesbian are aware that there is more to them than being a sexual preference. Women know it is a political choice. The relationships between men and women are not the same between a woman and a woman. When it comes to a relationship between a man and a women it is all about power and superiority. When women discard men they choose women because that's not the type of relationship a woman wants. The lesbian declines men sexuality and political domination, she does not care for his power or his dominance. According to Charlotte Bunch Lesbianism threatens men authority at it's very essence. When the Lesbian thinks she free, since she believes she flee the personal abuse the man and woman relationship, to the community she is just an out in the open Lesbian. Woman like that are harassed and considered and outcast. Lesbians have to become feminist so they can fight and overcome woman abuse, so they can end the men's influence.

Audre Lorde focuses on I AM YOUR SISTER:BLACK WOMEN ORGANIZING ACROSS SEXUALITIES because she felt it was better to not misspend other women's resources, so that we can know each sister on her their own terms and come together and work on survival. When she says she is a Black Feminists, she recognizing her power and my unjust treatment as a black person and women. That's what makes these fights indivisible. A black lesbian main focus is loving somatic as well as emotionally to a women. Most times Black Lesbians are trying to free themselves from their black men from trying to attack them. Apparently the straight sisters talk about certain men that they are linked too. This is how it indicates a setting of non communication in the heterosexual Black community that seems alarming than it's existence of Black Lesbians.

I'm moving it here for discussion. Probably something should go into the feminist movement article, since that article is a summary, but most of this contribution, if it is a good addition anywhere, would belong in this article instead. Since this article seems already well-edited and I'm not up to date on the subject, I'd rather leave this for discussion by editors here. I don't have the sources.

Nick Levinson (talk) 01:52, 31 December 2016 (UTC) (reformatted by adding a line break: 01:58, 31 December 2016 (UTC))

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