Talk:Li Zongren

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Any note on the constitutionality of Chiang retaking the presidency after he had resigned? --Jiang 09:10, 13 Aug 2003 (UTC)


 * It was legally justifiable because Li was not a successor, legally or realistically. Li was merely acting -- and didn't even possess the full power acting pres. usually has. Li was warming the seat until a real president comes.


 * How Chiang's presidency resignation letter is so plastically unofficial and can be rescinded twleve months is beyond me. I've only read Li biographies (mostly from Mainland), and those ones didn't mention the details how Chiang sneaked back into power. --Menchi 09:27, Aug 13, 2003 (UTC)

Chiang resumed his duties as president on March 1, 1950. Who was officially in charge between Nov 1949 and Mar 1950? --Jiang 04:36, 3 May 2004 (UTC)


 * I think Li was the one officially in charge, but perhaps Chiang was the one in real power. But still, when Li flew to the U.S. the president Truman still recieved him as the legal president. Chiang's return to presidency in Taiwan is weird. He returned to power in a government in exile, a position no better and no higher than the nationalist armies in Burma.Mababa 07:01, 22 Mar 2005 (UTC)

I cant make anything out of ROC or PRC leadership. Was Hu hammin supposed to be ROC/KMT leader from 1927-'31/'32 or what?! Was chiang leader from 1928-'75 or '31-'75? it hints at him rising to power in '28 but then it just goes to some weird quote.it implies he had supreme power yet choose not to exercise it. was the guy who was pres. from '88-2000 supreme ruler or was the party leader? How long was li acting leader? who was ROC leader from 1915-'18? -Vital Component 7:53 am EST.


 * see list of leaders of the Republic of China. From 1915-1928, China was fragmented into numerous fiefdoms ruled by warlords (see Warlord era (China). The internationally recognized government during this period was run by warlords in Beijing. Sun Yat-sen set up a rival government Guangzhou, which controlled mainly Guangdong province, in 1917/1921/1923 (he was expelled twice). Hu Hanmin initially succeeded Sun Yat-sen upon the latter's death in 1925, but the Military Government he headed was reorganized into the Nationalist Government under Sun's comrade-in-arms Wang Jingwei. It was during the Northern Expedition that Chiang Kai-shek, head of the army, consolidated his power and declared a government in Nanjing (with himself as head) that overwhelmed the Wang Jingwei government that had settled itself in Wuhan. so by 1928, Chiang emerged as the most powerful person in China, and it would remain so until 1949 when he fled to Taiwan.


 * Lee Teng-hui was both Chairman of the KMT and President of the ROC from 1988 to 2000. He was not "supreme leader" of Taiwan: the system had democratized under his predecessor Chiang Ching-kuo and even more so under Lee himself.--Jiang 08:51, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

I dont buy that Ji. Ive dealt with alot of the communist countries and i see simularitites in leadership structure between General Secretaries of Workers' Parties leading and KMT leadership.

Sung Chiao-jen (1912-1913) Sun Yat-sen (1913-1915, 1918-1925) COUP 1915-1918 Hu Hanmin (1925-1931) Chiang Kai-shek (1931-1975)

for Kai I was going to split that into 1931-48, 1950-75 I understand that he had complete power by '28 but not complete authority. thats why he wasnt the ruler from 1928-1975. I'm not even sure if he has power as early as 1931 with Imperial Japan in play. I have a main line then im willing to place signifigint warlords in that.

Important also is this is my list of paramount leaders from 1928-'48. And when i asked about Lee I meant was he the leader as president or was he simply appointing the true leader, the PM like say the Slovene President does? Which is the executive position? The PRC is also annoying in this aspect. I'm going to try orginizing their leaders, Mongolia's, and the U.S.S.R.'s soon. - VC

Also Yen Chia-kan became Pres. in 1975 until 1978. Was he the true leader or chiang? And the article on Taiwan's VPs is stating Li lost authority in december 1949? Which is it? - VC 4:46 am EST 3-17-06


 * The Chinese government under the KMT from 1925-1948 was very much a party state inspired by the Soviet Union. Its basic structure was put together by Soviet advisors when the Nationalists were still in Guangzhou.


 * I'm not sure what article you are referring to, or that you are planning to create an article, but the concept of "paramount leader" has nothing to do with constitutional authority and everything to do with power. Deng Xiaoping never rose beyond the vice premiership and never became head of the CCP, but he was recognized by everyone to be the person in charge - the paramount leader in China. Chiang Kai-shek, not Hu Hanmin, was clearly in charge starting in 1928. Though Hu was ranked higher in the party, Chiang headed the Central Military Commission and the National Government.


 * From 1937-1945, large parts of eastern China were occupied by the Japanese, so we ended up with four competing authorities: Chiang Kai-shek in Chongqing (the internationally recognized government), Mao Zedong in Yan'an (recognized by no one and nominally under the Chiang Kai-shek government in the Second United Front), Wang Kemin in Beijing (Japanese puppet) and Wang Jingwei in Nanjing (Japanese puppet).


 * Lee Teng-hui was clearly an executive president. Under his leadership, he pushed through constitutional amendments to strengthen the presidency after a minor power struggle with Yu Kuo-hwa, Lee Huan, and Hau Pei-tsun in the early part of his presidency. Yen Chia-kan was largely a figurehead president, with power delegated to Premier Chiang Ching-kuo.


 * The first few months of 1949 is a more tricky situation. Chiang resigned without making it clear whether his resignation was permanent: he remained head of the party and military and continued to give orders as if he were in control, at times sideling Li Zongren.--Jiang 11:49, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

My point is to make a list compiling the supreme leaders of the ROC. I thought Yen was a figurehead. aND I have got sources saying he resigned in '48 not '49. How much power did Li have?? I dont count japanese occupation zones because the leaders there were leaders of "puppet" states not the ROC. Im drawingt out a list of Supreme ROC Rulers 5:42 pm

"To this day, some Nationalists supporters view him as a traitor to the democratic cause."
democracy in 1965? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.14.173.51 (talk) 11:08, 5 September 2012 (UTC)

Li Zongren
http://books.google.com/books?id=MOT_axUIWooC&pg=PA199&dq=li+tsung+jen+national+socialism&hl=en&sa=X&ei=pOOlUMbnI4Tl0QGazYCADw&ved=0CC8Q6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=li%20tsung%20jen%20national%20socialism&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=lzisAAAAIAAJ&pg=PA112&dq=li+tsung+jen+national+socialism&hl=en&sa=X&ei=pOOlUMbnI4Tl0QGazYCADw&ved=0CEEQ6AEwBg#v=onepage&q=li%20tsung%20jen%20national%20socialism&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=h5_tSnygvbIC&pg=PA1876&dq=li+tsung+jen+national+socialism&hl=en&sa=X&ei=pOOlUMbnI4Tl0QGazYCADw&ved=0CDsQ6AEwBA#v=onepage&q=li%20tsung%20jen%20national%20socialism&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=Kl3IpJfVarcC&pg=PA322&dq=li+tsung+jen+national+socialism&hl=en&sa=X&ei=pOOlUMbnI4Tl0QGazYCADw&ved=0CDgQ6AEwAw#v=onepage&q=li%20tsung%20jen%20national%20socialism&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=Le-sxf8U5p0C&pg=PA857&dq=li+tsung+jen+national+socialism&hl=en&sa=X&ei=pOOlUMbnI4Tl0QGazYCADw&ved=0CEcQ6AEwCA#v=onepage&q=li%20tsung%20jen%20national%20socialism&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=Y36aAAAAIAAJ&pg=PA524&dq=li+tsung+jen+national+socialism&hl=en&sa=X&ei=pOOlUMbnI4Tl0QGazYCADw&ved=0CEoQ6AEwCQ#v=onepage&q=li%20tsung%20jen%20national%20socialism&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=ONWxWuI3udgC&pg=PA603&dq=li+tsung+jen+national+socialism&hl=en&sa=X&ei=pOOlUMbnI4Tl0QGazYCADw&ved=0CD4Q6AEwBQ#v=onepage&q=li%20tsung%20jen%20national%20socialism&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=dQmst3Ima2AC&q=li+tsung+jen+national+socialism&dq=li+tsung+jen+national+socialism&hl=en&sa=X&ei=a-alUIaAAqm70QH_1IH4Cg&ved=0CEEQ6AEwBTgK

http://books.google.com/books?id=lg4WAQAAMAAJ&q=li+tsung+jen+national+socialism&dq=li+tsung+jen+national+socialism&hl=en&sa=X&ei=a-alUIaAAqm70QH_1IH4Cg&ved=0CEcQ6AEwBzgK

http://books.google.com/books?id=O19wAAAAMAAJ&q=li+tsung+jen+national+socialism&dq=li+tsung+jen+national+socialism&hl=en&sa=X&ei=a-alUIaAAqm70QH_1IH4Cg&ved=0CD4Q6AEwBDgK

National socialism

Page 517

http://books.google.com/books?ei=pOOlUMbnI4Tl0QGazYCADw&id=1vwZAAAAYAAJ&dq=li+tsung+jen+national+socialism&q=++socialism+resembles#search_anchor

http://books.google.com/books?ei=pOOlUMbnI4Tl0QGazYCADw&id=1vwZAAAAYAAJ&dq=li+tsung+jen+national+socialism&q=Kwangsi++socialism#search_anchor

Title	Current Biography Yearbook, Volume 3 Contributor	H.W. Wilson Company Publisher	H. W. Wilson Co., 1942 Original from	the University of Virginia Digitized	May 1, 2008

http://books.google.com/books?id=bLSDTRdhgKMC&q=li+tsung+jen+national+socialism&dq=li+tsung+jen+national+socialism&hl=en&sa=X&ei=pOOlUMbnI4Tl0QGazYCADw&ved=0CDUQ6AEwAg

Title	Current Biography: Who's News and Why, 1942 Authors	Maxine Block, E. Mary Trow Edition	reprint Publisher	Hw Wilson Company, 1942 ISBN 0824204794, 9780824204792 Length	940 pages

In November 1935 Li Tsung-jen and Pai Tsung-hsi did not even attend the Fifth National Kuomintang Congress, and at the ... Li Tsung-jen used to call the system of government introduced in Kwangsi "national socialism," although it resembles ...

Page 23

http://books.google.com/books?id=XG1xAAAAMAAJ&q=li+tsung+jen+national+socialism&dq=li+tsung+jen+national+socialism&hl=en&sa=X&ei=pOOlUMbnI4Tl0QGazYCADw&ved=0CEQQ6AEwBw

http://books.google.com/books?ei=pOOlUMbnI4Tl0QGazYCADw&id=XG1xAAAAMAAJ&dq=li+tsung+jen+national+socialism&q=national+socialism+quite#search_anchor

Li Tsung-jen calls the politico-economic set-up "national- socialism" — though it is quite different from the Nazi brand. Under this benevolent administration Kwangsi became known to foreigners as the "model" province. A well trained and ...

Title	The Chinese army: its organization and military efficiency, by Evans Fordyce Carlson ... I.P.R. inquiry series Inquiry series, Institute of Pacific Relations Authors	Evans Fordyce Carlson, Yuquan Wang Publisher	International secretariat, Institute of Pacific relations, 1940 Original from	the University of Michigan Digitized	Sep 10, 2008 Length	137 pages

Page 208

http://books.google.com/books?ei=a-alUIaAAqm70QH_1IH4Cg&id=MLQTAAAAIAAJ&dq=li+tsung+jen+national+socialism&q=li+tsung+jen+national+socialists#search_anchor

National Socialists of Kwangsi Provii led by two of China's topnotch n men : Generals Li Tsung-jen an Chung-hsi. These men are intense tionalistic, and have the interests ( people at heart. General U has siit since the Communists gave up thi ...

Title	The China Monthly Review, Volumes 88-89 Publisher	J.W. Powell, 1939

Page 208

http://books.google.com/books?ei=a-alUIaAAqm70QH_1IH4Cg&id=7ylQl35VwhkC&dq=li+tsung+jen+national+socialism&q=li+tsung+jen+national+socialists#search_anchor

The National Socialists of Kwangsi Province are led by two of China's topnotch military men : Generals Li Tsung-jen and Pai Chung-hsi. These men are intensely nationalistic, and have the interests of the people at heart. General Li has said ...

Title	China Monthly Review, Volume 88 Publisher	Millard Publishing Company, Incorporated, 1939 Original from	the University of Michigan Digitized	Jul 30, 2009

Page 459

http://books.google.com/books?ei=u-OlUOyeLMu_0QH9y4DQCA&id=7gUWAQAAMAAJ&dq=Pai+chung+hsi+national+socialism&q=Pai+chung+hsi+national+socialists#search_anchor

The facts show that the Communists and the National Socialists (led by Li Tsung- jen and Pai Chung-hsi) have been among his most loyal supporters, and have made monumental contributions to the successful Chinese resistance. It is the ...

Title	Amerasia, Volume 3 Editor	Philip J. Jaffe Publisher	Amerasia, Incorporated, 1940 Original from	Indiana University Digitized	Dec 2, 2010

Page 138

http://books.google.com/books?ei=3umlUKSQC5S60AHi_YHgDA&id=fB3pAAAAIAAJ&dq=Pai+chung+hsi+national+socialism&q=Pai+chung+hsi+national+socialist#search_anchor

And when the special train drew alongside it contained not only General Li but General Pai Chung- hsi, Deputy Chief of ... their administration in Kwangsi was called a rightist government, and in others it was termed national socialist ( though ...

Title	Twin stars of China: a behind-the-scenes story of China's valiant struggle for existence, by a U.S. Marine who lived & moved with the people Author	Evans Fordyce Carlson Publisher	Dodd, Mead & Company, 1940 Length	331 pages

Rajmaan (talk) 07:25, 16 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks for these links. I'll look them over and update Li's bio the next time that I have more time!Ferox Seneca (talk) 11:22, 16 November 2012 (UTC)

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