Talk:Liberal (steamship)

Confusing paragraph - Rocca article
I'm trying to edit this paragraph to increase its clarity and accuracy regarding the people involved:

"On August 5, 1907 Benjamin Saldana Rocca published an article titled 'La ola de sangre' which may translate to 'The wave of blood' and Saldana's information was based on an eyewitness of a murder, named Juan Vela. Vela, who was a cook on Liberal at the time, went to the upper deck of the ship to investigate a commotion he was curious about. Vela then saw Zubiaur fiercely beating an employee of Arana's company named Juan Juarez. Zubiaur began kicking Juarez when he fell to the ground, with one blow landing on Juarez's head. Captain Zubiaur dragged Juarez to the second-deck of the ship, where he ordered six sailors to continue beating Juarez. Afterwards, they threw him off of the ship onto land, abandoning him on the bank of a river. Juarez apparently shot himself, 'because he was suffering a lot of pain and could not heal'."

The big issue that I've found with this paragraph is that it calls the incident a murder, but the victim (Juarez) appears to have killed himself some time later which means that this was an altercation and not a murder.

My proposed revision follows: "On August 5, 1907 Benjamin Saldana Rocca published an article titled, 'La ola de sangre' ('The wave of blood'), which detailed the eyewitness account of an altercation aboard Liberal. The witness was a man named Juan Vela who was a cook onboard Liberal at the time. While below deck, Vela heard a commotion and went to the upper deck to investigate. On arrival, he witnessed Captain Zubiaur beating an employee of Arana's company named Juan Juarez. Zubiaur began kicking Juarez until he fell to the ground and then struck him in the head. Zubiaur dragged Juarez below deck and then ordered six sailors to continue beating him. Afterwards, they threw him off of the ship onto the riverbank and abandoned him there. The account then details that Juarez later shot himself due to being in a great deal of pain and unable to heal his wounds."

Additionally, I was unable to find the cited story under reference 13 and unfortunately cannot find reference 12 to check myself. Infectedfreckle (talk) 22:42, 14 June 2024 (UTC)


 * Hello ! I appreciate that revision you’ve proposed, and I definitely forgot to add the “Catalogue of crime source”
 * https://catalogue.nli.ie/Record/vtls000722524
 * ^ “A catalogue of crime” the page number is 87-88 and you want to look for the actual page number and not the slide number is what you’re looking for on the reference. The other source used is from a Spanish source that
 * https://books.google.com/books?id=HJ_NngEACAAJ&q=Juarez#v=snippet&q=Juarez&f=false
 * that link is “Las crueldades” and the page is 146 for the same article by Saldaña in Spanish. Arawoke (talk) 01:54, 15 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Thank you so much! I will take a look at those sources although I cannot read Spanish. I also work quite a lot and understand. After I double check the validity of my proposed revision I will make the edit. Infectedfreckle (talk) 02:15, 15 June 2024 (UTC)

I will try to fix those citations tonight or tomorrow morning however I am currently at work. Good luck on your edits and thank you again for your contributions!

Areas to focus on prior to publication
-Las Crueldades claims that Loayza was arrested with the other perpetrators of the attacks, and they were held at La Chorrera for two months. -Mention Saldana article that implicates Loayza with organizing the attacks
 * Clarify Loayza's involvement with the raids against La Union and La Reserva, and his presence on the Liberal.


 * Clarify that the Colombians denied the Peruvian's on Liberal permission to land at the port of La Union.


 * J.C. Arana and Carlos Rey de Castro travelled on Liberal to La Chorrera [around May?] and they were accompanied by America, which had the prefect of Loreto on board, Carlos Zapata.??? Check sources, I believe I saw information that America accompanied Liberal, however Las Crueldades states that Pollack, Zapata and Arana travelled on the Liberal, however that page does not mention Rey de Castro. Casement 2003 page 643 states that Zapata travelled onboard the Cosmopolita and NOT the America. This page does not clarify if Arana, Castro and Pollack accompanied Zapata on the Cosmopolita or a different ship, only that they all travelled to La Chorrera. Casement's info here is sourced from Remigio Vascones, a marine engineer that told Casement he was onboard Cosmopolita when it conveyed Zapata to Chorrera.


 * Liberal involvement in the forced migrations of the 1920's, organized by Loayza and J.C. Arana.


 * Gaspar de Pinell, who travelled on the Liberal in 1918, stated that Casa Arana y [Cecilio] Hernandez remained the masters of the Igaraparana - Caraparana Rivers.

-, Casement: "I was informed that several of the worst men would be dismissed and brought back to Iquitos by this vessel so that they would not be on the Putumayo when the judge began his enquiry there."
 * Mention Casement's fears regarding Zumaeta's voyage to the Putumayo in December of 1910 with Dublé.


 * Casement mentioned that he (and each of his guides) was charged £2 per day for their conveyance to and from the Putumayo estates.


 * Comissario of the Putumayo in 1911, Buenano, was stranded by the Liberal in November of 1911. "A few days after Buenano's appointment, the Liberal (the Arana steamer) left for the Putumayo where 40 tons of rubber are reported to be ready for shipment. The Prefect ordered Buenano to go by her - and in order to avoid carrying him the "Liberal" left before her hour & he was stranded in Iquitos whence there will probably not be a vessel to the Putumayo for 6 weeks or 2 months. He came down by this launch on which I am travelling to a place a few miles below Iquitos where he landed & with a party of Indians will walk right across country, over swamp & stream & get to his post as soon as if he had gone by the Liberal." | Captain of the steamer Anastasia, owned by John Lilly & Cos, believed that Buenano was left behind on purpose. Buenano was under the impression that Pablo Zumaeta sent the Liberal away prior to its official departure time.| "The Prefect [of 1911] and his local authority may be dismissed as of little or no account in the present fight.. He equally is assisted in the El Heraldo and when he sought to replace the criminal comisario, Amadeo Burga with a new official )directly chosen by Dr. Paredes I learn and who impressed me very favourably) the Company's steamer the Liberal leaves Iquitos without the new official, accelerating her departure in order that he should be left behind."

Arawoke (talk) 18:22, 17 June 2024 (UTC)
 * One source claims that Liberal was involved in the Colombia-Peru conflict of 1932.

Which style of English should this article use
@Arawoke which style of English do you prefer? I noticed that you use the spelling "travelling" after I had ignorantly changed it several times.

Also, apologies if any of my edits are annoying. I'm learning to copyedit by combing this article a thousand times. Infectedfreckle (talk) 00:56, 18 June 2024 (UTC)


 * No worries, thank you for asking! I am unsure rather the article should be in "American English" or "British English" however I think that the quotations should be left in the MOS the original author wrote them in Arawoke (talk) 16:31, 18 June 2024 (UTC)

Bold Edits
I'm going to make some bold edits in an effort to remove fluff. Feel free to revert or discuss them with me, you won't hurt my feelings. Infectedfreckle (talk) 01:07, 18 June 2024 (UTC)


 * After reading your research many times over, my goal is to highlight the Liberal's implication in the atrocities as that is what makes it notable. Infectedfreckle (talk) 02:34, 18 June 2024 (UTC)