Talk:Liberation Army of Chameria

NPOV tag
...with the edit summary "POV, no evidence, links from 2001 presented as if it was today.... they do not exist!!".


 * 1) "POV": What is POV? what must be done in order not to be POV? Please elaborate.
 * 2) "links from 2001": There are other more contemporary links too.
 * 3) "presented as if it was today": Where are they presented as such? What does this have to do with anything?
 * 4) "they do not exist": Says who? Can we add that too? Is there a source?

Please reply. NikoSilver 13:20, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

Edited
Some misleading statements. I qualified "The Greek police report that the group currently consists of approximately 30-40 Albanians," with "As of 2001" (same with the 2001-communist source" because the article made it seem like these were recent occurences.

Why can't we call this a defunct organization? It's generated no activity since 2001 and never made a single attack on Greece. By comparison, the Northern Epirus Liberation Front (MVAI) caused more damge than these guys (http://72.14.205.104/search?q=cache:Mh3XsafOgcEJ:www.tkb.org/MorePatterns.jsp%3FcountryCd%3DAL%26year%3D1994+Northern+Epirus+Liberation+Front&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=8&gl=us).


 * I don't see a source saying it is defunct. We have an article on the Northern Epirus Liberation Front. - Francis Tyers · 15:20, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

How long do you wait then? 10, 20, 30 years before you can call it defunct? If they were going to do something they would've done it by now, especially during the chaos from 1999-2001 when tensions were highest. I doubt they'd just come out all the sudden and say "Hey, we give up" now when they never did anything to begin with.

If I or someone else added "Possibly defunct" as a qualifier, that would still be NPOV, would it not?


 * No it wouldn't be NPOV. It doesn't have to be a primary source stating that, a reliable secondary source would be acceptable. - Francis Tyers · 18:03, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

Article for delition
The evidence for the existence of this group is untenable. Two of the sources given are the same and the commentator in them denies the existence of any such activities. Another one is of an extreme(ish) right wing Greek group and speculative. There have been no recorded activities for such a group or any statments made. Unless concerete evidence is presented I suggest this article has been created for the sake of creating an article on a non-existent terrorist group. All the evidence seems dated in 2001 when Greece was extremely vigilant to seal its borders from any terrorist groups who would penetrate the country and eventually threated the Olympic Games. Politis 15:19, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

WikiProject class rating
This article was automatically assessed because at least one WikiProject had rated the article as stub, and the rating on other projects was brought up to Stub class. BetacommandBot 16:34, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

Source
Workers World is not a reliable source. Contralya (talk) 22:14, 24 December 2007 (UTC)

UCC is a Greek fabrication
Article based on speculations from the greek press. No concrete proof of existence of UCC. Article should be completely deleted.--I Pakapshem (talk) 21:18, 14 September 2009 (UTC)
 * This is not a Greek source. Gregory R. Copley,THE ROAD TO PEACE IN THE BALKANS IS PAVED WITH BAD INTENTIONS,Washington, DC, June 27, 2007,"What we saw with the Bush visit to Tirana was the emergence of the Albanian thrust — supported by both the Government of Albania and the KLA — of an Albanian sponsored group, the UCC,4 seeking secession for part of Greece, Epirus, known historically also as Chameria. The Cham people draw, to some extent, their identity from a community formed in the Epirus area of Greece by the Roman Army some two millennia ago. The reality today, however, is that the Chameria Liberation Army — the UCC — was formed by the KLA and is in fact a part of the quest for a “Greater Albania”, and its proponents have said as much.A delegation of the UCC on June 10, 2007, delivered a letter to President Bush during his visit to Tirana. The UCC letter referred to the existence of an Albanian minority in Western Greece (Epirus) and the UCC requested recognition of the “genocide of the Albanian Chamerians” allegedly conducted by the Greeks in the end of World War II, and to recognize “the right of the people to return to their homes in Greece from where they were expelled”, and “return their estate that was attached”,plus other nationalist requests.And a few weeks before President Bush’s arrival in Albania, UCC delegations delivered letters to the US embassies in Rome and Tirana. Albanian nationalist sentiment and protests increased, along with strong propaganda against the Greek minority in southern Albania, after the Bush visit to Tirana. The UCC, meanwhile, has been building its support base with demonstrations and events leading toward today — June 27, 2007 — the date that the Albanian Parliament in 1994 called the “Chameria national anniversary”. The presence of President Bush in Albania, then, and his statements supporting the independence of Kosovo, encouraged and triggered the extreme feelings of nationalist Albanians, who are also seeking independence in western FYROM, and the Greek region of Epirus. Indeed, the Albanian people have for decades, but increasingly in the past 15 or so years, been so distracted by leaders who have promised that they could, and should, have some of their neighbors’ wealth, that they have allowed those leaders to fail them in actually creating wealth and strength in Albania itself."Megistias (talk) 21:29, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

Yeah yeah, no proof. I will nominate this article for deletion. Speculation, wether by Copley or anybody else is not reliable. --I Pakapshem (talk) 22:01, 14 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Thats not a speculation but fact, the source is clear.You can nominate it, its your right.Makes no differenceMegistias (talk) 22:03, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

You seem to not know proper english. Fact is something that can be tested and proven. Copley proves nothing about it's existence in the above rant.--I Pakapshem (talk) 22:05, 14 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Copley advises important people and knows what he is talking about.The reference is solid as they come.Megistias (talk) 22:06, 14 September 2009 (UTC)
 * 1 Gregory Copley is President of the International Strategic Studies Association (ISSA), based in Washington, DC, and also chairs the Association’s Balkans & Eastern Mediterranean Policy Council (BEMPC). He is also Editor of Defense & Foreign Affairs publications,and the Global Information System (GIS), a global intelligence service which provides strategic current intelligence to governments worldwide. He is a founding Director of Future Directions International (FDI), the Australian strategic research institution, based in Perth. Mr. Copley is author of numerous books on strategic issues and history, including the recent book published by Simon & Schuster, The Art of Victory. In the latest of a series of awards, he was made a Member of the Order of Australia in the Queen’s Birthday Honours List of June 11, 2007, for his contributions to strategic philosophy. His Washington-based institute has for more than three decades worked on issues related to terrorism, psychological strategy and grand strategy issues, as well as intelligence. He advises a number of governments, often at head-of-state level, on these issues.Megistias (talk) 22:08, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

That means nothing. The CIA advised Bush about weapons of mass destruction being present in Iraq, but nothing was found afterward. The paragraph above is nothing but a rant with no back up, no matter who it comes from.--I Pakapshem (talk) 22:10, 14 September 2009 (UTC)
 * The only rant without backup I see here is the above posting. --Athenean (talk) 22:13, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

You don't have to be so blantant with your nationalist agenda, it shows clearly in everything that you do Athenean. I am nominating this article for deletion.--I Pakapshem (talk) 22:18, 14 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Go ahead, have fun. --Athenean (talk) 22:30, 14 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Not really the reference is excellent.Megistias (talk) 22:12, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

It's excellent to you because it satisfies your objective.--I Pakapshem (talk) 22:14, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

As Visar and Anna demonstrated, Copley is an extreme POV pusher pro hellenic pro slavic reference and anything but excellent or reliable. --I Pakapshem (talk) 15:19, 15 September 2009 (UTC)

Ok, let's talk here about this "Army". I cannot see one single source. Either they are in Greek or they are not inline. Could someone clear my "dubious" tags? I really think this article should be improved. --SulmuesLet's talk 23:32, 30 May 2010 (UTC)


 * Vickers is online and English so I remove the tags.Alexikoua (talk) 13:17, 11 September 2010 (UTC)

Dubious tags
I'll check the sources and especially Vickers []. She makes some descriptions on the issue and about what the press claimed about this organization, I'll check the following hours. Right now I've removed some parts that were recently added and are completely wp:or, like the claims this youtube stuff and that the organization was founded in Thesprotia (map is also irrelevant in the specific article).Alexikoua (talk) 19:28, 31 May 2010 (UTC)


 * Three months and you still haven't done anything Alexi. --  S ulmues (talk) 19:34, 19 August 2010 (UTC)

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