Talk:Ligurian language

Classification
I think Ligurian is not a Gallo-Romance language, but rather an Italo-Romance language with a lot of Gallo-Romance influence. The evidences are: 1) the unstressed -o and -e are respected, they are not lost at the end of words. 2) the formation of the plural of words, where the vowel is changed instead of adding an -s.

You can say that other Gallo-Italic languages ​​form the plural by changing the final vowel, but the general tendency between them is to eliminate the final -e and -o. The only arguments that support its classification as Gallo-Italic are phonetic, but it seems to me that they don't have much value. Romanian has a very similar phonetics to the surrounding Slavic languages, but it is clearly a Romance language, not Slavic.

Article
Overall, I'd say this article is pretty informative, but it really lacks citations and does not flow at all. All in all, this article really needs to be cleaned up and expanded; thus, I'm willing to help, but we need more contribution. :P I tried doing a search for 'Ligurian Language' on Google and Yahoo!, but it did not result in much information. Anybody know anything else pertaining to this language? --72.223.63.167 (talk) 19:13, 25 January 2009 (UTC)

Furthermore, is Monégasque a dialect of Ligurian? --72.223.63.167 (talk) 19:15, 25 January 2009 (UTC)

De Andre did not sing in Ligurian but in Genoese. --87.65.205.89 (talk) 23:14, 8 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Genoese is a Ligurian dialect. In fact, the term "Ligurian" is a fairly recent invention to designate what was previously referred to as Genoese, so as to take into account the diversity of the group and not restrict it to an outshoot of Genes. Genoese is now considered a Lugirian dialect among others.

Yeah, all that business about "The highest artistic expression of this language is probably," and "The whole album . . . is considered one of the best" cries out for citation. It seems a bit hyperbolic. If we want to leave it in, we'll need to find a credible source that we can quote; otherwise, it needs to go away. CKA3KA (Skazka) (talk) 22:32, 13 November 2009 (UTC)

Reference
The previously quoted author Sue Wright can hardly be considered a "scholar" in that particular field, with all due respect. In fact, her piece appears to be another attempt to spread the irredentist disinformation that the Nissard people are Ligurians who were made to speak occitanic by the French after 1860... within a generation! Interesting concept, especially when you know that the French have always made every effort to suppress occitanic. You'll find a wealth of serious publications on the dialectology of that region in the presses of Southeastern French and NorthWestern Italian universities. It is indeed a widely studied subject! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.69.91.129 (talk) 09:02, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

I know many things about this language 'cause I can speak it, what do you need to know? (Geonese and Monegasque are both dialects of Ligurian, so De Andrè sang in Ligurian), Marco

Ligurian wasn't the native language of Christopher Colombus, his mother tongue was Catalan and he was from the Kingdom of Aragon, in Spain
Current studies show Christopher Colombus is not Italian. So, could anyone remove Christopher Colombus from the notable native speakers of the Ligurian language?

Sources:
 * http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/spain/6326698/Christopher-Columbus-writings-prove-he-was-Spanish-claims-study.html


 * http://www.elpais.com/articulo/cultura/estudio/muestra/catalan/era/lengua/materna/Colon/elpepucul/20091015elpepucul_6/Tes

Language and substratum
It is highly questionable to state that there are no links between Romance Ligurian language and its substratum. Any Gallo-roman language carries evident signs of the effect of its substratum: these are primarily phonetic (including inflexion and pitch) and also lexical. It is self evident that speakers of any Gallo-roman language can recognize their language as belonging to the group, exactly for the reasons I mentioned.

However the case of Ligurian is peculiar among its neighbours. It has strong peculiarities in accentuation and pitch and also in phonetics. Eg: b changes into g, f into sc, terminal vowel is preserved as u (instead of disappearing), fricative and liquid consonants tend to disappear. Everybody can recognise strong similarities with Portuguese. This brings about the possible hypothesis that ancient Ligurians were cognate to the Celtiberians living in ancient Galicia. If nobody objects I shall edit the article accordingly, only by adding information about the peculiarities of modern Ligurian. The rest is original resarch, I am afraid.(Aldrasto|talk]]) 03:18, 6 December 2009 (UTC)Aldrasto (talk) 08:06, 6 December 2009 (UTC)

Crêuza de mä
''The highest artistic expression of this language is probably the album Crêuza de mä by the Genoese singer and songwriter Fabrizio de Andrè. The whole album is written and sung in Ligurian, and was considered one of the best in world music during the 1980s.[citation needed]''

This is completely subjective and in violation of NPOV. Since it doesn't even have a reference, I am going to remove it. If anyone would like to reincorporate it into the article with references stating that it is noteworthy and well-received by masses of people, go ahead. --N-k (talk) 00:21, 23 May 2010 (UTC)

Spezzino
There's a language in Liguria called Spezzino, it's speaks in La Spezia. I know that because i speak it. C'mon, someone add it! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.13.94.192 (talk) 16:24, 3 March 2011 (UTC)

Requested move

 * The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the move request was: move) Dpmuk (talk) 01:33, 21 February 2011 (UTC)

Ligurian language (Romance) → Ligurian (Romance language) — Better describes the article's subject and sounds more natural. Theurgist (talk) 13:40, 13 February 2011 (UTC)


 * Ligurian language (ancient) → Ligurian (ancient language)


 * Support move. This seems perfectly in line with the usual naming conventions to me. — Gavia immer (talk) 03:55, 14 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Support more natural disambiguation. walk victor falktalk 20:30, 18 February 2011 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Mutually intelligible with Italian?
Anyone know if it is?Sylvain1972 (talk) 17:10, 31 August 2012 (UTC)

Grammar
Hello, if someone is interested by improving this article, you could add a section on the grammar. To do so, you may use this PDF. Pamputt (talk) 06:38, 27 November 2014 (UTC)

External links modified
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Requested move 27 January 2021

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this section. 

Ligurian (Romance language) → Ligurian language – This language, unlike the ancient one, is still spoken today by thousands of people and has almost eight times more views (modern language has 8215 and the ancient one has 696). I think it should be considered the primary language between the two and that it should thus be moved. Super  Ψ   Dro  01:18, 27 January 2021 (UTC)


 * The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.