Talk:Libertadores

Who are the Libertadores
While I think Bolivar and San Martin are widely accepted as Libertadores and the most famouse of them, it is not clear who are really Libertadores, and who just local caudillos.

Sucre, Artigas and O'Higgins are, to my understanding, also prominent Libertadores behind the two aforementioned, but then the line becomes blurry.

I found the description of a book on the Libertadores that focus in 8 battles of the independence wars of South America. I haven't been able to find anything like a list of Libertadores, but perhaps that could be a start.

Martí helped Cuba's independence more with his pen than with his gun, had not military command, and died before the independence, same goes for Hidalgo

Miranda was a pioneer in the attempt of independence, but he actually didn't Liberate anyone.

Duarte, worked in a more local scope and are perhaps considered below the ones I've already mentioned, but still fought the Spanish Empire for their independence.

I've never heard of Maceo Grajales being called a Libertator

Finally I really consider Pedro I of Brazil as a non-Libertadores: he was imperialist, didn't fight any war, and died in his motherland Portugal.

I sugges we comment on the text about San Martin and Bolivar being recogniced as the most important Libertadores, then list other prominent liberators of the 19th century's wars of Independence, and finally name in a short paragraph the most important idealist and revolutionaries that might not be exactly libertadores.

Mariano (t/c) 07:43, 11 September 2006 (UTC)


 * What does the word 'Libertador' mean? Someone who frees a country. Didn't Pedro I do that to Brazil? Lenineleal 18:52, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

Mariano has a point here
This discussion began when I added Manuel Belgrano to the list of Libertadores and Mariano reverted my contribution. I told him that Belgrano should be included because of his popularity and his victories in Tucumán and Salta, but if we grant this distinction only to leaders who transcended the limits of their countries, it is also true that the victories of Tucumán and Salta were achieved in Argentine territory. As for several other leaders in the list, we shouldn't measure all of them with the same criterion, if we concede that each Latin American country have a right to nominate their own hero as a Libertador - except, perhaps, Panama and Puerto Rico, two countries that are somewhat short of national heroes. Sebasbronzini 01:47, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

Religion
What's the point of putting a "religion" column in that table? (where everyone is obviously roman catholic since it was the official/imposed religion brought from Europe). What's the relevance of that "information"? There were no religious implications in any of those wars.

I think the column is unnecessary.

Carlos. 190.198.38.121 (talk) 16:58, 13 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Agree with deletion, for the reasons already stated. Salut, -- IANVS (talk | cont) 20:05, 13 July 2010 (UTC)

Battles
It may be a good idea to add a new field linking the battles or actions that turned each one into a Liberator. MBelgrano (talk) 02:18, 19 December 2010 (UTC)

Pigna
I must clarify a detail: initially, the table was was simply there, without specific references. When I got the book by Felipe Pigna, I referenced the inclusion of Bolivar, San Martin, Belgrano, O'Higgins and Miranda. Nothing is said about the others: it's just a brief introductory text, and the biographies of the five men pointed.

Perhaps it may be better to reformulate the table, and include entries for those we have a specific reference naming him a liberator. So far, this would mean:
 * Bolivar
 * San Martín
 * Belgrano
 * O'Higgins
 * Miranda
 * Cochrane
 * Iturbide
 * Dom Pedro I

We may add back the others like Artigas or Sucre as soon as we found further references for them (which should't be very hard). Perhaps they may be already listed at the books by Lansing or Nicholson (whose content is not specified here yet). On the other hand, we should remove the sections and perspective "Libertadores by author", unless we find a real dispute on whenever someone is or isn't a Liberator. Pigna included five in his book, but didn't imply that the others are not, and I suspect that the others would be similar. MBelgrano (talk) 00:57, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

Dom Pedro I wasn't a "Libertador".
Brazil's independence differs from the rest of South America's independence process, Pedro I shouldn't be considered as a Liberator. Hesteriana (talk) 06:06, 31 March 2024 (UTC)