Talk:Lidzbark Warmiński/Archive 1

Polish geographical names in the Warmia Mazury voivodship did not originate in 1945 (with few exceptions: for example Rastenburg - Ketrzyn), but date back to at least XV century, some of them even earlier. They should not be treated like geographic names in Kaliningrad Region, which never belonged to Russia before 1945 and were created then. Also, this article should be redirected to article "Lidzbark Warminski", just like Danzig, Gdingen, Elbing, Breslau and Koenigsberg were redirected to Gdansk, Gdynia, Elblag, Wroclaw, and Kaliningrad.

Space Cadet

Just for the record, SC et al. -- I certainly don't think we should be redirecting all these places to current Polish names. IMHO, the rule should be "what do English speakers think of as the name"? So please just stop being antagonistic. It's bad enough that Helga thinks she has a right to put revisionist non-neutral history on these pages, and we won't notice -- it's no better that a bunch of folks seem to want to wind her up. Just grow up.JHK -- To JHK.

So tell me, "what do English speakers think of as the name for Kaliningrad"?

After all, I didn't redirect anything, rather than that, I expressed my own humble opinion about consistency of naming conventions used in Wikipedia and I backed it up with examples. Now why am I being lectured about having to "grow up", and having to "stop being antagonistic"?

In all my contributions,whenever talking about lands that share both German and Polish history, I always mention German names, I never try to hide or turn around historical facts, and I never hope that no one will notice. So could I humbly ask you, to answer the issue, as originally stated, without resorting to infantile arguments like: "I don't like your idea, because you're antagonistic and need to grow up".

I see my purpose not in fighting anybody, but in finding weak spots in existing articles, and editing them, so that they are more accurate and make more sense.

Space Cadet
 * Hi SC -- yes, you absolutely DO mention the alternate names, and you are really conscientious about it. I also think you write some really great stuff, and appreciate that you actually do legitimate research for your contributions -- it's just that, occasionally (like with the prussian crow), it seems more geared to jabbing HJ and her "everything's Prussian" POV, rather than thinking about the big picture.  With place-names, it often seems to be less based on what English-speakers recognize (and I really don't know about Kaliningrad -- I'm a medievalist, so tend to think of it as Koenigsberg, but that may not be the norm, which is why I haven't even considered reverting it).  Didn't mean to be so harsh, but just felt that, without a legitimate reason for making a change (like, English-speakers don't call it Heilsberg, so...), it would only fan the flames!


 * By the way -- I think the Polish Goose and the Prussian crow would fit very well into an article on negative stereotypes in political propaganda...JHK

I honestly think that there is no conventional English name for either Heilsberg (Lidzbark) or Braunsberg (Braniewo). Nevertheless the Polish names happen to be the official current names of those cities. Those names didn't originate in 1945 like "Kaliningrad", as HJ is trying to imply, but reflect the Polish history on those lands.

Now, about the crow... I do admit, I must have been suffering from a bad case of "male PMS" on that day.

Thank you for everything you said! Space Cadet