Talk:Liberace/Archive 1

Pop culture reference in A Prayer for Owen Meany
Has anyone read the novel A prayer for owen meany? There's a fairly long reference about Liberace in the book. I thought I'd bring it up, but I don't know exactly what I should say in the mentioning. love, 99.236.170.52 (talk) 23:35, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

Please begin new discussions at the bottom of the page
I grew up in Phila PA. Every year, they had an 'Easter Day Parade' in center city. Each year there was a celebrity 'grandmaster' of the parade. The grandmaster would sit in the back of a convertible limosine and wave at the crowds. And the grandmaster was responsible for one more thing. Selecting the 'best dressed' person in the crowd. Actually, there were many 'best dressed' catagories...best dressed man, woman, child, etc....   In 1963, my parents took me (I was 7) and my 2 year old brother to the parade. And guess what? My brother and I were selected as 'best dressed boys' in Philadelphia. We even got to ride in the back of the convertible limosine! The next day, there was a picture in the local newspaper (the Bulletin) showing me and my little brother...both seated on the lap of the grandmaster, in the back of the limo! And to this day, I have a yellowing, newprint photo...of me, and my little brother, sitting on Liberace's lap!

Amazing, and congrats, howis this relevant to the article? will you be scanning the picture in?Killemall22 (talk) 15:56, 3 June 2009 (UTC)

Cleanup and expansion
I have vastly expanded and cleaned up this article. Wyss 3 July 2005 14:51 (UTC)

I have corrected the erroneous date regarding Paderewski and 1950. Jan Ignace Paderewski died in 1941. The story goes that Paderewski casually knew Liberace's mother and as a result of a visit to them, the one name concept was created.Dr.Dan

Liberace also appeared in an episode of the original Star Trek series "The Squire of Gothos".

No, that was william Campbell, who also played Captain Koloth in "The Trouble with Tribbles". However, the character does seem to be Liberace inspired. --67.175.8.60 20:07, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

Pronunciation
Should there be a note about how to pronounce his name? It seems obvious to anyone who's ever heard it (most of us, by far) but to those who haven't, it looks like it should be "libber-Ace". I'm not sure exactly what the correct use of the phoentic alphabet (or whatever) is, so I don't want to add "pronounced 'Libber-AH-chee'", but if someone could add the standard format it might be beneficial. Just a thought. -R. fiend 03:12, 20 December 2005 (UTC)

I thougt that the name shoud be pronounced differently until I heard a song called "Mr.Sandman" ("and lots of wavy hair like Liberace")

I've added a phonetic spelling according to the IPA guidelines, I think it's a good idea, if you can read the phonetic alphabet ofcourse!

I'm not sure if you saved the change you made because the pronunciation at the start of the article still looks super weird to me. Who could ever even begin to pronounce whatever those characters are!! Maybe my computer is making them look look that????Joschus 16:12, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
 * I've added both an IPA version as well as a common version. This should help.  -- Snicker undefined°€ 16:15, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

Wasn't he gay?
i always thought that his sexuality was well established. Joeyramoney 16:38, 26 July 2006 (UTC)


 * Of course he was gay. DUH. Your GAYDAR not working today? Despite what the cowards in this thread say: it is important to state the obvious. Because OTHERWISE you are GUILTY of imputing the WRONG IMPRESSION. Something the extraordinarily cowardly Wikipedia does all the time. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.227.114.140 (talk) 23:04, 25 January 2009 (UTC)


 * You are correct Joeyramoney. This article is overstating the case that he never admited his sexuality. In his 60 Minutes interview he quite clearly stated that he had to sue over his alleged homosexuality in the 1950's or his career would have been over, but, by the time of this interview, the public was more accepting. His A&E biography also confirms it. Oh well no use getting in an edit war over someting so obvious. MarnetteD | Talk 20:59, 6 October 2006 (UTC)


 * It was an open secret. Everyone in his social circle knew but didn't talk about it much and meanwhile he denied it in public until the day he died. Incredibly, many of his middle-aged and older (female) fans in the American heartland, even during the 1980s, thought he was straight and admired him for the love he expressed for his mother.


 * Its important to maintain a NPOV though, just because we "know" something to be true, we cant put it here unless we can prove it to be true through references to sources that can not be disputed. I do feel that a section about the questioning of his sexuality would be a more than NPOV thing to have since pretending that no one questions his sexuality would not be NPOV at all. ""(i forget how to sign things)


 * Bollocks. All that means is the next generation are going to have to go truth-hunting just like we did. But it sounds like you just don't care. It sounds like you'd rather not do anything wrong rather than trying to do something RIGHT. Your type makes me cringe.


 * Yes, he was gay. Everybody seems to be tip-toeing around it, though, like its 1964 or something. This is going to end. --98.232.180.37 (talk) 05:33, 14 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Unless and until someone can provide a verfiable third party source with citation that Liberace stated he was gay, anything that states he was is speculation. While he obviously WAS, obvious and confirmed are two very different things, and Wikipedia doesn't operate on what might be, but what is. If anyone can provide a source for that 60 Minutes interview, a transcript perhaps, that would be great. Nezu Chiza (talk) 11:14, 25 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Coward. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.227.114.140 (talk) 23:06, 25 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Hmm? While Liberace may have been a coward in how he dealt with his probable homosexuality, this isn't a discussion forum. Also, please use four ~ to sign your comments. I'm sure you didn't intend a comment stating "Coward" to be anonymous, that would be hypocrisy. Nezu Chiza (talk) 19:26, 26 January 2009 (UTC)
 * What would constitute a reliable source that he was gay? Pyron's biography is fantastic. I can't find a single source that asserts that Liberace had meaningful sexual relations with the opposite sex, in fact every source I know suggests the opposite is true. Gareth E Kegg (talk) 16:35, 5 July 2010 (UTC)

"Suggests" is just not good enough for a biography, whatever we may think. Sources are still required. Rodhull andemu  16:45, 5 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Doesn't the positive critical reception of Darden's biography give lie to Liberace's denials? I don't feel that Darden's book falls foul of OR. It passes every case. What evidence do we have that Liberace was hetrosexual? Gareth E Kegg (talk) 22:03, 5 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Positive critical reception of a book does not imply acceptance of the truth of any allegations made in it. The contents of the book stand on their own merits and the reputation of the author. Your last sentence is just nonsense; lack of evidence of heterosexuality is not evidence for homosexuality, and please see WP:BURDEN. If you think Darden's book is a reliable sourece, please seek comments at the reliable sources noticeboard. Rodhull  andemu  22:23, 5 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Good call :) I'll do that. You're a great editor. Gareth E Kegg (talk) 22:33, 5 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Rock Hudson never came out, yet he is listed on Wikipedia as being gay. Why isn't the same standard held for Liberace? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.72.27.204 (talk) 18:47, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

Vince Cardell
Vince Cardell redirects to this article. It was redirected because that article consited of one sentence, but the merge wasn't completed. I don't see exactly where this info would fit into the article, but if someone wants to add it, the full text was "Vince Cardell was a former protige of Liberace, and possibly love companion, due to his high exemplory of public flirting with Vince." It should have a source, which the redirected stub sadly didn't provide. I don't know enough about either man to know whether the merge should be completed or the redirect should be deleted as useless, but hopefully someone else will. --Icarus (Hi!) 03:40, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

Competence as pianist
I would like some info on how competent he was as a pianist. I have heard he was very good, lousy and everything in between. 68.9.173.186 15:50, 31 August 2006 (UTC)Tommy


 * His competence and talents were more as an entertainer than as a pianist (which the article's first paragraph reflects). Without all the associated showmanship, considerable personal charisma, audience rapport, comedic flair and flashy costumes, his moderately talented piano playing might be best described as "fast and sloppy." His record sales plummeted after his TV show was cancelled and by the late 1960s (I believe) he had no recording contract and his records were being sold now and then by direct advertising on late night TV. He later thrived in Las Vegas because of his many gifts as a reliable showman and entertainer, not as a pianist.

Yes, I agree with the above (anonymous) reply, however one must also remember that Liberace was very good at certain styles of playing and in some cases better than anyone else. For example, he played octave trills and ornaments superbly, and his arpeggios were the best in the business. In addition, he also wrote most of his own piano arrangements, which is a talent and an art in itself. The orchestrations were usually done by someone else (George Liberace at first, then Gordon Robertson and later Bo Ayars). If one listens to the earlier recordings, in particular the 78 rpm discs of Chopin and Liszt and the recordings from the 1950's of the Cornish Rhapsody and Dream of Olwen, you can hear a high degree of talent in his playing. One other album which really shows off his talent as a pianist is Piano Song Book of Movie Themes, recorded late 1950's. He became lazier as time moved on and opted for easier arrangements of pop tunes to please his Las Vegas audiences. Money, money, money! In my opinion, he was never in the league of the "greats" in the classical repertoire, but then again, they couldn't do what he did either. I will draft something that reflects these ideas and include in the article at some stage soon - just need to be careful that it is not "an opinion" as opposed to fact, which is a bit of a grey area in cases like this. Musicmaker 13:00, 7 October 2006 (UTC)


 * The following is original research and not suitable for citation in the article so I'm putting it here only as a discussion point. I met him several times, was photographed with him, heard him play, heard lots of his recordings. He was intelligent, very professional, a highly talented comedian and skilled entertainer dripping with personal charm, charisma and genuine social ability. As a piano player he was moderately talented and sloppy with an ear for melody and a keen sense for working any audience. Lee had loads of talent, clearly knew his strengths and weaknesses, made a big impact on American popular culture and influenced many pop artists, including Elvis Presley. Although he began his career as a pianist, his talents didn't lead him into many concert halls or appearances with the CSO or BP, but early on into nightclubs, then television and finally Las Vegas. He isn't remembered as a pianist but as an entertainer and early mass media celebrity.


 * Did he go to the Juilliard school, as some people claim?

First name
Are you sure that his first name was actually Władziu and not Władysław? [Władziu is a common short for polish name Władysław]. —Preceding unsigned comment added by zahn (talk • contribs)

I was just going to say something about this when I saw this post. As the user above me had mentioned, in Polish language there is no official name "Władziu". It is one of the short forms, the other being Władek, of Władysław. Perhaps that's how his parents called him when he was a child and it just got stuck to him? Norum (talk) 00:09, 31 March 2009 (UTC)

Notable instruments now in other hands
I am currently doing a rewrite on the Deborah Gibson article, and understand that Gibson now owns one of Liberace's many mirrored Baldwins. Is there any information on model and serial number, concerts where used, &c. for the particular piano now at Gibson's Hollywood, California-area residence? Be sure to include reference data so that I can inline it for the Infobox on the aforementioned rewrite. - B.C.Schmerker 02:55, 8 July 2007 (UTC)

Hi! There are many kinds of Baldwins that Liberace had specially made for him (or were given to him by Baldwin). Firstly, there are two "mirror tiled" Baldwin SD10 concert grands. One is at the Liberace Museum in Las Vegas and the other is located at the Dorchester Hotel in London, UK. Two more Baldwin SD10 grands were encrusted with Austrian Rhinestones and one was located at the Gibson Showcase in Nashville for many years up until about 2003, but has now apparently been moved somewhere else - this could be the one you have discovered at Gibson Hollywood. Many people confuse the mirror tiled Baldwins with the Austrian Rhinestone Baldwins, but they are all separate instruments: therefore four in total. There is also another very special SD10 concert grand that Baldwin made and gave to Liberace in 1969 as a present for being their endorsee - black ebony case with massive chromium front legs and a chromium pole for the back leg. Furthermore, there are normal black standard factory SD10's that he used as well for some concerts - not sure if he actually owned those ones though. Musicmaker 15:08, 19 October 2007 (UTC)

Fastest pianist?
I've heard that Liberace is the fastest pianist in the world, (notes/second). If it's true, I think it's worth mentioning in this article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 219.77.173.210 (talk) 07:16, 31 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Here's a page that says Ripley's named him fastest pianist in 1953 for playing 6,000 notes in 2 minutes. I don't have any idea if there really was nobody faster at the time and I don't know if or when Liberace was dethroned by a faster guy. Binksternet (talk) 17:58, 1 December 2008 (UTC)

Uh, that's 50 notes per second. 71.174.144.189 (talk) 01:29, 10 February 2010 (UTC)


 * They didn't say it was true, they just said "Believe it or not!"

Gay
Since Liberace didn't indentify himself as gay or LGBT, in fact he went to great lengths to refute allegations that he was homoseuxal, why is the article in Category:Gay musicians and Category:LGBT people from the United States? --RucasHost (talk) 00:20, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

You're KIDDING right?!!! Another Wikiphile who wants to "suspend belief" over the obvious!06 March 2008 La-Tonia Denise Willis

I agree, La-Tonia. Just because he "didn't identify himself as (read: he LIED about whether he was) gay" does NOT mean that he was not one. Even the article itself correctly refers to Scott Thorson as "his boyfriend," which he was. Facts are facts; whether or not Liberace chose to address those facts in public is not our problem! NPOV has nothing to do with this. Liberace was gay. Period. End of story. Oh, and he was a public liar to boot.BobCubTAC (talk) 09:36, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

He's not gay. I don't see him listed under "Gay Musicians" or LGBT Musicians from the US.--68.79.94.175 (talk) 02:22, 13 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Thats because he hasn't been added yet. I'm going to add him. Lets stick a fork in this thing and be done with it. --98.232.180.37 (talk) 05:36, 14 January 2009 (UTC)

LGBT category definition for dead people is 'sexual orientation is known and not debated by historians'. It is not seriously debated that he was homosexual. That he denied it is of no relevance to categorizing dead people. Therefore he should go in the categories Gay musicians and LGBT musicians from the United States. Nietzsche 2 (talk) 01:43, 14 April 2009 (UTC)


 * What about gay historians?


 * I disagree. If historians do not debate this issue, it might be because it is uninteresting. There is no reason to treat dead people badly by slandering them just because they cannot sue Wikipedia (which sadly is what all this BLP stuff is all about). He denied that he was homosexual and no evidence to the contrary exists. Hence, he stays out.
 * PS. And even if he were sexually inclined to men, he certainly was not "gay" in that sense, not to speak of L,B and T. Str1977 (talk) 18:09, 5 January 2010 (UTC)


 * Heh, heh. You said "out".


 * Liberace's own resistance to public admittance is not what this article is about. It is about reliable, verifiable sources saying he is this or that. We compare and contrast the sources—we do not decide what the man was. Binksternet (talk) 07:20, 6 January 2010 (UTC)
 * I agree. We report who said what and when. The current section does that. However, adding him in such a category when his sexual orientation is contentious would be "deciding what the man was". Str1977 (talk) 20:54, 6 January 2010 (UTC)

For the record, it is not true that a person always has to have publicly acknowledged their homosexuality during their lifetime to warrant categorization as gay; while that is necessary for people who are still living, because of WP:BLP concerns, once they're dead a consensus of reliable sources, such as biographies, indicating that the person was gay is sufficient regardless of what the person did or didn't claim while alive. This is especially true for a person who lived and died during a time when an LGBT public figure would not have been reasonably expected to actually come out — in his era, anti-LGBT discrimination was sufficiently prevalent and sufficiently serious that almost everybody denied it and was only officially outed after their deaths, so a record of denying it means nothing if the post-death sources reveal otherwise.

The case for Liberace, in fact, is that there is a well-established and entirely valid consensus of reliable sources for his sexual orientation having been gay — enough so, in fact, that the burden of proof is now on the other side to make an airtight case that he wasn't gay if they want the categorization removed. Bearcat (talk) 02:03, 31 March 2013 (UTC)

Andy Kaid
I don't really know very much about Liberace; is the recent edit linking him with Andy Kaid but lacking a source legitimate, or is it just some high-schooler adding in his mate's name? -FisherQueen (talk · contribs) 19:32, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

More pictures!
He was such a showman - surely there's more pictures showing him in all his glory? Fainites barley 22:12, 6 May 2008 (UTC)


 * "In all his glory" usually means "naked." Just what are you after here, dear?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.171.176.1 (talk) 21:03, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

i concur, is it really that hard to find more fair use pics?Killemall22 (talk) 16:07, 3 June 2009 (UTC)

Wig?
I just watch a clip of Liberace with Jack Benny and it seemed that Liberace was wearing a pretty obvious hairpiece. Is this a documented fact, or did he have "odd" hair? Apepper (talk) 18:44, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

A Couple of things
1) In Death, it mentions, the "recently aired" Oprah Winfrey. I don't know this, but surely a date would be better. 2) Also, in popular culture, there is quite a famous reference in Futurama (references to the "Treasure of Liberace's Tomb" exhibition). Probably interesting as says more about how he is perceived than about who he is, but I dunno if others agree about this.Hrcolyer (talk) 17:36, 1 December 2008 (UTC)


 * I fixed the Oprah bit. I won't put the Futurama cite in because I don't know anything about it and I'm not intrigued enough to look it up. Binksternet (talk) 17:58, 1 December 2008 (UTC)

Lots of subjectivity here
The author(s) of this article clearly respect Liberace and think he was a highly talented individual. That's fine, but this is not the place for subjective praise. Phrases like "his considerable talents" and "showed off his acting talents" aren't exactly objective. Minaker (talk) 11:14, 30 December 2008 (UTC)


 * I agree with you, and welcome you to dig in and correct some of the prose. I reverted your neutrality tag as there is no ongoing edit war between disagreeing editors... the problems with this article are immediately addressable and have more to do with tone and style. Binksternet (talk) 17:42, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

The neutrality template addresses whether there is a dispute and does not necessarily refer to an edit war. This is not interpretation, its purpose is explicitly stated. I dispute the neutrality of the article -- and even you admit my reasons are valid. The purpose of the templates are to let would-be Wikipedia editors know that an article needs help, which this does. While I do intend to work on the article when I have the time, that doesn't mean that it doesn't need work in the meantime. The neutrality template is entirely appropriate. Minaker (talk) 22:03, 31 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Fantastic work on the article. Many thanks. Binksternet (talk) 00:06, 1 January 2009 (UTC)

An excellent and extremely well-written biography! 81.157.218.94 (talk) 15:20, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

Later life section?
I changed the "later life" section to "After the TV show, then saw the next section was titled "Television". These were in the wrong order. From square one most of the center section of the article has facts in the wrong/illogical order. --98.232.180.37 (talk) 06:32, 30 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Thanks for fixing that. Binksternet (talk) 16:04, 30 January 2009 (UTC)

Devout Catholic ?
Is this known from any available source ? That he was a Catholic and once meet pope Pius XII it´s a fact, but to call him a "devout" Catholic implies more then that. Also probably the fact that he never came out as to do with his religion.213.13.240.184 (talk) 17:22, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

Musical Style?
Most musician pages have their musical style in the template at the top, but this page lacks that. --Daniel Draco (talk) 23:13, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

Elton John and "gay" quote
I changed the statement that Elton John had called Liberace gay, using the exact words of the Pyron biography instead. 

This means that it is Pyron rather that Elton John who is our source for Liberace being gay. --Uncle Ed (talk) 23:46, 5 March 2010 (UTC)

The funny thing is, that anyone on this planet would actually need someone to TELL them that Liberace was gay. I mean, is the sky still blue? Oh well, such is irony. . .67.100.45.185 (talk) 06:30, 28 March 2010 (UTC) La-Tonia Denise Willis

Throwing this out into the universe...what was the address of the house Liberace grew up in?
I live in West Allis and I feel like I have a very stong connection to him...If anyone could help me out that would be great :) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.207.58.131 (talk) 13:40, 10 April 2010 (UTC)


 * Perhaps you will get closer if you find the 1920 census report listing for the Liberace family dwelling. Binksternet (talk) 15:25, 10 April 2010 (UTC)

Will do thank you so much...I have a feeling that he may have lived in my house. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.207.58.131 (talk) 10:48, 11 April 2010 (UTC)

Where can I find that? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.207.58.131 (talk) 10:50, 11 April 2010 (UTC)

The article just crashes to a close, without anything about his later life and death. Very odd. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.229.60.94 (talk) 22:15, 18 September 2010 (UTC)

"Mr. Sandman," a significant data point?
I believe that someone removed my recent insertion. That might be justified. In case it's not justified here's the addition that was removed, for readers of this "discussion" page to consider: 'His iconic status was immortalized in the last verse of The Chordettes' 1954 chart-topping pop song Mr. Sandman. The "dream" man was to have "...lots of wavy hair like Liberace."' I believe that this data point makes the impact that Liberace had more vivid for those who don't know of him. And for those who do, it reminds them what an icon he really was. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Grygiu (talk • contribs) 09:18, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Keep it in the article. It would be in a "In popular culture" type section. --RThompson82 (talk) 04:50, 24 August 2012 (UTC)

There have been several other artists who positively mention him in their lyrics, e.g. Nina Simone's version of My baby just cares for me as an early example or 2Pac in California Love as a recent one. I feel that the article lacks information on his reception in popular culture, as above mentioned. --Hodsha (talk) 14:52, 7 September 2013 (UTC)

Gay Confusion
Whether Liberace was gay or not is a matter of indifference to me; however, reading through the article and the discussion I find myself confused not only on the point of his sexuality, but also about the alleged standards that the Wiki community is trying to maintain. I submit that the latter point should be of more concern to the community than the former.

Section #5 of this discussion ("Wasn't he gay?") strongly argues that the article's rather awkward and excessive dancing around the issue is necessary because a) Liberace consistently denied that he was homosexual, and  b) no suitable (arguable) third-party source has indicated that he was homosexual.

Yet Section #11 ("Gay") asserts that the Liberace article is of interest to the Wiki LGBT project.

This is a blatant contradiction. If it is maintained (as in section 5) that there is insufficient definitive information available to at least strongly suggest that Liberace was gay, then how can the article be of any possible interest to the LGBT project (section 11)? Conversely, if the article -is- of interest to the LGBT project, does that not imply that sufficient information is available to make a convincing case for Liberace's homosexuality? And if so, should that not be reflected in the article?

If Liberace had lived his life in isolation, showing little interest in personal companionship of any kind, he may have been one of those rare people who had little interest in sex /per se/, and it might be appropriate to classify him, like Edward Gorey, as "asexual". Unlike Gorey, however, Liberace was very much a social creature, he -did- live with companions, and one of those companions took him to court in a -palimony- suit, and was paid-off with a significant sum.

A frivolous gold-digging lawsuit? Sure, it's possible. And it's also possible that Michael Jackson really wasn't a pedophile, and that OJ Simpson is really going to find the "real murderer," someday.

Possible, but not very likely.

So, bottom line, either the article needs to be considerably less circumspect about Liberace's sexuality, or else there really isn't any good reason for it to be a part of the LGBT project.

Unless, of course, consistency across articles for a topic isn't of any serious concern to Wiki-ites. In which case the usefulness of Wikipedia will have just dropped another couple of notches.

My $0.02. Carry on, ladies & gents, carry on. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.206.161.97 (talk) 11:36, 27 March 2011 (UTC)

Born on a piano top in Tennessee
When I was a child in the 1950's, all the kids in the neighborhood loved to sing: “Born on a piano top in Tennessee, The greenest piano that you ever did see. They taught him a note, When he was only three, And that's why they call him .... Liberace .... Davy, Davy Crockett, born on the wild frontier.” D.Crockett of course was played by F.Parker, as was D.Boone a decade later. [Special:Contributions/68.39.61.32|68.39.61.32]] (talk) 21:29, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

Antismoker propaganda ?
Qquote from the article: "He had been in ill health since 1985 with emphysema from his daily smoking off-stage".

I checked the refferences provided, there is no mention about anything like that. I question the seriousness of the authors of the article. The article looks rather a propagandistic material than a credible information.

Many people smoke and they don't develop emphysema. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Srelu (talk • contribs) 07:06, 23 July 2011 (UTC)
 * On the other hand, my grandfather smoked and died of emphysema. The Emphysema article, which is even helpfully linked in the article, states "The majority of all emphysema cases are caused by smoking tobacco" - do you dispute this assertion? Many people who get shot don't die of it; does this mean that someone else's death can have had nothing to do with their having been shot?
 * The reference in the paragraph in question looks to me to be specific only to the material after the semi-colon (about his having been HIV-positive, etc), not to that before, about his smoking-related emphysema. I agree it's a pity that the editor who added that information didn't clearly indicate its source, but it's unlikely that they invented it. In any case, it's hardly disreputable, so what makes it "propagandistic"? {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 90.197.66.227 (talk) 02:29, 21 September 2011 (UTC)


 * That's been in the article for a very long time. He did smoke and I believe he did have emphysema. The content seems verifiable but a source would be helpful. It reads as only slightly "propagandistic" to me, not a big deal. Gwen Gale (talk) 02:59, 21 September 2011 (UTC)

In Liberace: Behind the Music Liberace is depicted as a smoker from an early age through the entire film. The technical advisor was his long-time friend and agent Seymour Heller, so there must be some truth to it. trezjr (talk) 10:04, 21 September 2011 (UTC)

WWII days
Is there a reason Liberace was not drafted into the army during the Second World War? Musicwriter (talk) 03:57, 14 October 2011 (UTC)


 * A childhood leg injury made him fail the physical. Binksternet (talk) 15:48, 6 December 2012 (UTC)

Connor vs Liberace
I well remember this case and living in London at the time. The British tacitly both believed and accepted that Liberace was a homosexual. The jokes at the time all seem to have had Liberace as the the butt and the sympathy lay with Connor who it was hoped would win the case. The whole matter certainly seems to have done wonders for the circulation of the "Daily Mirror". — Preceding unsigned comment added by AT Kunene (talk • contribs) 09:53, 22 May 2013 (UTC)

Hollywood Walk of Fame
Shouldn't this article mention his star? Casmeli (talk) 04:07, 30 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Definitely. Do you have referenced information on it? Winkelvi (talk) 04:13, 30 May 2013 (UTC)

Tags
Added two article tags because of some concerns I have about how this article has evolved recently. There seems to be an awful lot of sourcing from one book, and short of editors buying the book being used as a reference, I see a problem in being able to verify those references. Also, the Early Career section has seriously ballooned. To the point of where when I look at it in total I think it's too long and overly detailed for me to want to read. That in mind, that section is going to have to be cut way down. It very possibly has taken the article to a size that might not be within allowable total word-limits. I don't want the editor or editors who have contributed to that section to get upset, so rather than going in an starting to chop away, I'll give it a few days and see if those who've already contributed to that section would like to start paring it down. Discussion here about the tags and everything else I've mentioned is welcomed, of course. -- Winkelvi ● ✉ ✓ 22:09, 13 June 2013 (UTC)
 * I have the Pyron book, and it is the by far the best most comprehensive, well researched and written book published on Liberace to date. Pyron's references are deep and extensive. I do think this article is a horrow show in writing terms at the moment, though. I don't share your concerns over the length, a rich life as his provides much scope for improvement. Gareth E Kegg (talk) 22:32, 13 June 2013 (UTC)

Highest paid?
The leader says "During the 1950s–1970s he was the highest-paid entertainer in the world". Does it mean he was actually earning more than, say, Elvis Presley or Agatha Christie, or is my definition of "entertainer" too broad? I ask because until yesterday I've never even heard of him. --Thrissel (talk) 13:23, 19 June 2013 (UTC)


 * I have not read the Barker book but that is the cited source. Other modern books repeat the assertion; some of these point to the Guinness Book of Records which apparently listed Liberace as the highest paid musician. Binksternet (talk) 15:48, 19 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Encyclopedia of Gay and Lesbian Popular Culture, page 174: "...Liberace the highest-paid entertainer in America, reaching a salary of $50,000 a week during the 1950s."
 * Routledge International Encyclopedia of Queer Culture, page 364: "...he was the highest paid entertainer on the circuit in 1955 when he opened at the Riviera Hotel on a weekly salary of $50,000."
 * Wisconsin Biographical Dictionary, page 239: "...the Guinness Book of Records ranked Liberace as the highest-paid entertainer in the 1960s and 1970s."
 * "Liberace: 40 Glittering Years in Show Business", Billboard, March 30, 1985: "...an entry in the Guinness Book of World Records as the world's highest paid musician and pianist."


 * Those are good quotes, I think I'm getting the picture. Thanks a lot for the research! --Thrissel (talk) 00:42, 26 June 2013 (UTC)

Nina Simone ref
I think his inclusion in Nina Simone's 'My baby just cares for me' belongs in this article but maybe in the miscellaneous section. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Shamrockawakening (talk • contribs) 19:13, 8 December 2013 (UTC)


 * I think it is unimportant trivia, that the biography is not here to serve as a collection bin for every time Liberace is mentioned on TV, in film, and in song lyrics. Binksternet (talk) 19:21, 8 December 2013 (UTC)


 * Please see Handling trivia. There's also a guideline for Miscellaneous sections: WP:TRIVIA. These two pages talk about trivial information and whether it can be included. The second link is about how a section of trivia or miscellany is not such a great idea. The emphasis in the first page is on discovering whether the trivial fact is important to the topic, which in this case is Liberace's life and career. I hold that passing mentions of Liberace should not be in the article unless they are demonstrably important. Binksternet (talk) 19:32, 8 December 2013 (UTC)