Talk:Lester Coleman/Archive 3

Lester Coleman arrested in Tallahassee
Lester Coleman was arrested by the Leon County Sherriff on July 17, 2012 on 1 charge each of Fraud - Impersonation use/poss ID of another and stalking harrassment.  Dawholetruth2 (talk) 20:30, 22 August 2012 (UTC).
 * Charges dropped by State Attorney, 2nd Judicial Circuit, 06-23-2013.
 * If it makes the newspapers, it can go in the article. WhisperToMe (talk) 16:41, 7 November 2012 (UTC)
 * This incident was expunged by Florida 2nd Judicial Circuit, State Attorney, Willie Meggs after the Neuroscience Center, Tallahassee Memorial Hospital [ Dr. Charles Maitland, M.D.] diagnosed Lester Coleman with Progressive Supra-Nuclear Palsy, a rare terminal Brain Disease ( see actor, Dudley Moore, 2002 ). — Preceding unsigned comment added by Acton211 (talk • contribs) 02:51, 28 September 2013 (UTC)


 * Note the above should be treated as one more in a long line of instances where SPA's provide false references. -- Neil N  talk to me  09:22, 6 December 2013 (UTC)
 * I personally can't find either the purported arrest online, nor the expungement (nor the medical issue) which is all kind of normal, because it's private information. It's not in the newspaper.  So why have it in the talk page.  What's the point?  Are we "A Dickens Christmas Carol", or what?  A moral inventory of anyone with a BLP, to be google-badmouthed?  Let's have a merry Christmas, and not visit the ghost of the ugly Christmas-past, and give the guy a break.Sure Footed1 (talk) 09:47, 16 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Correction. I found a 3rd-party submission, and like everything else in this story, "it's weird, it's complicated, and it's tied to the whole MH v. LC allegation aka spy vs. spy". Possibly state-related, possibly not.  But in any event, posting a one-sided view of the affair isn't nice, nor is it fair to LC. Sure Footed1 (talk) 09:47, 16 December 2013 (UTC)

I can now comment in my own name as I am no longer trying to avoid harrassment by Coleman. Previoulsy posted as Dawholetruth2. This is not weird or untrue. Lester Coleman was arrested as indicated above. This has ivolved a 2 year investigation involving forensics. After a 4 year struggle against his victimization, the case has not been expunged for any reason except that he has been diagnosed with a Neuro condition. Proof of all the above available if you tell me how to provide it. I am not a regular contributor, only on occasion when I see this article go way off track. One of Coleman's alias' is Duane Ivanovich Mack (https://www.facebook.com/duane.i.mack?fref=ts) the name he is using to edit as a current contributor. All this can be verified by the State Prosecutor of this case. I have tried to keep a low profile so there is no newspaper article - is that what it takes to make it a true event? This is fact, part of Coleman's history and should be reflected as such. http://mugshots.com/gallery/item/20954928-6899/ Celiatimpany (talk) 07:47, 22 December 2013 (UTC) arrest record as well as comments by D. Mack.Celiatimpany (talk) 07:42, 22 December 2013 (UTC)

The arrest of Lester Coleman is now a matter of public record. This should now be included in the article http://www.scribd.com/doc/207871936/State-Attorney-Letter and results of the forensic examination of hardware seized from Coleman http://www.scribd.com/doc/207872209/Contents-of-Coleman-ComputersCeliatimpany (talk) 02:45, 19 February 2014 (UTC)
 * We're not using legal documents hosted on scribd. See WP:BLPPRIMARY. -- Neil N  talk to me  03:36, 19 February 2014 (UTC)


 * Uh, what part of "Do not use trial transcripts and other court records, or other public documents, to support assertions about a living person." is unclear? -- Neil N  talk to me  05:40, 19 February 2014 (UTC)

Lester Coleman awarded Defense Intelligence Director's Award of Merit
23 April, 1994, Kelley Barracks, Stuttgart, Germany. Presented by General Daniel Graham, USA RET.

Lester Coleman received the Defense Intelligence Director's Award of Merit for his role in the bombing of Tripoli, Libya, April, 1986, RE OPERATION EL DORADO CANYON. — Preceding unsigned comment added by DIAMC10 (talk • contribs) 17:58, 19 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Oooh, it's a picture of something anyone can fake! Please read WP:RS. -- Neil N  talk to me  18:03, 19 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Didn't even get the name right. Even if this is authentic, it's an award to "Lester Coleman III" not "II". DMacks (talk) 18:23, 19 June 2014 (UTC)
 * LOL! I nomindated it for deletion at Commons, BTW. -- Neil N  talk to me  18:25, 19 June 2014 (UTC)

ALERT: User Neil is a govt pet, affiliated with Micheal T. Hurley, DEA Ret. who was exposed in Trail of The Octopus by Authors Donald Goddard $ Lester K Coleman. They have even created a Facebook page titled LESTER CONMAN " Neil and suspect user DMacks should be banned from wikipedia.  This is nothing less than cyberbullying, a crime.  Wikipedia administrators are urged to open an investigation.
 * Obviously more garbage. --Neil N  talk to me 22:54, 3 July 2014 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 23 June 2014
There are several errors, with attribution. He is Lester Knox Coleman, III, not II, as listed. Coleman's hometown is not Panama city, but Pensacola, DOB 25 Sept. 1948, Naval Air station ( Main side ) Pensacola, FL Coleman retired as Professor Emeritus, American University College of Technology, Halate-Fiddor, Lebanon, 2010. From 1984 - 1990 Coleman served the US Defense Intelligence Agency. He received the DIA Director's Medal of Merit for his role in Operation El Dorado Canyon, in April, 1986, attack on Tripoli, Libya. He lives in Jounieh, Lebanon, and suffers from the rare brain disorder that took the life of actor, Dudley Moore, Progressive Supra Nuclear Palsy. There should be links to the RKO Radio Network Page, the 10th Special Forces Group page, the Pierre Salinger page..

DIAMC10 (talk) 16:47, 23 June 2014 (UTC)
 * No sources (as usual). Nothing to see here. --Neil N  talk to me 17:14, 23 June 2014 (UTC)

As usual, and the primary reason Wikipedia has lost credibility. They continue to avoid research to assure article accuracy. Consequently, the subject's name of this article is incorrect, a simple error, easily corrected, but Wiki-editors ( re User Talk et al ) could not be bothered, contributing to this site's crumbling credibility. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.35.244.34 (talk) 00:26, 26 June 2014 (UTC) https://www.facebook.com/groups/339988999491883/
 * Instead of presenting us with a kernel of truth mixed in with garbage, it would be much better if you just gave links to your sources. I've changed the name to "III" based on the source I found. The medal and the rest of the stuff is still unsourced claptrap, though. --Neil N  <i style="color:blue">talk to me</i> 01:32, 26 June 2014 (UTC)

After reviewing your cyberbullying evidenced on Facebook Lester Conman, I shall not bother with the comments made by you. Sarcastic remarks such as describing efforts to add credence to an article as "Garbage" reflects on the lack of academic research and accuracy. — Preceding unsigned comment added by DIAMC10 (talk • contribs) 05:24, 27 June 2014 (UTC)

www.facebook.com/groups/339988999491883/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by DIAMC10 (talk • contribs) 22:27, 3 July 2014 (UTC)

Wish to add the following link that verifies coleman relation to US Defense Intelligence Agency HUMINT, etc. http://bookmobile.american-buddha.com/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=10&start=28  — Preceding unsigned comment added by DIAMC10 (talk • contribs) 17:32, 17 July 2014 (UTC)

Wish to add the following new book link that supports Lester Coleman: DIAMC10 http://www.amazon.com/INTIKAM-Revenge-Billy-Grant-Roullard-ebook/dp/B00JTYSTOM/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1405618480&sr=8-1&keywords=intikam
 * A forum and a self-published book. No thanks. --<b style="color:navy">Neil N </b> <i style="color:blue">talk to me</i> 18:23, 17 July 2014 (UTC)

Coleman's claims on Lebanese Forces
On Dec 17, 2007, an anonymous IP editor added the claim that Coleman was "the shadowy Mr. Benjamin who ran a DIA covert operation backing Samir Ghea Ghea, and the Christian Milita in Lebanon, known as the Lebanese Forces," with no sources cited. The claim has stayed in the article since then with a variety of minor changes, and in a variety of locations.

The latest version of the claim was "Coleman has said that he ran a DIA covert operation backing a Christian militia in Lebanon, known as the Lebanese Forces (Samir Ghea Ghea), during the Lebanese Civil War." The most recent versions of the article have given as sources the April 1992 Time magazine article on Pan Am 103 and Paul Foot's review of Coleman's book "The Trail of the Octopus." Neither of these sources mentions this claim. Lacking any sources to show that Coleman claimed such a thing, or that there is any basis for it, I've deleted the sentence.

Let me know if there are any reliable sources which state that Coleman actually said such a thing. Perhaps it is in Trail of the Octopus? There are excerpts of this book on line, but the claim doesn't appear in any of the excerpts that I've found. If it does appear in the book, let me know page and precise quote.

If time permits, I'll take a look at further problems in the article, which is a remarkably complicated mess that both named and anonymous editors have been scrambling for years. I should also note that a number of unsourced claims about Lester Coleman, Les Coleman, and Lex Coleman have also been added in various other articles that I have looked at, such as 10th Special Forces Group (United States) and American University of Technology, some apparently multiple times over quite a period. Hats off to editors NeilN, DMacks, and WhisperToMe who have grappled with this problem for what must seem like umpteen years. Rgr09 (talk) 12:54, 12 April 2015 (UTC)

Bing source
Found this link of interest. FYI Lester Coleman is an African-American. See link: http://www.bing.com/search?q=lester%20knox%20coleman&pc=cosp&ptag=A316A5D3C6E&form=CONMHP&conlogo=CT3210127 68.35.244.34 (talk) 15:43, 24 April 2015 (UTC)
 * FYI Bing's algorithms are not a reliable source. --<b style="color:navy">Neil N </b> <i style="color:blue">talk to me</i> 15:45, 24 April 2015 (UTC)

Manuke7708Agree, algorithms are not a reliable source. Editor should research validity of google post. This article has been hashed and rehashed for years, with confusing results. It seems the wikipedia wall to finding facts is many are not found in published sources. I note this subject has a classified intelligence background, therefore avoidance is a matter of course. Coleman is readily located which raises the question why has not any wikieditor contacted him directly, to be questioned about the article posted about him. This should be a requirement to validate this page and assure credibility. It is noted a line was deleted, prior to my interest, ref. the DIA Director's Award for a role in Operation El Dorado Canyon in April, 1986. Absent of any published source of the award, what does wikipedia do, if this event, did, indeed occur without press coverage? As example of mis-information contained in the article, it states this subject was from Panama City, FL USA, when his public record birth record here clearly documents he was born in Pensacola, FL US Navy Air Station - Mainside Hospital  25 September, 1943. How does Wikipedia confirm and address this error without making an effort to review the public record? Using third party quotes published in a newspaper does not confirm fact, in my view. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Manuke7708 (talk • contribs) 20:06, 24 April 2015 (UTC) Manuke7708 (talk) 20:13, 24 April 2015 (UTC)

REF: AUT affiliation. There are several articles in Arabic and English in Lebanese Newspapers in 2007, 2008, 2009, Dr Lester Coleman, Chairperson, Faculty of Arts and Humanities, American University College of Tecnology aut.edu currently Professor Emeritus. These are easily confirmed with diligent research to assure the article is factual in all aspects. Presently in my view it needs work.
 * There's nothing confusing about the article. Thanks to effort by editors like the article is properly sourced and attempts to add false information are rebuffed. If you have proper sources (not, I read/heard this somewhere; not, go hunt through these newspapers - those tactics have been tried by hoaxers before) then you can list them here. --<b style="color:navy">Neil N </b> <i style="color:blue">talk to me</i> 20:20, 24 April 2015 (UTC)
 * Properly sourced ? How may copies of actual news articles and documents be provided to improve the validity of a wiki article?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Manuke7708 (talk • contribs) 20:32, 24 April 2015 (UTC)
 * At a minimum we need: Name of newspaper, article title, date article published, page number --<b style="color:navy">Neil N </b> <i style="color:blue">talk to me</i> 20:35, 24 April 2015 (UTC)

Coleman's journalism claims
The article originally stated: "Coleman, who lived in Alabama, once served as a news director for WSGN radio in Birmingham, and White House Correspondent for RKO Network, before joining CBS News in Beirut in 1984. In the 1970s and early 1980s Coleman worked in several local newspaper and television departments." The source for these was given as the Alabama Times-Daily story on Coleman's return from Europe in 1992 1996.
 * affirmed: White House Correspondent's Association Newsletter 10 Sept 1979 - 5 January 1981
 * affirmed: Media Liaison Office/The White House/ Washington DC


 * The original reference was "James helps arrange return of fugitive from Europe." Associated Press at the Times Daily. The Wikipedia article on this newspaper is under TimesDaily. The date of the story was Oct. 25, 1996.

That story quotes Coleman's lawyer as speculating that Alabama Gov. Fob James had arranged for Coleman's return because James had previously known Coleman when Coleman was "news-director for WSGN radio in Birmingham." This is at least possible; WSGN was the call-sign of a major Birmingham radio station up until 1985 (see WAGG for its history).

The RKO and CBS news claims, however, are not in the Times-Daily story; they were added by an anonymous IP editor in Feb 2011, when a persistent attack began on this article, with both anonymous IP editors and named editors began adding unsourced or incorrectly sourced material to the article. Various editors and administrators attempted to revert the changes, but they seem to have missed this one. I have deleted the unsourced parts of the claim Rgr09 (talk) 12:37, 11 April 2015 (UTC)


 * Thanks for spotting that, Rgr09. --<b style="color:navy">Neil N </b> <i style="color:blue">talk to me</i> 14:43, 11 April 2015 (UTC)

These news claims deleted here are affirmed on wikipedia's own pages elsewhere on the site.


 * I will check Wikipedia entries for CBS News and RKO news network. If I find information on Coleman (from a reliable source) I will incorporate here. Rgr09 (talk) 03:06, 25 April 2015 (UTC)

Coleman's journalism claims 2

 * Note:, , and the IP user have all been blocked as sockpuppets and/or participants in the ongoing hoaxing.  Georgewilliamherbert (talk) 02:07, 30 April 2015 (UTC)

Regarding whether or not Lester Coleman worked for CBS and RKO, the RKO Radio Network article had a staff list that included a "Les Coleman" but the name was added, without sources, as part of a series of disruptive edits that targeted the Lester Coleman article. I have therefore deleted it. I think it is quite possible that Mr. Coleman did work for RKO, but Wikipedia requires reliable sources for this type of information, especially for BLP articles. The RKO Radio Network article is missing sources for most of the people listed as staff. I will try and remedy this as time permits, and after a reasonable period, say 2 weeks, delete the ones I couldn't find sources for. Rgr09 (talk) 05:23, 25 April 2015 (UTC)


 * I should also note that Manuke7708 recently mentioned the American University College of Technology. Wikipedia does have an article on the American University of Technology, in which someone inserted the claim that the University had a "Coleman - Al Zourey Media Centre" named after "Lex Coleman and "Maroun Al Zourey". I found no evidence for such a centre and therefore deleted the claim. Any reliable sources for this claim would be helpful. As <b style="color:navy">Neil N </b> notes, we need a verifiable citation including paper, article, and dates.


 * In addition, in the article on the 10th Special Forces Group (United States), a claim was inserted that "Lester Coleman" received the "Director's Award of Merit" from the DIA. I recently deleted this unsourced claim and a few days later the claim was re-added, sourced to "www.dia.gov/honorsandawards". There is no such website as www.dia.gov. I view the use of fictious websites as presumptive evidence of bad faith. Rgr09 (talk) 05:57, 25 April 2015 (UTC)

www.dia.gov/honorandawards, does exist, however that subsection requires a secure passcode sequence which can not be provided for publication. Thus, Wikipedia will have to omit Coleman's award under edit attribution guidelines.

Re: AUT in 2008 was elevated to university status from American University College of Technology to American University of Technology. The Media Centrum at AUT was named for Coleman and Al Zourey, while Dr Coleman was Faculty Chair, of Arts and Humanities, ref Academia News, A Lebanese Arabic news publication, Article Headline, " The Journalist, Dr. Les Coleman, AUT Faculty Chair." 26 November, 2007, P. 8. BEIRUT NEWS ARTICLE Beirut article translation Manuke7708 (talk) 21:13, 26 April 2015 (UTC)
 * dia.gov does not exist thus we will assume all your "sources" are falsified. --<b style="color:navy">Neil N </b> <i style="color:blue">talk to me</i> 21:18, 26 April 2015 (UTC)

Assumptions are not attributable fact but User talk:NeilN unverified opinion(s.)  Edit correction:  www.dia.mil /verified. Manuke7708 (talk) 21:35, 26 April 2015 (UTC)

Following site states Coleman is deceased ??? http://theeternalportal.com/tributes/lester-coleman/
 * http://www.dia.mil/honorandawards page not found (what a surprise) and a site where anyone can add entries. Sigh. You hoaxers used to be more inventive. --<b style="color:navy">Neil N </b> <i style="color:blue">talk to me</i> 21:44, 26 April 2015 (UTC)

Reply, as Neil was informed previously, the awards tag on the dia site is pw protected. please stop name calling hoxer and work with those attempted to clarify a very messy article. Confine your critics to words you would say to someone in person. Rude is not a good start. anyone can add entries here, sigh. Interestingly, wikipedia, proudly claims pages are open for editing by anyone, but the lester coleman page is locked. So much for reality and wiki's standing as not being an acceptable source for published academic research. The omissions just in this one article of a deceased person is of concern. Please advise exactly what is verifiable related to the death of this subject, who passed, according to the publication, in 2012. Is there any presentable evidence to contradict that entry? Is there a way to submit official, certified documents located in government archives to enhance the accuracy of a wiki article? Manuke7708 (talk) 16:23, 27 April 2015 (UTC)

ref attribution Les Coleman, RKO Radio Networks : https://soundcloud.com/newsconnection/4-white-house-voicers — Preceding unsigned comment added by Manuke7708 (talk • contribs) 17:32, 27 April 2015 (UTC)

legal@wikimedia.org REF LESTER COLEMAN  wikipedia.org page This page has been locked by volunteer wikieditors believed to be in northern europe. We have made a great deal of effort to correct errors in this page, and others containing errors. Now, we are communicating with wikimedia legal to assist us in correcting this error. LESTER COLEMAN IS DECEASED. 28/06/2010 ( FIVE YEARS AGO ) Verified with the attached Death Certificate issued by the US Embassy, Beirut, Lebanon. Some details have been redacted due to privacy concerns. please on-pass to wikipedia editors who have taken responsibility for this page and have repeatedly ignored announcements posted on the internet, as unverified. VERIFICATION ATTACHED DEATH CERTIFICATE

wikieditor@cyberservices www.cyberservices.com www.worldcom.com — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.35.244.34 (talk) 02:02, 28 April 2015 (UTC)

Lester- Les-Coleman authored a book, titled Squeal, Spoonwood Press, ISBN 0-939026-03-1 ( available: www.amazon.com/books) and won two Emmys for investigative reporting: source: Connecticut Magazine, January, 1983, P 17 Around & About - Inside the Mob This article should be revised accordingly, but unable to do so, article locked. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Talkwiki7708 (talk • contribs) 22:31, 29 April 2015 (UTC)

Coleman Deceased, 28 June, 2010,

 * affirmed: Embassy of the United States-Beirut/ USA Department of State/Archives:US Citizen Death Abroad.

Les DOA copy.JPG/ 28 June, 2010 File# 000102010 == — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dmackarse (talk • contribs) 17:00, 14 August 2015‎ (UTC)


 * If that's supposed to be a link, it doesn't work (and isn't formatted correctly). Looie496 (talk) 17:24, 14 August 2015 (UTC)

Death certificate isn't real,
Looie, you need to read the archives. The death certificate isn't real. Coleman apparently produced and proliferated that himself, as well as a body of other false information. Sure Footed1 (talk) 09:10, 4 February 2016 (UTC)

Coleman won tort for aggregated sentences
When I was reading on this subject, I found that he won a tort for the aggregation of two convictions, which (I believe) had something to do with his being released in 2000. I don't have time to look at it right now, but someone else could. The person posting as LC on Wikipedia claims that his convictions were overturned, but this isn't accurate. The issue was that he shouldn'tve served 185 days in prison, he should have been released immediately. This isn't in the article, partly because he mis-represents the facts, and doesn't reference the ruling, for which I found the primary source on Pacer (don't have it now) but for which there's no secondary source. I don't know know what to do about that, and I don't have time to discuss. But this is why he keeps claiming (wrongly) that his conviction for fraud was overturned. It seems that what acutally happened was that the conviction stayed, but the sentencing should have been 'aggregated' (two sentences, 1997 and 2000) so he got out and got a settlement over that. This (again) is why he keeps claiming there was a tort he won where something got overturned (which is true) but it was his sentence that was overturned, not the conviction (if that makes sense). I don't have time to dig-into this right now. There may have been some secret agreement that backs up his claim, but given his history on this site, it's dubious to AGF. Sure Footed1 (talk) 15:02, 4 February 2016 (UTC)

Reversion
I have reverted a series of about 60 edits made today by. Some of the changes may be justifiable, but others are problematic. Given the fraught history of this article it is necessary to make changes a little at a time, so they can be evaluated individually -- that's not possible when a huge mass of changes are thrown in al at once. I also note that the account that made these edits has not edited on any topic except Lester Coleman since 2013. Looie496 (talk) 15:30, 4 February 2016 (UTC)


 * Yes, I haven't edited Wikipedia for a long time. I did have an agreement with NeilN that I was going to make some changes when I had time (see the talk page where he suggested this, two years ago) so I did.


 * Can you pls be more specific in your arguments as to what I've changed? I tried to make the page a bit more fact-based and less attacking of the subject, who in fact attracted lots of negative attention - as I'm sure you'd agree.   Sure Footed1 (talk) 15:43, 4 February 2016 (UTC)


 * My policy is never to revert an edit more than once without support from other editors, but there are still plenty of people paying attention to this article, and basically you're wasting your time, just as before. Looie496 (talk) 15:53, 4 February 2016 (UTC)


 * Not exactly. When I defended him two years ago, I was clueleessly un-read-up on his archived talk-page. I'm now well-read-up and I see totally where you are coming-from.  I'm ready to stand-up for my edits, if someone wants to go to bat.  And I'm a lot less blue-eyed about the situation, if you will.  Sure Footed1 (talk) 15:55, 4 February 2016 (UTC)

Request for critiques
I think I did a reasonable job of making the article more readable. I'm sure the edits aren't perfect, and I'm happy to stand corrected if someone wants to make corrections. Can the Wikipedia-community please provide comment? Thanks for that. Sure Footed1 (talk) 16:38, 4 February 2016 (UTC)


 * Thanks for your work on the Lester Coleman article. I worked on this last year and still have some interest in the subject, so I'll take a look at your revisions in the next few days. Rgr09 (talk) 06:27, 5 February 2016 (UTC)
 * I have quite a few questions that I hope you would answer:
 * You write that "Coleman made sworn testimony to the Scottish court that a compromised American covert drug-operation allowed Iranian-backed terrorists – the PFLP-GC, led by Ahmed Jibril – to slip a Semtex bomb aboard the plane." What Scottish court? When? Do not cite Coleman's own book on this. This statement contradicts the newspaper article you cite in reference 3.
 * Thanks for your response. Regrettably, I'm swamped with my real-work, but I'll make a few quick-pass answers (which aren't corrections to the edits) as a matter of good faith.  I mean the Scottish Court at Camp Zeist, NL, which was held on NATO headquarters, at the request of the UK and US.  Read here:  http://www.theguardian.com/theguardian/1999/apr/17/weekend7.weekend7  I had understood that this was where he'd made the testimony that led to the perjury charge, but getting that explicitly in an article will take some work, which I can't do right now.  Please, can you bear with me?  Sure Footed1 (talk) 16:14, 5 February 2016 (UTC)
 * Here's what the Guardian said about Coleman:
 * A former DIA operative, Lester Coleman, in his 1993 book, The Trail Of The Octopus, revived the drugs-ring story. The American security apparatus jumped on Coleman with both feet, forcing him to seek asylum in Sweden, where he was accused of using a false passport, even though he'd been ordered to take on a false identity by the Drug Enforcement Agency, and ended up serving six months for perjury. Both he and Aviv are now considering bringing lawsuits against the US Government. And in Britain in 1994, a Channel 4 film, The Maltese Double Cross, was banned from the London Film Festival, while a gallery that subsequently showed it was the victim of both burglary and arson. The hounding of the British film and the calvary of Coleman, whose book is still unpublished in America, certainly seem to have the pawprints of Mossad on them. Meanwhile, a US public-television documentary that accepted the theory that the Palestinian Ahmed Gibril was responsible for the bombing remained unmolested.  What if they are innocent?, The Guardian, 17 April 1999
 * I know I've read that he was charged with perjury for his testimony 'somewhere else' than in Coleman's book. I agree that it needs another source.  I'll look for one.  But that's what happened, as I understand it.
 * I think (but I'm not-sure about this, to be honest) the perjury conviction was overturned (under seal), and he was left with the passport-fraud conviction. Then there was the 2000 fraud conviction, and (I read on PACER or somewhere else) that his two convictions (I think the two fraud convictions) were 'aggregated' and he won a tort for having served *any* time at all, i.e. it seems to have been one of those convictions like the Thomas Drake case, where the conviction was spurious but the government had to be right (etc etc etc) and the person got no prison time.
 * I think (but I'm not-sure about this, to be honest) the perjury conviction was overturned (under seal), and he was left with the passport-fraud conviction. Then there was the 2000 fraud conviction, and (I read on PACER or somewhere else) that his two convictions (I think the two fraud convictions) were 'aggregated' and he won a tort for having served *any* time at all, i.e. it seems to have been one of those convictions like the Thomas Drake case, where the conviction was spurious but the government had to be right (etc etc etc) and the person got no prison time.


 * You write that "The United States government responded by charging him with perjury." Do you mean that the American government charged Coleman with perjury for his testimony in Scotland? What is your basis for this claim?
 * I mean that *exactly*. He got charged with perjury for testifying in court.  That's apparently what happened. Sourcing it 'to satisfaction' better will take a bit of work, however.  I'm willing to backtrack on it until I have more time to dig-into it, which I kinda don't right now.  I'll edit it out and fix it later if that's what you (or the Wikipedia community) needs.  Sure Footed1 (talk) 16:26, 5 February 2016 (UTC)
 * This was admittedly from TOOO (Octopus), which I agree needs a 2nd verification, based on what-happened on this page. Here is a statement (from a book about Locherbie) that Coleman had been charged with perjury prior to TOOO being published in 1993 (Book page about this, Google books).
 * He didn't return to the US until 1996, at which point he was (again, this isn't a RS) allegedly treated very badly, and signed a confession under duress, which was (again, allegedly on sources that need more backup) repudiated on appeal. I'm willing to work on this with you.  Can you help a bit? Sure Footed1 (talk) 16:14, 5 February 2016 (UTC)
 * You state that Coleman's position as an "agent" for the Defense Intelligence Agency "is the subject of some controversy which is difficult to definitively validate given the nature of the claim." This is not accurate. Coleman made a plea allocation in September 1997 in his perjury case in which he discussed his employment with the DIA and DEA, and acknowledged that he had worked as an 'informer' and was not a DIA or DEA officer. This allocation is the subject of several news articles, some of which were cited in the article, but have now been removed. Not all of these are available through google or other free services, and were accessed by the previous editors at cost. This does not entitle you to delete them.
 * That plea-agreement (allegedly a false-confession) allegedly got overturned. To be fair, that allegation is (at present) only in one article that's only available on a listserver.  Worth hunting down.  I'm willing to work on this, because this seems to come-up a lot in the reading.  It's hard to get-clear on the facts, because LC obfuscates and distorts (to put it politely) and there's a lot of heresay out there.  I'm willing to help look-up the facts, and would appreciate a bit of backup. Sure Footed1 (talk) 16:17, 5 February 2016 (UTC)
 * You acknowledged above that the 1999 article by Marcello Mega in the Sunday Times was not accurate, and that Coleman was not "cleared" by a three judge panel which returned a "sealed verdict" on the case. Yet you have now added the section heading "1997: U.S. appeals court clears perjury conviction in sealed decision". What is your justification for this?
 * I didn't acknowledge the MMega article isn't accurate. Show me where I said that.  I did not.  I don't think it's ok to rely on a listerver-republished article, but that doesn't mean the article isn't accurate, it means it needs further verification. I think it's worth contacting Marcello Mega, frankly.  He's be able to dig this out, and I bet he'd do it in a heartbeat.Sure Footed1 (talk) 16:17, 5 February 2016 (UTC)
 * I look forward to hearing from you on these points. I also have to warn you about your editing methods in this article.
 * I don't know what to tell you. I just got bored and worked on it.  I didn't know there was a rule about too many edits, and IMUHO (in my un-humble opinion), if you felt this way about this article, it would have been helpful for someone to have place a BIG WARNING on the talk-page about "how-many edits to make" without a consensus discussion.  Sure Footed1 (talk) 16:14, 5 February 2016 (UTC)

Over 60 edits in one day make it extremely difficult to understand what you are doing, what you have changed, added or dropped. You are clearly making major changes in an article that has been heavily vandalized for years. You need to be clear about what you are doing to avoid getting everything reverted. Rgr09 (talk) 15:34, 5 February 2016 (UTC)
 * What I might-do tonight is remove these issues from the text and "sandbox" it for later, probably next month, as I am a bit busy to really fix this well. That might be the best option.  But I do want to pick this up later. Sure Footed1 (talk) 16:29, 5 February 2016 (UTC)

Perjury charge was for sworn affidavit made in Pan Am civil claim
This was my error, sorry - I'm repairing this. Coleman asked for immunity to testify at the Scottish court (held in Camp Zeist), but didn't get it. Sure Footed1 (talk) 17:16, 5 February 2016 (UTC)

Taking out the parts that need work
I am in a crisis right now. I'm just removing those points, but I want to look up the RS's on them later.

I'll take out the informer comment until I can source that "down to a fine powder", but expect me to be back on the topic, please. Thanks for taking the time to identify these points. If there are other than need to come-out until they can be super-RS'd let me know. Sure Footed1 (talk) 17:10, 5 February 2016 (UTC)


 * I removed the MEGA source until it can be revalidated, and the "sealed appeal" points until they can be validated.
 * I can't do this now. But I'll do it later, those two points.  Thanks, Sure Footed1 (talk) 17:24, 5 February 2016 (UTC)

Reception removal
I don't think that Wikipedia is a pillory, and I suggest the "Reception" section be removed. There's no parallel for this elsewhere.

The guy sustained two fraud convictions, and the page rightfully presents that. He also put forth information that the government fought bitterly to suppress - a fight openly stated in the UK, and stated in closed-quarters in the U.S. Who-else has a 'Reception' page on Wikipedia? Sure Footed1 (talk) 09:10, 4 February 2016 (UTC)
 * Lots of people, especially cranks. Guy (Help!) 16:58, 7 February 2016 (UTC)

User:JzG just deleted all my work
Who is this person? Why can he swoop in and claim I'm not using the talk page, when I'm using the talk page?
 * Every edit on Wikipedia can be reverted, that's how Wikipedia is. You made substantial changes without prior discussion here, and virtually all your edits are to this article, which suggests you are likely to be unfamiliar with the rules and norms of Wikipedia. You were also reverted by and . Guy (Help!) 16:44, 9 February 2016 (UTC)
 * I support the extremely conservative approach here, with every change discussed ahead and well-sourced, given the years-long hoaxing and BLP involved with this subject. DMacks (talk) 03:19, 12 February 2016 (UTC)