Talk:Lewis Marnell

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Lewis Marnell at Nike Skateboarding
Re. your recent note at my talk page: I'm afraid that I know almost nothing about skateboarding, so I don't know how notable Lewis Marnell is, although I see that his name is redlinked. At the Nike Skateboarding article, he appears as one of a list of 22 professional members of the team, only three of whom are bluelinked. This leads me to question his notability. That being the case, it doesn't seem appropriate to devote so much emphasis to him in the Nike article.

The tone of the subsection on Marnell also seems entirely wrong, like a violation of WP:NOTMEMORIAL. Phrasing like "passed away" and "global skateboard community was shocked by the news", the rather extraneous detail about his recent marriage, and the blockquote from Nike's tribute site all make the subsection read more like a eulogy for Marnell than an encyclopedia entry.

If Marnell played a particularly significant role on the team (as opposed to being 1/22nd of it), it'd be appropriate to include a bit about his part on the team. If his death had a serious impact beyond the emotional on Nike&mdash;for instance, if it forced the cancellation of a major promotional tour, or occurred just when a Lewis Marnell shoe was about to hit the market&mdash;then it'd be appropriate to include a well-sourced passage on that.

I'll let you consider this and edit the page accordingly, since I assume that you're far more familiar with the skateboarding world than I. I'll watch the page, and will only stick my oar in again if it looks like it still fails WP:NOTMEMORIAL, or if there's something obvious that needs fixing. Ammodramus (talk) 02:32, 23 January 2013 (UTC)
 * This sounds fair to me and I have learned something through this process. Thank you and I will get onto the editing process for not only this page, but others that I have inserted this content into. Regards, --Soulparadox (talk) 02:34, 23 January 2013 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the reply. At your talk page, I see that it looks like you and another editor are working up a Lewis Marnell article.  Hope that turns out well for you.  Ammodramus (talk) 02:42, 23 January 2013 (UTC)


 * Just looked at the new Lewis Marnell article. I'm afraid that the "Death of Lewis Marnell" section strikes me as problematic.  At any time that an athlete or other public figure dies young, there's going to be an outpouring of sentiments such as those quoted&mdash;it's a tragedy; he/she had so much to give; we're all devastated; etc., etc.  Quoting them doesn't add anything meaningful to the reader's knowledge about Marnell, just because such sentiments, however deeply and genuinely they're felt, are so common.


 * I'd suggest paring the section down to some very limited details about the date, place, and cause of his death. If some kind of permanent public memorials are created&mdash;a park, a statue, or a mural on a public building&mdash;it'd be appropriate to mention them.  However, an extensive collection of tweets and Facebook posts threatens to turn the article into a memorial website rather than a legitimate encyclopedia article.  Ammodramus (talk) 04:16, 26 January 2013 (UTC)


 * The only reason I entered that content, is to document the public response to Marnell's death. The various publications are the key media sources in the area, SbA is the govt-funded organization for skateboarding in Australia, his Almost teammates are particularly significant due to the position that the board company holds in skateboarding, and O'neill and Rodriguez are not only senior Nike team members, but they are among the top-rated skateboarders globally today. I will remove the Fast Times Skateboarding section, but given that I will be expanding the remainder of the article and the Memorial policy applies specifically to user pages, shouldn't it be okay to keep this? Also, I will review the article again for emotive language, as I have been careful to not avoid the "he/she had so much to give; we're all devastated; etc., etc." sentiment you have mentioned. After consideration, I came to the conclusion that such content would not only facilitate the reader's understanding of the impact that Marnell had in the international skateboarding community, but also provide some insight into the organisations/individuals who published the tributes. I think it would also be useful to include the discussion of the Wikipedia Skateboarding group, so I will paste this into the Talk section of the page. Thanks again for the contribution and I look forward to your reply.--Soulparadox (talk) 04:36, 26 January 2013 (UTC)


 * Howdy folks. Thought I'd chime in on the above and give some thoughts. To begin with, I've changed the heading Death of Lewis Marnell to simply Death, in line with other BLPs/bios. I don't think it's necessary to point out that it was his death in an article about him, if that makes sense. Makes it seem a little "memorial" too, which seems to be the concern expressed above.
 * More specifically about the above, I too had some concerns about substantive sections in related articles focussed on the death of one person. I think that's less of a concern in cases like Almost Skateboards where the subject's death has and will continue to have a massive impact, given his prominence in the company. Now that a biography exists, I think most of that concern can be mitigated by the inclusion of a short note in most of the related articles with a main tag directed to this article. One or two lines should then suffice in those with more substantive information in this one. As for this article, I agree that the creation of "quotefarms" doesn't help explain the impact the subject had on the industry, nor the impact his death has had/will have. So I think it could probably be pared back a little bit, but I'm conscious that we (WP) have had similar issues with many BLPs who have had notionally notable lives but very notable deaths. It's not BLP1E, but his death is probably the thing he will be most remembered for, which is really unfortunate given his impact on the industry while alive. I think, under those circumstances, a detailed section on his death and the impact of it is not inappropriate. Stalwart 111  00:25, 29 January 2013 (UTC)
 * I think this is fair and will look at paring back sections—I have selected quotes in biographical articles, as I can not think of a more fair and accurate representation of an individual than that which they have stated publicly (I have thought that this is more reasonable than the high risk of misinterpretation); however, I think that, with some concerted effort, the content can be minimized. Thanks again Stalwart.--Soulparadox (talk) 05:40, 29 January 2013 (UTC)

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