Talk:Lilia Tarawa

Proposed merge of Gloriavale Christian Community into Lilia Tarawa
I propose to merge Gloriavale Christian Community into Lilia Tarawa. Secondary news coverage of this group only happened after Tarawa's TED talk: most of the material in the "controversies" section is related to her talk. The demographic information is already beginning to be incorporated into the Haupiri article. Joofjoof (talk) 07:04, 8 April 2021 (UTC)
 * Comment I disagree with the claim most of the material in controversies is related to her talk, only one paragraph is about her talk. 2 paragraphs in cult allegations, the section on their COVID-19 response, workplace safety, and a lawsuit are all well-covered events by themselves, not based on the talk.
 * There have always been secondary sources on Gloriavale Christian Community, plenty before the talk. This article was created on 1 March 2007, the article was read 660,997 times since 2015, 188,020 times between 2015 and 16 November 2017 (the day before the talk), a TVNZ 2 3 part documentary in 2016, and a book published in 2009 about the community. I'm not sure where you are from, but as a New Zealander, anecdotally Gloriavale has always been a cultural icon and a source of public interest. The community is isolated but opens itself to the public annually for concert, so it has been a mystery and a source of speculation for New Zealanders. Nexus000 (talk) 07:31, 8 April 2021 (UTC)
 * Oppose I had a think about the pros and cons of both, but I oppose. Tarawa would be notable for WP:GNG on her own even if Gloriavale didn't have a page and the information on her is more detailed and comprehensive than what a section on another article would have. Nexus000 (talk) 07:45, 8 April 2021 (UTC)
 * Tarawa is the main reason this group has foreign media coverage. Just compare to the Gloriavale article of 2015 . Joofjoof (talk) 10:42, 8 April 2021 (UTC)
 * I'd encourage you to look at this. This search displays the online articles available related to Gloriavale from 1969 (the community's foundation) to 11 December 2015 (when that edition of Gloriavale's Wikipedia article you linked was edited). The Wikipedia article you linked may not have had many sources, but plenty of sources on Gloriavale did exist before the TEDx Talk. I believe Lilia Tarawa and Gloriavale Christian Community both pass WP:GNG on their own and are seperate to each other, so we don't need to merge them. Nexus000 (talk) 10:54, 8 April 2021 (UTC)


 * Oppose, the community is separate from one of its former members, and is the subject of much media coverage since at least the 1990s. The statistical data for Gloriavale from the most recent census (2018) is recorded in the Gloriavale article, and the more detailed statistics for the wider area of Lake Brunner are covered at Moana, New Zealand.- gadfium 08:36, 8 April 2021 (UTC)
 * See, you have found an error right there: the Gloriavale article claims to be in Haupiri instead of Moana. Couldn't we just make the Gloriavale data a section on their town's article? Joofjoof (talk) 10:42, 8 April 2021 (UTC)
 * To clarify, Gloriavale and Moana are settlements within the Lake Brunner statistical area. The statistics in the Gloriavale article are only for the Gloriavale settlement, while the statistics at Moana are for the entire Lake Breunner statisical area.Lcmortensen (mailbox) 08:10, 10 April 2021 (UTC)


 * Oppose. Is this merge proposal a joke? The claim that "secondary news coverage of this group only happened after Tarawa's TED talk" is more bizarre than the Cooperites themselves. Nurg (talk) 09:12, 8 April 2021 (UTC)
 * WP:Recentism is not a joke, Nurg. The article has only 2 sources dating from before 2016. The article in 2015  looked like many other school/building articles that did not survive AfD. Joofjoof (talk) 10:42, 8 April 2021 (UTC)
 * Comment While the article from 2015 you linked only had 2 sources, plenty of sources on the community did exist and it would have passed WP:GNG. Here is the related Google search before 11 December 2015, when that article was edited. Nexus000 (talk) 10:59, 8 April 2021 (UTC)
 * Recentism! The proposal is to merge an article about an organisation that has existed for over 50 years and had hundreds of members into an article about one person who rose to minor notability 4 years ago. That's recentism, if anything is. I know it's not a joke - it's a good faith proposal. But, sorry to be so blunt, I find it astonishing. I'll give another example of recentism - we have an article about Lilia Tarawa but not one about Neville Cooper, who is far more notable!! Nurg (talk) 23:24, 9 April 2021 (UTC)


 * Oppose. Both topics meet GNG. I suggest you withdraw this proposal; this just won’t happen.  Schwede 66  18:11, 8 April 2021 (UTC)
 * Oppose. Arsey boo anyway. Gloriavale justifies a standalone article even if Tarawa article didn't exist. .Moriori (talk) 21:19, 8 April 2021 (UTC)
 * Comment We have found a clear consensus. I'd encourage someone to close this merge request as soon as possible because this article is being proposed for DYK and cannot proceed until the discussion is closed. Nexus000 (talk) 11:33, 9 April 2021 (UTC)

Acknowledgement
Tarawa has acknowledged this page:

https://www.facebook.com/liliatarawa/posts/406595797353913

https://www.instagram.com/p/CN5rgFypNSz/

Nexus000 (talk) 12:59, 25 April 2021 (UTC)
 * I haven't opened either (and I probably won't), but this strikes me as kind of inappropriate. Uporządnicki (talk) 14:08, 25 April 2021 (UTC)
 * Happy to delete if inappropriate. Just thought it was interesting. Nexus000 (talk) 14:11, 25 April 2021 (UTC)