Talk:Light novel

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.hack series
Didn't .hack actually start as a video game series? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.76.142.214 (talk)

No, it didnt. It was a light novel first, then the anime and finally the video games, which were last.--Gigaguyser 17:16, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
 * The original .hack storylines were the Anime, the Games, The Manga and the OVA. Speak not when you know not. -Annon3

.hack was a multimedia franchise with the different media developed simultaneously (novels, anime, games, ova, manga, cards,and some radio thing). Jyuichi 03:17, 4 July 2007 (UTC)

Boogiepop
Does Boogiepop belong in this list ? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.249.82.222 (talk)

Yes, it does. Boogiepop was originally a light novel which then became an anime, movie, manga, etc. See the Boogiepop page for more info. Rin Tohsaka 19:01, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

Pictures
Can we get a picture of a sample page? Brutannica 21:42, 14 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Why? That would just be text like any other novel. Someone put up a Suzumiya cover today, but while that is a much better example of a light novel than Slayers, which is ancient history as far as the medium is concerned, I'm not sure I like the idea of tying it to any specific series. A better picture to illustrate this article might be of a light novel display at a Japanese book store. Anyone in Japan want to grab a shot and give us permission? Doceirias 10:31, 17 March 2007 (UTC)
 * That person would be me. I hate store shots, though a picture of various light novels together might not be so bad. Something like Image:Books.JPG, without the crappy blurriness. And actually, a image of an open light novel showing both text and the manga style artwork would be useful to the article.--SeizureDog 10:44, 17 March 2007 (UTC)
 * My problem with showing the pictures and text together is that there are usually about ten illustrations in a 300 page volume. People seem to get confused enough about these being novels or some sort of text/manga hybrid. Seven Seas light novel line might make for some good photos... Doceirias 20:11, 17 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Well, the manga images are probably the most important part of what makes a light novel a light novel in my opinion. Otherwise, it's pretty much just a novella.--SeizureDog 05:07, 18 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Not really. Like shonen or shojo, light novel is just a marketing term. Different publishers have a light novel division and aim certain books at those markets; while they're often of novella length in English that is actually standard novel length in Japanese. The illustrations are certainly a key factor in that, and the cover art is often credited with helping books sell well, but not all light novels have them. Crest of the Stars doesn't, for instance -- only the awful covers. Doceirias 09:02, 18 March 2007 (UTC)
 * God I hate having age/gender groups like "shojo" as genres; they're too damn unspecific. English does have some terms like chick flick, but at least they aren't used as technical terms. As for them being "the standard length", I don't know about that. Basically, the only Japanese lit I've read is Haruki Murakami's works, and they can get pretty long (The Wind-Up Bird Chronicle is 607 pages long). You seem to know quite a bit on the subject though, do you currently live in Japan or own some Japanese light novels?--SeizureDog 09:32, 18 March 2007 (UTC)
 * I totally missed this, apparently. Words like shojo aren't genres, and shouldn't be used as such. Wind Up Bird Chronicle was published in three volumes in Japan, each standard length. I lived in Japan for five years and translate light novels professionally. I own several hundred of them. Doceirias 03:51, 27 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Actually there are target audiences in English as well, such as the highly sought after Male 18-34 demographic. You could call that seinen.  Ad supported media such as television & magazines tend to use such terms quite regularly.  Like he said, it's a marketing term.  24.255.227.118 (talk) 19:01, 11 March 2010 (UTC)

Jargon/Rubies
I'm confused by the term "rubies" added in the new "writing section", especially as it links to an article about the common gemstone which is obviously unrelated to Japanese literature. Is this some kind of new jargon for furigana, or am I missing the point here? --Darkbane 22:59, 25 April 2007 (UTC)
 * I'll change it to furigana. Japanese native speakers usually refer to furigana as ルビー, but English speakers tend to prefer furigana. Either way, it should never have been made plural.
 * As far as the section itself goes, most of looks accurate, but some of it needs to be sourced, particularly the bit about authors padding their works. It sounds true to me, but is probably going beyond what we can say without a source. Doceirias 00:23, 26 April 2007 (UTC)
 * I see, so it was rubi, then became plural, then somehow was linked to gemstones. I didn't know about this term even though it was right there on the furigana page. ^_^;
 * I agree about the sourcing. The page count inflation may or may not be true, but especially bold statements like that really need to be properly referenced, otherwise they just sound overly biased. --Darkbane 02:55, 27 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Please refer to Ruby character for the origin of a word of rubi (ルビ).--Swind 03:47, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

Fansite link
Dang, that was three reverts for both of us. Better move it here. Give me one reason why that link is worth adding to this page. I looked the site over carefully the other day and could see nothing that qualified it for linking here. Regardless of the site owner openly trying to figure out a way to support copyright violations on the forum - a personal pet peeve of mine, but not the deciding factor - this is a fansite maintained erratically by one individual. The information it offers is available elsewhere in more complete and reliable fashions, and it simply does not meet any of the standards for sources. Doceirias (talk) 22:40, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

Format?
Are all light novels published in bunkoban format? Shiroi Hane (talk) 14:10, 24 April 2008 (UTC)


 * No; Jump novels, for instance, are not, and there is some disagreement about whether some book from Kodansha Novels or Kodansha Box qualify. Doceirias (talk) 19:28, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

It has been a while since this subject has come up, and I note that the very assumption asked about above, 15 years ago, is once again reflected in the main article. Would I really love to see the introduction deeply overhauled? Yes. Do I think I could do it without making every other editor here angry? No.

As of this version, https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Light_novel&oldid=1151355464, my problems with the intro include:


 * No mention that Light Novel is a non-trademarked marketing term only, and while there are current standards for what it usually means, it is likely that someone has already published something that does not fit these standards under that term. Outside of purist gate-keeping, it doesn't do a reader not already in the know any good to get an overly restrictive definition.
 * Light novel was originally marketed towards Young Adult, but there are absolutely adult (explicit/smut) stories marketed as light novels. Image the reader who comes here, and then lets their kid read whatever is marketed light novel believing that light novel is a controlled standard.
 * All that stuff about the Bunko-size format is true for the first publishers to use that term, but that term has expanded past those few publishers and even beyond Japanese publishers (gatekeepers aside). The wording for "average 50,000 words" does a great job without being restrictive!
 * I would love to see it clarified that light novels usually include an average of 8 full-page illustrations within the text, with publisher extra illustrations sometimes appearing at the ends - beyond the text.
 * That last clause that talks about light novels adapting and being adaptations could apply to any media type. I'd go so far as to say it's a common misconception that light novels become manga and anime, because in reality light novels, visual novels, video games, manga and anime have all been the "original source" for content adapted to all the others (as has been debated elsewhere on this very talk page for YEARS).

How to put all that into a digestible intro that won't make other editors angry though... that I don't know. Thanks, Vollink (talk) 19:18, 1 May 2023 (UTC)

What are they?
The article doesn't mention what kind of books light novels are. Do they contain pictures? Text only? The only mention of this is : "Light novels also frequently have very short paragraphs, often only one or two sentences in length, and are usually driven by dialogue. The overall effect is for a very fast read." Gambler Justice (talk) 13:21, 7 March 2009 (UTC)

Merge with Young-adult fiction article?
See new Light Novel section on Young-Adult Fiction article.Mike Klaassen (talk) 20:20, 7 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Very glad that never happened. Regardless of what the text of the article says today, there are absolutely things that are "not for underage" published under the non-trademarked "light novel" marketing term.  Thanks, Vollink (talk) 19:22, 1 May 2023 (UTC)

The Illustrations
We should mention that they are done in anime/manga style art, but I'm not sure where to add this. Jaimeastorga2000 (talk) 12:45, 1 February 2011 (UTC)


 * How about in the Lead section. As it is, it's somewhere between confusing and misleading, and talks about light novels inspiring manga. Boneyard90 (talk) 04:17, 24 September 2012 (UTC)

200 pages
The article currently says that light novels "rarely exceed 200 pages". I disagree. The source says "no more than a couple hundred pages". I believe that the intended meaning of "couple" is "few", not "two". Light novels under 200 pages are rare; most are somewhere between 200 and 400 pages. 67.148.124.2 (talk) 08:54, 7 November 2012 (UTC)

Needs clarification of the term?
I am surprised that this article does not differentiate between the wasei-eigo term and the English noun phrase "light novel" used to mean a short and/or easy-to-read novel. I think this could be necessary for non-native speakers of English. They need to know that if they use the term "light novel" when speaking or writing to a person who is not interested in manga, anime, or other forms of Japanese pop culture, their interlocutor will assume that they mean a short and/or easy-to-read novel.

Lead Rewrite
Since the previous lead lacked quality in general, failed to point out important aspects about what is a light novel and had some information of dubious truthfulness I rewrote it in a more concise manner while adding more information and more sources to its content and also correcting some mistakes made by previous editors. - Cilinhosan1 (talk) 06:20, 5 March 2017 (UTC)


 * I put a block of text under the talk page heading 'Format?' above about how I think the intro is wrong, though I imagine it has deviated quite a bit since you edited it 5 years ago (I'm not blaming you, nor did I go looking for blame). Thanks, Vollink (talk) 19:26, 1 May 2023 (UTC)

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2d
"Light novels became an important part of the Japanese 2D culture in the late 2000s." 2D culture? Can we link to an explanation of this term? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 5.80.55.112 (talk) 17:00, 29 April 2018 (UTC)


 * Agree with this. It seems like a way to say "non-video game", but like any other media, light novels are both the origin and vessel for stories across all other media.  I don't know of a good way to edit this without making someone else angry though.  That is, I'm not even sure of the original intended meaning.  Thanks, Vollink (talk) 19:30, 1 May 2023 (UTC)

International Expansion
There were some edit made that tried rewrite this article by just removing references to japan and replacing it with china and korea. From looking at sections from the Korean and Chinese language versions of this page it looks like a section on the international spread of light novels outside Japan could be added with information from those versions.Docarc (talk) 06:46, 12 November 2021 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion: Participate in the deletion discussion at the. —Community Tech bot (talk) 15:08, 5 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Light Novel Bookstore in Macau.jpg

Nonsensical, equivocal attempt at definition
What exactly is described to be a "wasei-eigo", i.e. a pseudo-anglicism: "raito noberu", or "light novel"? If the former: how is that in any way an "anglicism"? If the latter, are you sure, as it looks very much like it were indeed a form of light literature, and one apparently resembling a novel, too?

It looks like a very alien thought & expression pattern led to a probably simple idea being twisted and overly compressed into a short and lacking English sentence, leaving us with more questions than answers. I'm removing this bit and placing it here, until it's been clarified.

Original sentence:


 * The term "light novel" is a wasei-eigo, a Japanese term formed from words in the English language.

My attempt at making sense of the above sentence was:


 * The term "raito noberu", 'light novel', is a wasei-eigo, i.e. a term formed from made-up words which sound English to Japanese ears, a so-called pseudo-anglicism.

But then I became unsure if I got it right: neither raito noberu, nor "light novel" actually sounds like a pseudo-anglicism to me, and that's how wasei-eigo is explained: as a pseudo-anglicism.

A proper "Etymology" section is a must! Arminden (talk) 07:46, 16 December 2023 (UTC)

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