Talk:Limerick/Archive 1

Opening comment
Isnt this a very narrow minded look at Limerick? Shouldn't we add something insightful about Limericks culture. Or how about its booming industrial aspects? If anyone wants to discuss it feel free to do so - 14:55, 31/1/04 Ludraman

The article about "Limerick (city)" should be listed under "Limerick (city)" and "Limerick" should redirect to "Limerick (disambiguation)" - Some jackass kept undoing my correction. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 7hobo (talk • contribs)

Move request?
I'd like to move "Limerick, Ireland" to "Limerick City". Any objections?

Seabhcan 11:24, 1 Jun 2004 (UTC)


 * Its a good idea, but all links should/would have to be moved as well to the new page, also it might be useful considering Naming conventions (city names)? Djegan 12:34, 1 Jun 2004 (UTC)


 * Thanks for that Link, didn't know about it. Seems to deal with US cities though, which are a special case as there are so many with identical names. Among the Irish city pages there seems to be no convention: 'Dublin', 'Galway', 'Cork (City)', 'Waterford City'... There are already redirect pages called 'Limerick City' and 'Limerick (City)'. I propose I move the text here to 'Limerick City' and make 'Limerick, Ireland' into a redirect.


 * 'Limerick, Ireland' has 88 pages linked to it, 'Limerick (City)' has one and 'Limerick City' has 9. If I change the most important of the 88 to point to 'Limerick City', I'd say others will fix the remaining links over time. Seabhcan 13:02, 1 Jun 2004 (UTC)


 * I think this is probably a good opportunity to acheive consistency. Dublin and Galway are of course fine where they are. So, remaining is Limerick, Cork and Waterford. The first two are also terms in general use, requiring one of the following -
 * Cork (city) & Limerick (city)
 * Cork City & Limerick City
 * Cork, Ireland & Limerick, Ireland
 * I suggest no. 2 as the best option.


 * As regards Waterford - well, the term is used for Waterford City and County Waterford, but probably rather than finding a disambig at Waterford one should have either the County or the City, with a disambig message at top. I suggest giving the City prominance. See Kilkenny (technically a city). This should also be standardised for Irish town/cities with matching county names. I suggest that cities be given prominence over counties, but we give counties prominence over towns? So county names redirect to the county, not the town of that name.


 * In summary -
 * I suggest no change for Dublin, Galway.
 * Move Cork (city) to Cork City and Limerick, Ireland to Limerick City.
 * Just checked, Waterford redirects to Waterford City which is sensible (it draws attention to the fact Waterford is somewhat ambiguous - though allows its most common usage).
 * Kilkenny is good where it is, (moving to Kilkenny City would look odd, while Kilkenny Town is incorrect).
 * Other county towns should be at for example Kildare Town, with Kildare being redirected to County Kildare rather than just presenting a disambig page. In this instance, the above example would need changed from its current situation (town page AT Kildare).


 * Whew, I may have overdone the explanation there a bit!


 * Zoney 16:40, 1 Jun 2004 (UTC)


 * You make a good arguement. I agree, lets do it. Seabhcan 17:06, 1 Jun 2004 (UTC)

The article about "Limerick (city)" should be listed under "Limerick (city)" and "Limerick" should redirect to "Limerick (disambiguation)" - Some jackass kept undoing my correction. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 7hobo (talk • contribs)
 * Hi 7hobo. I think calling someone a jackass because the don't let you have your way is not really reasonable. There are many reasons why it is better to leave Limerick here and not move it to Limerick (city). Moving pages around at a whim is not really on. You should make an argument as to why it should move and others will counter with their own reasons. You don't seem to have given any reasons for the move, except that you think it a good idea. Just as it is easy for you to move a page, its just as easy for someone else to move it back. And finally, can you please sign your posts (add ~ at the end). Thanks. Frelke 07:18, 21 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Limerick should definitely take you to either the disambiguation page or to the Limerick (poetry) page. I'm trying to find out how many lines are in a limerick and get a page about some town in Ireland?  When someone types in limerick, I doubt they are curious about the town, or even know it exists.  Hobo7 or someone else who knows how to do this should take care of it.  About Frelke's comments: 1. I don't think you understood what hobo7 was saying should be linked where.  2. Someone who undoes someone else's corrections without discussing it here IS a jackass.  That's covered under WP:Don't be a dick.  Highonhendrix 05:40, 21 October 2007 (UTC)


 * I'd be happy with "Limerick City", but "Limerick (City)" is just stupid. I don't see the article "New York (City)", but there is "New York City". ... Seabhcan 18:02, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

Celtic Tiger
I'd like to add some stuff on the darker side of Limerick: the high unemployment areas like Moyross, Southhill, etc. Can anyone help with this? Info on unemployment rates, violent crime, etc would be interesting. I'd like to show that the 'Tiger' didn't reach everyone. Also the regional hospital isn't exactly up to EU standards. Something on that would be good too.

Seabhcan 13:54, 1 Jul 2004 (UTC)

You obviously have not seen Limerick Regional Hospital lately. I too remember when it was a complete dump. But you wouldn't recognise the place today. Its one of the nicest hospitals i've ever seen ( and i've seen a lot being a medical student) and has nearly quadrupled in size. Also, its name is due to change shortly to University Hospital, Limerick to reflect its new role as the main teaching hospital of the new post-graduate medical school due to open in 2006.

Crime
There should be a crime section in this... Anybody have ideas how to go about it? Seabhcan 16:39, 11 Jul 2004 (UTC)

I agree, the page reads too much like a tourist brochure

There was a book called "Family Feud: Gangland Limerick Exposed" by Anthony Galvin published in 2003 which details some of the infamous ongoing crime stories from Limerick, the Kelly and McCarthy families feature strongly. Maybe this should be mentioned along with the "Stab City" nickname that the city has had.

Hey there everyone. I have added quite a detailed paragraph on Limerick's crime situation past and present to the page. It mainly focuses on the presses view on the city and how the city is been slated by the press, which indeed is the case. If anyone would like to edit or add something on to it, feel free to do so.

Page move
User:Seabhcan's move from Limerick, Ireland to Limerick City was cut-and-paste, not preserving the page history of the former. I've merged the two here at Limerick now, but unfortunately the talk page history is a bit garbled. I had to manually restore comments by User:Seabhcan from post-page move. The main article is fine I believe.

zoney ♣ talk 13:19, 22 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Population
I've inserted a population figure in the text, including the suburbs -- Limerick's city council area represents an unusually small proportion of the overall urban area, with only 54,023. There are 29,124 in suburbs in Co Limerick and 3,851 in suburbs in Co Clare. This is from the 2002 census, vol 1 table 5. BrendanH 15:57, Jan 27, 2005 (UTC)

The point about Limerick City's "real" and "apparent" population is interesting. Officially the population is put at 54,023. This means that Limerick ranks as the Republic's 4th largest city (After Dublin, Cork and Galway). In reality, Limerick is the 3rd largest city with a population of 80,000 plus. The reason for the discrepency is Limerick city's old borough boundaries. These were set decades ago and have not changed in line with the city's expansion through the 20th century. The large and populous suburbs of Dooradoyle, Raheen, Castletroy, Monaleen and several others are not part of the city borough but are actually under the jurisdiction of the county council. Ireland's other cities have all had their borough boundaries expanded in keeping with increasing urbanisation. Not so in Limerick. This is partly to do with opposition from Co. Clare against Clare land being ceeded to Limerick. It also means that Limerick attracts lower state investment per capita, and is often overlooked in national development planning with Galway being favoured as the third most important urban hub.


 * Population set for the city at 52,539 (CSO) and the metropolitan area 90,757 (IDA). This is how Dublin's population is listed and should be the standard for all Irish cities. Rubensni (talk) 11:19, 7 June 2009 (UTC)

Eamon de Valera
Eamon de Valera was born in New York and grew up in Bruff, County Limerick. His name should be removed because the article deals with Limerick City


 * You're right, Hanshans23, and you should correct it. The rule on Wikipedia is Be Bold in correcting mistakes and editing. But be sure to sign your comments! This is done by putting ~ . Also, You might be interested in this: Irish Wikipedians' notice board. Good work on Jim Kemmy, by the way. Seabhcán 16:01, 31 Mar 2005 (UTC)


 * Nitpick: he grew up in Bruree, Co Limerick. BrendanH 10:28, Apr 1, 2005 (UTC)

And he went to school in the Christian Brothers School, Charleville, Co. Cork. I think i may have missed the point...

Removal of The Arts
I disagree with the removal of this section:


 * Several city center pubs venues, such as Dolan's Warehouse, The Highstool, The Vintage Club and Riddlers host regular live music by local groups. An interesting variation on this is The White House with a "Poetry Night" on Wednesdays, featuring readings by both local and international poets.

I think it adds body and interest to the article. Although, "it's not a travel article", we do need current and cultural information. Seabhcán 16:05, 31 Mar 2005 (UTC)

I removed it coz of a comment in the 'is this your first page?' guidelines thing along the lines of 'we don't want to hear about the price of coffee in yer favourite café on the Champe Elyssé'; just thought it veered a bit too close to that - hanshans


 * How about we include the poetry thing only? Its unusual. Seabhcán 22:03, 31 Mar 2005 (UTC)

As a Limerick city poet, i must object to only including poetry. All art forms stem from the desire to understand life through creativity. The HighStool was closed down over a year ago. The Aspersion Music Collective after nearly 6years of volunteering to run gigs (from Fugazi to the Yeah Yeah Yeahs)is out of steam. Limerick city needs to rejuvenate its creative culture, more funding in the work of actors, musicians, writers, painters etc. Let's reclaim our crown of glory.


 * Great speach - but this is an encyclopedia. Try the "A new treaty for Limerick" forum if you want to air your views. Seabhcán 11:42, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

EU law on City Size?

 * "According to EU Law A City must have at least 50,000 people."

Really? I never heard about this. And the 8,591 people of city of Kilkenny, the 44,594 people of Waterford city and the 30,000 people of Newry will be greatly shocked also. Can we have a source for this EU law please? Seabhcán 10:54, 20 May 2005 (UTC)

Are there really only 8,591 people in Kilkenny? And is it really, then, a city? If so then Dundalk, Drogheda, Ennis, Clonmel, Wexford, Tralee, Castlebar, Athlone etc etc must all be cities since their populations exceed this number.


 * Kilkenny is a city in name only (it has a charter as well) - it does not have administrative status on the same level of other Irish cities and is for all intents a borough. Population does not, in itself, make any place a city. Djegan 18:36, 22 July 2005 (UTC)

Proposed section: Layout
The article lacks a map of the city and a description of the layout. I propose we add a section on this. Seabhcán 20:03, 11 August 2005 (UTC)


 * Over the centuries the city's focus has moved from the Castle and English Town on King's Island, across the Abbey River to Irish Town and now to the 18th century grid streets of Newtown Perry. The city center is now the meeting point of the four streets of William's St, O'Connell St., Sarsfield St. and Patrick's St.

What is Limerick chiefly renowned for
I don't agree that Limerick is "chiefly renowned for its rugby heritage" I find the use of the word "chiefly" gives the impression that when one thinks of Limerick one also thinks of rugby, and also having this sentence in the opening paragraph adds to this emphasis. While I acknowledge that Limerick has a very strong rugby heritage this is by no means what it is chiefly renowned for. I find this to be a biased view of the city. Having said all that I am not sure what Limerick is chiefly renowned for. Perhaps others will have an opinion on this?

I argee its pov i'd think hurling before i thought rubgy ,removed (Gnevin 22:30, 15 February 2006 (UTC))

I realise I'm a bit late here, but aren't you being a bit hypocritical? I argee its pov i'd think hurling before i thought rubgy ,removed. The fact that YOU'D think hurling before YOU'D think rugby is simply YOUR point of view. Plus on your page it's clearly stated that you support gaelic games... Suspicious? I THINK SO!!!-- 193.1.98.8 (talk) 11:21, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

Stab City
There is no logical reason why a merge notice to Stab City should be placed on top of Limerick. The Stab City 'article' is little more than a redirect and in total contains the following text:
 * Stab City is a reference to the city of Limerick in Ireland. In the late 90's a number of gangland feuds broke out in the city and the national press invented the term. Statistically, there are no more stabbings in Limerick and any other Irish city.

If anybody feels that is nugget of information should be added to the Limerick article, they can add it in two seconds. Merge notices are for situations when two long and complex articles need to be merged. Here it is a quick decision. Go for it.Seabhcán 18:41, 1 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Dictionary it, or delete it? Djegan 19:03, 1 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Merge notices are for where an editor has suggested a merge, no more and no less. Moreover, you appear to have a broken sense of direction.  The notice is a &#123;&#123;mergefrom&#125;&#125; not a &#123;&#123;mergeto&#125;&#125;.  Both articles discuss the city of Limerick.  We don't have duplicate articles about the same thing here.  However, the reason that I suggested the merge, rather than outright did it, is that clearly the claim that Limerick is known as "Stab City" for the reasons stated needs to be checked.  The article, like so many such articles, doesn't cite any sources.  With the notice, other editors will come to the discussion, and perhaps they may attempt to verify the article to be merged and say "That's a load of old baloney!  Limerick isn't known as Stab City at all." and instead decide that rather than a merger, an outright deletion of Stab City for being unverifiable is called for.  Or, on the other hand, they may come up with some sources to cite.  Either way achieves a better result than just doing the merger. Uncle G 19:34, 1 December 2005 (UTC)
 * The merge notice is not intended to draw attention to stubs needing work. You could have posted a note on this talk page. Limerick is known as 'Stab City' (or used to be a few years ago anyway) but it is derogatory. There are seperate articles for city nicknames - see Big Apple. Googling '"Stab City" -Limerick' turns up 1000 sites, including a US band. So Stab City could be perhaps a disambig. Seabhcán 21:22, 1 December 2005 (UTC)
 * It wasn't a stub needing work. It was, and is, a duplicate article, plain and simple.  Both articles are about the city.  I've pointed this out several times, now.  I've also pointed out that the parallel with Big Apple is a clearly false one. Uncle G 23:39, 1 December 2005 (UTC)
 * You haven't explained why it is 'clearly' false. The Big Apple is a nickname for New York and contains the history of the usage of that name. "Stab City" is a nickname infrequently used to refer to Limerick in a derogatory way. The "Stab City" article has almost no content, but could be expanded to be a history of the usage of the name. I don't have the time or interest to do this. Another example is Big Easy which redirects to New Orleans, or City of Light which redirects to Paris. If City of Light was an article containing one sentence: "City of Light usually refers to Paris." would you put a merge note on Paris too? Seabhcán 17:06, 2 December 2005 (UTC)
 * If it were as superficially bogus as "stab city" was: Yes, of course. This process is known as "asking for the opinions of other editors".  It is a useful tool in some circumstances.  Notice that it works.  Two editors have already given different opinions here, and a third is forming an opinion.  Uncle G 19:45, 2 December 2005 (UTC)
 * It is possible to ask without adding a merge notice. As you seem to agree that the article is potentially bogus, and that we are now having a discussion about it, I have removed the merge notice. Seabhcán 22:30, 2 December 2005 (UTC)
 * I've restored it. The notice is there not just to get your attention alone, and I wrote "as superficially bogus as 'stab city' was". Uncle G 23:25, 2 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Uncle G, How would you like to progress with this dispute? Seabhcán 01:42, 3 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Uncle G has not replied for 5 days. I have added a one line of text to the article and have removed the merge notice. Seabhcán 12:21, 7 December 2005 (UTC)
 * The Stab City article is inaccurate in any case - the nickname dates back to well before the late 1990s and first arose after an incident in which an Argentinean tourist was stabbed. I think this was in the mid 1980s.  I haven't edited the Stab City article as I'm undecided as to whether it's worth having. --Ryano 21:28, 1 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Merge it now - stab city is unfortunately associated with Limerick but it being regrettable is not an excuse to suppress it, but it certainly does not need a separate article.
 * I agree, merge it now. I can't see a realistic prospect for Stab City to become a full article. I think there's a case for a Crime in Limerick article, but not for one on this piece of terminology. --A bit iffy 08:33, 3 December 2005 (UTC)
 * The Stab City article is inaccurate in any case - the nickname dates back to well before the late 1990s and first arose after an incident in which a Libyan Aircraft Mechanic was stabbed to death in O'Connell Street (Main Street Limerick) with a screwdriver one night . This was in the mid 1980s Circa 1984 . The stab city stub should be left as is, separate from the Limerick article but with its own  internal link to Limerick.

Perhaps we can finally remove the "stab city" epithet from Limerick. Fatal stabbing figures for 2006-2007 (http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/ireland/2007/1030/1193444138378.html) surely illustrate fairly conclusively that this epithet is not supported by the facts (in the last year, Dublin had 10 fatal stabbings, County Tipperary 6!,Cork 2, Limerick precisely 1). Or does Wikipedia prefer to take the tabloid route and print sensational stories rather than accurate factual ones? Dontknowoo 23:21, 5 November 2007 (UTC)]
 * wikipedia relies on notability and verifiability; ergo, if limerick is or has been named stab city in the media, this probably deserves a mention in the article. --Kaini 00:36, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

Given that Limerick is not the only place in the world to have picked up this name, isn't a bit of a sick joke that "stab City" on wikipedia automatically redirects to Limerick?
 * First hit in Google for stab city refers to Limerick, which is why I made the redirect. but then google might be tailored to my location. Towel401 (talk) 18:52, 27 April 2008 (UTC)
 * But was it the only hit on Google. It is irrelevant whether Limerick was the first or last hit on google prompted you to redirect stab city to Limerick, It should be whether or not it was the only place to come up in your search.  Which I am sure it was not, as I have done the search myself.  Given the offensiveness of theslur, it now constitutes an inflamatory redirect and should be nominated for deletion. Squidlimerick (talk) 19:06, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

List of Limerick people
I propose to move the list of people on the page to List of Limerick people. Any comment or dissent? Djegan 13:42, 27 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Good idea, should look at doing the same in other articles, where it would be warented, (i.e. size of list, or size of articles). --Boothy443 | trácht ar 06:24, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

Edits by 72.64.142.141
This IP made a lot of recent edits to this article. A lot of it was POV--s/he certainly dislikes the city. The gang information might be usable, however. I'll leave it up to someone who knows more about this subject to add it back in, if desired. --F a ng Aili 說嗎? 16:41, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

City population and ranking
The 2006 census shows the population of Limerick City to be 52,560 vs. Galway City's 71,983, Cork City's 119,143, and Dublin City's 505,739. That makes Limerick City the 4th largest city in the Republic after Dublin, Cork, and Galway. That is the official ranking of the census office and should be reflected in the narrative about relative population size and ranking. It's difficult to compare "urban areas" including their suburbs, some of which may really be towns in their own right. Best to go with the government's official census data to avoid confusion.


 * Agreed that official census data on the city should be the basis. Djegan 16:54, 26 July 2006 (UTC)


 * Perhaps, but Limerick suburbs outside the city boundary are not towns in their own right. Rather they are part of a larger, interconnected and interdependent urban area. The figure for the population of limerick city proper is true, but the fact that it is part of a larger urban area should be acknowleged. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 140.203.12.242 (talk • contribs) 17:39, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

Currently the information on population is very misleading: The population of Limerick city and the immediate urban area (environs/suburbs) is 90,778 (based on the 2006 census carried out by the CSO), of which 52,560 live within the city limits and 38,218 live in the city's immediate environs in both County Limerick and County Clare[1] (see page 171). Either the figure should correspond to the CSO city figure, or the precise "environs/suburbs" used to find the extra 18,218 bodies are spelled out. The referenced document does not have a page 171 (should it be page 60?). And the footnote to look at Meelick and Limerick Rural Area isn't sufficiently complete: there is no "Limerick rural area". There is a Limerick No. 1 rural area, a Limerick North Rural and a Limerick South Rural.

The mess is further compounded by having a different figure of 91,000 in the first paragraph. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Drojan (talk • contribs) 13:52, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

Architecture
A tall building- yes. A skyscraper- I hardly think so. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 140.203.12.242 (talk • contribs) 17:39, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

Crime
The Guardian article does not have supporting statistics The Garda Siochana Annual report does not show Knife statistics. The term is not factual and should be removed.

I have given the crime statistics for all the Dublin Garda regions

(1) Crime

The Garda Siochana annual reports for the years 1998 to 2005 are contained on the Garda website www.garda.ie and have statistics for the 25 Garda Regions

(2) There annual reports contain no statistics for stabbings,

The term Stab City should be deleted as it is not factual as the number of stabbings is not contained in the Garda Annual reports. The term Stab City is insulting to Limerick People or Persons living in Limerick

(3) The average crimes per 1000 population for the 8 years 1998-2005 are:

Dublin North Central 135.37 crimes per 1000 (highest in Ireland) Dublin South Central 107.10 crimes per 1000 Dublin Western 29.15 crimes per 1000 Dublin Southern 28.75 crimes per 1000 Dublin Eastern 26.16 crimes per 1000 Dublin Northern 23.67 crimes per 1000

Cork City 26.45 crimes per 1000 (highest outside of Dublin)

Average for Ireland (ROI) 24.63 crimes per 1000

Limerick 23.75 crimes per 1000 (below national average) —Preceding unsigned comment added by BIARRITZ (talk • contribs)


 * After reading today's news about the children being set alight in Moyross Petrol attack, I decided to pop by to see what wikipedia has to say about Limerick's crime stats. I am actually born in Limerick - St. Munchin's (and am completly ashamed of it.


 * I find it bizzare that there is opposition to referring it to Stab City or denying that there is viscious crime in Limerick. I don't think most sensible foreign people would dream of walking Limerick at night as you'd find in Dublin city center for example. While the Garda stats may show lower rates, the newspapers report the warfare there in quite detail. Limerick IS Stab City... even if they've gone onto guns and petrol bombs.


 * Also, on the stats, are they based on the city or county?
 * As pointed out the official city boundary does not include a sizeable sections of the city...


 * --Wmcnamara 13:12, 12 September 2006 (UTC)


 * Although user BIARRITZ is trying to be helpful by providing an analysis of crime statistics over the past 8 years to make a point, analysis of primary source data is not allowed on Wikipedia (WP:OR and WP:RS. What is encouraged is quoting from other people's published analysis. So if we can find some academic papers on crime levels in Limerick this would be great. Curtains99 14:32, 12 September 2006 (UTC)


 * The term "Stab City" is factual, it is a well-known nickname for Limerick, and it's mentioned in the Guardian article I linked. Dublin North Central is not a city, it's a small part of a city. It doesn't matter if the name is insulting, that doesn't disqualify it from Wikipedia. Demiurge 18:59, 26 July 2006 (UTC)


 * Agree - "Stab City" is of sufficent common knowledge to merit its inclusion. Djegan 19:52, 26 July 2006 (UTC)


 * Agree - There are multiple references to the term 'stab city' from every major media outlet in the country including RTE and the Limerick Post Stab City art installation That said, I have only seen the term used in print to accompany every informal guide to Limerick. Ordinary Irish people outside of Limerick use more colourful language to describe why it wouldn't be their choice of city for a mini-break Curtains99 01:48, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

Frankly, I am disappointed with the unscientific approach being used here: it has no place in an "encyclopedia". Most of the piece on Crime is written in tabloid fashion starting with the pejorative epithet "stab city" which originated in the nineties or earlier and is rarely heard nowadays. The rationale for retaining it seems to be that it is to be found in print in some newspaper somewhere. I am sure one could dredge up insulting terms for just about anyone in the country e.g., "bogmen, "culchies" for anyone outside Dublin. Presumably these have insufficient tabloid import to warrant inclusion here.

Then when someone tries to make a comment based on some real statistics (from the Garda website) and points out that the term "stab city" is unsupported by any hard data, this is ignored. Furthermore, the Garda statistics (if one takes the trouble to look at the site http://www.garda.ie/angarda/annreport.html ) are interesting to a neutral observer because they show that for the past five years Limerick headline crime figures are no worse than other cities like Cork. In a nutshell, the statistics simply do not support the preconceived notions; therefore an attempt is made to ignore the facts.

In fact, if any of the contributors were genuinely interested in writing an accurate piece, they would comment that Limerick headline crime figures were much lower than Cork, for example, in 2001. (Why?) It is only in recent years that they have caught up. Presumably this does not agree with the preconceptions so it is ignored.

One commentator (wmcnamara) states that even though the crime rates are lower, it is clear to him that Limerick is more dangerous! Very scientific. (S)he states that one would walk safely down the streets of Dublin at night but not Limerick. Yet the official figures show that inner city Dublin is 3-4 times more dangerous than anywhere else in the country. Even anecdotally, most people are aware of the dangers of Dublin at night. But not this particular commentator who”knows” (s)he is right…

Demiurge tells us that Dublin North central is not a city which is indeed true. However it is a populated area of approximately the same size as Limerick and this is why it is quoted and mentioned in the Garda statistics and why the comparison is a meaningful one. It is no disgrace that inner city Dublin is more dangerous than anywhere else; this is more or less normal for capital cities.

If the Crime piece were written in a balanced way, it would lead with the details of the crime statistics, which, again, do not support the qualitative details which surround it. The final two paragraphs in the piece describing some recent violence in Limrick are again sensationalist and aimed at “disproving” the statistics by someone with an agenda. Frankly one could produce similar pieces on any city in Ireland e.g., the recent murder of the Latvian lady in Dublin or the shooting dead of the innocent plumber yesterday again in Dublin. However I have no desire to sensationalise the crime situation in Dublin (which would be very easy to do).

Paraphrased the whole crime piece reads as follows: “the crime statistics for Limerick are more or less normal for urban areas in Ireland…but we know better..and to prove it here are a number of examples...”

I am sure that the piece on crime can be improved. State the available statistics and add supporting facts. Forget the sensationalist approach. Leave it to the tabloids. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.41.101.179 (talk • contribs)

Hello 86.41.101.179: Limerick, for a city of such smaller population, has a HIGHER crime RATE to other Irish cities. In fact it is HIGHEST in EUROPE!

It has been known in 2006, 2008 that average gangland murders a year,per capita (ie the RATE) gives Limerick the highest rate of crime-related homicide in Europe.

There are hundreds of references. here's one: http://www.independent.ie/opinion/analysis/one-more-killing-and-limerick-is-murder-capital-of-western-europe-134911.html

and another few: http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2008/0311/1205104616151.html http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/nov/30/ireland

Rates seem to be getting better in 2009/2010 though, but you can't confirm the inpartiality of the source: http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0301/limerick.html http://www.limerickblogger.ie/forum/viewtopic.php?pid=43359

Regarding walking at night, I'm not going to poll people to get results, but Dublin city is a tourist capital. Limerick is not. The temple bar area is bustling with tourists every night, I don't think anyone would have a problem there. Limerick is a different story. I don't know it well enough to comment though. http://members.virtualtourist.com/m/1e372/48097/

Some examples are reported here: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055846743

Many independent sites and sources know it as Stab City: a simple example: http://www.irelandlogue.com/limerick —Preceding unsigned comment added by 15.203.137.73 (talk) 15:20, 6 May 2010 (UTC)

Cities in Ireland
Unfortunately it appears content (irrespective of quality) is now determined by straw votes, see Talk:Cities in Ireland. Comments welcome. Djegan 19:28, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

problem paragraph
"Although officially the fourth largest city in Ireland, it is (and almost always has been) generally considered as Ireland's 'Third City' with an urban area population some 25,000 greater than Galway's. However, if Limerick's ancient official city boundaries remain unchanged it is forseeable that within a decade Ireland's fifth largest city, Waterford, will overtake Limerick as the fourth largest, even though Waterford City is literally half Limerick's size in terms of both urban area and true population."POV, future looking speculation, see Wikipedia is not a crystal ball, no sources for anything in this paragraph.I think it should be dropped. Curtains99 20:54, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

More on the ranking of city sizes
Most people understand that the size of a city and the size of the city with its suburbs are two different things. Dublin, in common parlance has a population of about 1 million, but the formal population of the city is about one-half that. Limerick city has a population that is about 20,000 people less than Galway city according to the 2006 census data. That's what the census bureau says, and that's what Wikipedia should repeat. The distinction is clearly made in the paragraph which states that Limerick is the 4th largest city in the Republic and the 5th largest urban area on the island.


 * I think rankings should be dispensed with as their use is more about "our city is xxx than yours"; and apart from terms like largest/smallest and most/least (i.e. either end of the scale) are of dubious function. Djegan 21:42, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

Crime: POV and Original research
I am replacing the original research (in violation of WP:NOR) carried out on garda crime stats with a referenced comment from someone who thinks Limerick doesn't have a bad crime problem. Also, the phrase "with the Dublin-based media dubbing it 'Stab City' " is not good. It implies that the origin of the name is known to be the Dublin media. Yet there is no proof of this presented. There are references to 'stab city' in non-Dublin media outlets such as here and here. The media may not have been the source of the name, they may merely have reported a name in use already. So that has to go too. Curtains99 16:52, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
 * So we are not allowed point out official Garda crime statistics in a section concerning crime in Limerick? That seems to me to be a ludicrous interpretation of WP:NOR. I've restated it in a less pointed way, but the crime rate is clearly relevant to this section and needs to stay in. Demiurge 17:33, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
 * I have no problem stating the Garda figures, and don't think it is original research. But those figures show that Limerick County has a higher rate than Cork City in 2005. 31/1000 for Limerick vs 27/1000 for Cork. Dublin is 39/1000. This makes Limerick second after Dublin for reported crime per population. Limerick's figures are up 25% in the year 2004-05 while Cork is up only 4%. Further, the "Limerick"; figures quoted include both city and county. Cork County's crime figures are about half that of Cork city, so its likely that Limerick City's figures are considerably higher than 31/1000 in order to drag the combined figure up. Lord Seabhcán of Baloney 19:55, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Ah, my mistake, I had been looking at the wrong column in the report. I'll modify the article to correct this. I take your point about the city/county being combined for Limerick yet separate for Cork; unfortunately that's the best the Garda statistics provide. Demiurge 20:35, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Another word of caution on these figures is that they are calculated on an assumption of a constant population, the CSO 2002 figures. So the 4% increase in Cork from 2004-05 is based on dividing the number of 2004 and 2005 crimes by the 2002 population. However, the population has been rising at a high rate, about 3% a year. The real crime rate rise in Cork is probably closer to 1% or lower. (but this is an example of original research by me and shouldn't be included in the article) Lord Seabhcán of Baloney 21:04, 6 November 2006 (UTC)


 * We are back to users adding their own analysis of primary source data to build a case for a point of view. User:Dontknowoo has added his own analysis; in this case by averaging statistics on reported crime over an arbitrary selection of years for an arbitrary category of crime and using figures for County Limerick in an article on Limerick city. An opponent to User:Dontknowoo's POV could easily add analysis of primary data showing the opposite: for example by selecting homicide data and comparing for 2005 alone to 'prove'that Limerick is the most dangerous place in the country. This process of editor analysis of primary source is endless and pointless and forbidden by Wikipedia policy. See WP:OR and WP:RS for details. What we can do is to summarise secondary sources that analyse crime statistics in Limerick. Curtains99 20:34, 5 December 2006 (UTC)


 * We are getting somehwere now. In User:dontknowoo's last reverted POV edit, I notice s/he was trying to add a reference to a newspaper article about a Limerick maths professor who had analysed crime in Limerick and drawn his conclusions. This is way better than all the original research analysis of crime stats added by various well meaning editors. Also it trumps local politicians and city officials who were the only source I could find supporting the argument that Limerick is not a high crime place. On the downside, he is not a criminologist and the analysis was not peer reviewed but still it's an improvement on anything else we have. So I am going to add this source in a neutral way and take out the quote from Mary Dundon. Ideally, for balance, we could find an article by some other academic claiming the opposite.Curtains99 18:13, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

Seabhcan's comments on crime statistics in Limerick deserve comment. Yes the Limerick headline crime figures for 2005 are worse than for Cork (But why not comment that the Cork 2004 figures are higher than the Limerick 2004 figures? Is it because this doesn't fit preconceived notions?). Furthermore there are figures available for the years 2001-2005. Why not use them all? That is what statistics is all about. On average Limerick headline crime is lower than Cork's for 2001-2005. Also notable is the fact that Limerick headline crime in 2001 was much lower than Cork's. It has only caught up in recent years. No comment on this: it doesn't fit preconceived notions I suppose. Again, unhappy with the statistics an attempt is made to massage the figures by referring to city/county. The reason the Gardai state the figures in this way is because each of the areas (e.g., Dublin north central) have approximately similar populations so the comparisons are meaningful. So the fact that Dublin North central has 120/1000 crimes is directly comparable with the Cork or Limerick figures of about 30/1000. Why not make this comment? Finally, an attempt is made to approximately increase the Limerick figures by stating that Cork's population is rising more quickly. In fact the official population of Cork city has remained more or less static at 120,000 for quite a while. The increases in population are occurring outside the city boundary. One needs to use statistics as they are provided; this type of massaging of figures is unscientific and misleading. If the figures do not agree with your preconceived notions, maybe your preconceived notions are wrong, not the figures! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.41.101.179 (talk • contribs)

I am surprised at Curtains99's comments on dontknowoo's statistics. Surely one should use all the figures available to one. Garda figures are available for 2001-2005 so why not use them? Dontknowoo is not using the figures for Limerick county for Limerick city. He is using the available Gardai figures for that precinct. The Gardai break up the country into regions of similar population and present figures based on that (see above). It is inconsistent and unscientific to start quibbling in this way just because the figures do not prove your point. Rather you should ask the question if your preconceived notions are correct. The figures do not support them so where do they come from? (Note that parts of troublesome areas like Moyross are in fact in county Limerick.... Note also the homicide figures for Limerick for 2005. According to Garda figures there was one murder in 2005 in Limerick; there were two in Cork. Does that fit in with preconceptions?) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.41.101.179 (talk • contribs)


 * With respect to the anon poster, I have no preconceptions about Limerick. I am a proud citizen of the city and lived there most of my life. However, Wikipedia is not the place for original research or analysis of primary statistics. This is against wikipedia policy. If the user wishes to carry out this quite interesting line of research, I'm afraid wikipedia is not the place to publish it.
 * What would be permitted would be a graph of Garda statistics over the period suggested, perhaps with a comparison with cork and dublin. (by the way - my comments above were posted long before DontKnowoo came in the scene, so a not a reply to him) ... al Seabhcán bin Baloney  (Hows my driving?)  00:37, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

Twinned with New York?
Has Limerick been twinned with New York? I've seen the press release from Shannon Development but I cannot find any other independent sources and adding it to the NYC page will get a swift "NO". —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Sony-youth (talk • contribs) 20:27, 9 December 2006 (UTC).


 * Okay, its 2007 and this hasn't happened. If noone disagrees I'm going to remove all references to this from Limerick and NYC pages. --sony-youth talk 21:42, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

I'm a bit lost as to which cities Limerick is actually twinned with. Kemper/Quimper seems to have gone through all the hoops as there are signs put up proclaiming the fact in both cities, there is a Quimper Square in the middle of Cruise's Street and I've even met a few visitors from Kemper over the years who knew about the twinning before they ever clapped eyes on Limerick. But Spokane? Starogard Gdañsk? Limerick Pennsylvania? Noo York? I can't say I've ever come across any independent confirmation of official links with Limerick. Also, I remember some time back in the 1980s when Worcester, Massachussets was supposed to have extended its municipal arm of friendship across the Atlantic to us. Maybe some of these came as a result of junkets by our City Fathers or bright ideas by Shannon Development, Shannonside Tourism, the Chamber of Commerce or whatever - but how many of them have actually progressed as far as going up the aisle with the most loveable city in Ireland? Any ideas, anybody? Sean an Scuab 16:00, 2 July 2007 (UTC)
 * this is something that has irked me for a while too. i might send Shannon Development a mail and get the official line. --Kaini 16:06, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

Move Limerick -> Limerick (city) and Limerick (poetry) -> Limerick
Does anybody else think that the title "Limerick" should be given to the form of poetry? In my limited experience, most people associate the word with the poem rather than the city. And a Google search for "limerick" has Limerick (poetry) as its first hit. --JianLi 07:41, 1 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Ummm, look a little closer, JianLi. The Google results return Limerick (poem) and this article in first and second place. It then splits the page and shows three example search results for "Limerick poem" before continuing with results for "Limerick" only, which returns pages such as Limerick Country Council, University of Limerick, Limerick Institute of Technology, Limerick Hotel Guides, the Limerick Post, Limerick 95fm. Other engines like Altavista, Ask.com and Yahoo! also return results for the city when queried for "Limerick" but ask if the user meant "Limerick poetry."
 * I would suggest we do something of the same by changing the disambiguation link at the top of the article, to read something like: "This article is about the city in Ireland. For the humorous type of poetry, see Limerick (poetry). For other uses, see Limerick (disambiguation)." --sony-youth talk 09:26, 1 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Seeing that the poetry is almost certainly named after the city, I think the city should be first. Frankfurt doesn't direct to a sausage and Kiev doesn't direct to chicken. ... Kafkaesque Seabhcan 13:45, 1 April 2007 (UTC)


 * It is actually more probable that the Limerick (poem) originated in Croom in County Limerick. There was a group of poets there (the Maigue poets) who developed this particular type of poem. Thus the Limerick is called after the county and not the city. Rubensni 15.41, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

Limerick Tourism & Development
This page seems to be nothing more than enthusiastic about continued development in Limerick that is doing nothing but destroying the centre. The arts scene is dwindling but more and more shopping centres, mostly in the suburbs, are being built. Limerick has some of the worst tourists attractions in Ireland. The Hop on Hop Off bus has no reason to be such a bus. It is also very old and last summer polluted all the air it went through. I saw it driving around housing estates and down roads with no mention of a tourist sight. It is grossly overpriced. Any attempts to fix this show that this page is not neutral, and refuses to even allow me to list a location that the bus drives through, just so any budding tourist can see what they'd be putting themselves in for.

WHY WAS THE FOLLOWING REMOVED? However, it has emerged that Limerick sees itself as disadvantaged within the Irish National Development Plan (NDP). Limerick clearly has a dissipating regional economic base and an exodus of residential and commercial activity from the city centre. Commercial rent is lower in the city centre than the suburbs, and the city centre must promote its existence through local radio advertisements.[5]

source: http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/breaking/2007/1212/breaking66.htm

There is very little about the reality of the economy in LImerick city centre on this page. It is being run by those with a biased view of a city that is in reality in decline. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.245.125.1 (talk) 17:08, 20 December 2007 (UTC)

Since when is Limerick one of the most popular tourist destinations in Ireland? Most guidebooks keep the Limerick section short and unenthusiastic. Tourists are virtually a non presence compared with the other main cities. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.45.209.192 (talk) 19:52, 26 December 2007 (UTC)

GA delisted
In order to uphold the quality of Good articles, all articles listed as Good articles are being reviewed against the GA criteria as part of the GA project quality task force. Unfortunately, as of September 18, 2007, this article fails to satisfy the criteria, as detailed below. For that reason, the article has been delisted from WP:GA. However, if improvements are made bringing the article up to standards, the article may be nominated at WP:GAC. If you feel this decision has been made in error, you may seek remediation at WP:GA/R.


 * The lead doesn't adequately summarise the article.
 * Every statement that is challenged or likely to be challenged needs an inline citation.
 * References should state the author, publisher, publishing date and access date if known.
 * The geography section needs expanding.
 * External links only belong in the external links section
 * Only full dates should be linked.

Regards, Epbr123 17:53, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

Crime section is biased
The crime section is far too extensive for somewhere with a relatively average crime rate per population compared to other Irish cities. Some statements are not Limerick-specific, but are a general Irish problem, such as:


 * A characteristic of crime in Limerick, a small city, is that witnesses are often intimidated.

Witness intimidation is a serious concern throughout Ireland, and many trials are turning into pathetic charades. Most of the country, even including Dublin, consists of small communities.

I have removed the offending section which read like a school essay. The remaining text is ample explanation of crime in Limerick, and an in-depth write-up on the reasons for crime in Limerick are beyond the scope of this article. Much of the problems are common across Ireland, even if more acute in some instances in Limerick. The full reasons for Limerick's particular problems are pretty complex, and at even a basic level, having the city council control only about half the city area, the poorer inner-city and social housing, isn't something that helps! It is central government in Dublin responsible for turning a blind eye and deaf ears on that issue for decades, most of the last century in fact.

zoney ♣ talk 10:10, 28 November 2007 (UTC)

No crime section at all
... Nor do the words 'crime' or 'criminal' appear at all in the article. Now I know a lot of people seem to think that the city is unfairly regarded in this sense, but no mention of what has been an ongoing story of national interest for several years is a bit much! NaLaochra (U|T)  13:30, 12 January 2008 (UTC)
 * I see now that it was removed as an act of vandalism and replaced... my apologies!NaLaochra (U|T)  13:32, 12 January

2008 (UTC)

Can someone please explain to me why there is a section on Crime in the Limerick article? I don't see a Crime section in London or New York or almost any other city for that matter (small bit in the Dublin article). Can't we just get rid of it? I understand that Wikipedia is a source of knowledge and information and should give a balanced and real view of a subject, but this is taking it a bit too far. Any objections to it being deleted?--Corcs999 (talk) 23:53, 8 May 2008 (UTC)


 * I would be OK with merging it elsewhere. While having a standalone crime section may be unusual, frankly, some the subject matter (the fact that Limerick has had something of a reputation, and that it did attain a nickname in the press and public conciousness) is relevant, and should be retained. Somewhere in the article. It shouldn't be given undue weight, but removing it entirely would not be reflective of the city's recent history (and the broader perception). A wording that brings some of the balance evident in this article might be in order. Guliolopez (talk) 17:20, 9 May 2008 (UTC)


 * I might have a go at that. Certainly the description (somewhat inaccurate) of the feud is unnecessary, particularly referencing certain individuals and the kids getting burnt in Moyross. The Limerick feud might even warrant an article of its own at some stage, but that's another day's work.--Corcs999 (talk) 13:56, 10 May 2008 (UTC)


 * A stand-alone article on the Limerick feud would be a muppet magnet of epic proportions. And no doubt it would be reciprocated with a Dublin feud one. Squidlimerick (talk) 23:33, 15 May 2008 (UTC)


 * You'd wonder why you bother sometimes. I actually wanted to take all of the crime stuff out, if you read the thread. The comment about a separate article was a little tounge in cheek.--Corcs999 (talk) 00:01, 16 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Toung in cheek doesn't translate very well in text sometimes. The fact remains that such an article would be a muppet magnet.  No need to get all defensive about it.  The criminal feud will become a point in Limerick's history at some point just like the pogrom, soviet, and the murdered Mayors, so in that sense it might warrant a separate article.  I just think it would be too much trouble to keep clean. Squidlimerick (talk) 02:26, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

The recent tragic murder of Shane Geoghegan illustrates the crime problem in Limerick. According to today's Irish Times 30 per cent of fire arms incidents in Ireland took place in Limerick, which has four per cent of the population. Millbanks (talk) 00:11, 16 November 2008 (UTC)

With respect to the fine citizens of Limerick: I went to the Wikipedia article to find out more about Limerick's well-publicized crime problems and instead found no mention of it whatsoever(!). Cities that have a newsworthy crime problem have a crime section. New York has a crime section, Baltimore has a crime section, Johannesburg has a crime section, and so should Limerick. Leaving that vital detail out just makes it read like a tourist brochure. But it's not -- it's an encyclopedia entry.--Rhombus (talk) 05:19, 29 April 2009 (UTC)

Limerick Soviet
Any objections to removing the reference to the Limerick Soviet from the Government section? It is included in the History of Limerick article and has its own article as well. It is not appropriate in the Government section, which describes the structure of current local government. Not sure what the Scrap Saturday reference is about either. My view is that it detracts from the overall quality of the Limerick article.--Corcs999 (talk) 13:49, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

Statement based on untimely data from 2006
There is a statement saying that Limerick is the marder capital of western europe. This statement in the Limerick article makes it seem to appear that Limerick is the 'Current' Murder Capital of Europe.

I think this should be removed or altered to reflect that it was relevant a number of years ago. —Preceding unsigned comment added by IrishPatriots (talk • contribs) 19:50, 23 May 2009 (UTC)
 * This statement and supporting article from the Sunday Independent is typical gutter press stuff. There were 7 murders in Limerick in 2006 (pop. 90,000). There was 1 murder in Callan in Co. Kilkenny (pop. 1,000). Applying the same logic, Callan is 13 times more dangerous than Limerick. In fact Moyvane in Co. Kerry had 2 murders (pop. 450) so that's probably the murder capital of the world. Get real here folks.--Corcs999 (talk) 10:11, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

3rd or 4th?
Ips are changing the text to Limerick being the 4th largest city, while editors are generally reverting that back to it being the third biggest. Which is it?  M I T H  17:10, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
 * The city boundaries were redrawn earlier this year and it is now the third largest city in the country. Just need to get a reference for that as the CSO of 2006 has it fourth benhind Galway, as large tracts of the city were (some still are) under the control of Limerick and Clare county councils at that time.--Corcs999 (talk) 17:23, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

Dell
Dell is no longer in the city. Check the Limerick Blogger for details. I can't remember but username or password to edit the article :( —Preceding unsigned comment added by 146.87.102.150 (talk) 11:54, 5 July 2009 (UTC)
 * That is totally incorrect. Dell are still in Limerick and plan to m aintain a workforce of over 1,000 for the foreseeable future.--Corcs999 (talk) 13:02, 5 July 2009 (UTC)
 * For the record, the Limerick Blogger never stated Dell were leaving, it is only manufacturing which is coming to an end in Raheen. Squidlimerick (talk) 03:37, 8 August 2009 (UTC)

Is the city the primary topic of "limerick"?
Is the city of 50,000 people really the primary topic for "limerick"? I think it's fair to say that almost every literate English speaking person has heard of the poetic form. But this little town? Not nearly as well known. I notice that this page was moved to this location, apparently without notice or discussion, in August of 2008.

Shouldn't the poetic limerick, or at least the the dab page, be at Limerick? Unless I'm missing something, I'm going to file a move request to move this back to Limerick (city) (to be consistent with how Cork (city) is disambiguated), and to allow Limerick (poetry) to be moved here. --Born2cycle (talk) 18:26, 17 October 2009 (UTC)


 * As discussed under Limerick (poetry), making the dab page the primary topic seems to be the best option. This page should be moved to Limerick (city) to distinguish it from County Limerick (Limerick City would not be appropriate because City is not conventionally used in the name of the this city, unlike, for example, New York City).


 * Move requested, because Limerick (city) already exists as a redirect to Limerick (this article) with a non-trivial history, and there has been previous discussion about the correct name for this page. Mooncow (talk) 01:51, 5 January 2010 (UTC)


 * The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the move request was: No consensus to move. Jafeluv (talk) 08:45, 13 January 2010 (UTC)

Requested move 2010
Limerick → Limerick (city) — No agreed primary topic, so use disambiguation as primary. Mooncow (talk) 01:51, 5 January 2010 (UTC)


 * Limerick (disambiguation) → Limerick


 * Support — per above. The target name follows precedent of Cork (city), and in a cursory search I found no collisions with other articles on Wikipedia.  --Una Smith (talk) 15:38, 5 January 2010 (UTC)


 * Oppose - I'm afraid that I disagree with this proposal - Limerick is far from a 'little town' as described above and given that the form of nonsense verse known as a Limerick derives its name from Limerick City, I would suggest that the city is the primary topic. However, I have read the discussion on Limerick (poetry) and if those stats are correct then maybe the disambiguation page is the best solution. I still don't agree with it.--Corcs999 (talk) 01:02, 6 January 2010 (UTC)


 * Oppose - Limerick is no small city and easily distinguished from other Limerick-related topics that derive from the city anyway. Limerick is certainly the WP:PRIMARYTOPIC and WP:COMMONNAME. Una's example of Cork is flawed because it is a very different situation as Cork is not derived from Cork (city). ww2censor (talk) 04:52, 8 January 2010 (UTC)


 * Oppose My impression is that the city is the WP:PRIMARYTOPIC, but that is just my impression. I don't see the purpose in making a move when it doesn't appear that users will find it any easier to obtain the information they seek. The poetry is hatnoted and the county is mentioned early on in the lead for the city (well done). I would rather see users lead to an article than a dab. page, but once again, that's just me. --Labattblueboy (talk) 07:19, 11 January 2010 (UTC)


 * Support move to City or whatever, Oppose move of dab to primary, Move Limerick (poetry) to primary, since that is primary meaning. 76.66.197.17 (talk) 12:28, 11 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Support. Clearly the city is not the primary topic.  The size of the city does not determine if it is, or is not, the primary topic.  If there is a primary topic it is poetry usage.  The same holds true against the argument that the city meets the common name definition.  Vegaswikian (talk) 05:07, 12 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Oppose (again) Limerick is Ireland's oldest chartered city (1197) and indeed dates from some considerable time before that. Limerick poetry might be as old as the 18th century and derives its name from the city - so there is really no argument here about the primary topic. It is clearly the city.--Corcs999 (talk) 09:28, 12 January 2010 (UTC)
 * You are missing one minor point. Oldest does not mean primary.  Is there a policy somewhere that I have not read supporting this? Vegaswikian (talk) 18:49, 12 January 2010 (UTC)
 * There is no such policy, as you probably well know. However, I would argue that the city is certainly the primary topic in the English speaking world on this side of the Atlantic. It is certainly a small city by North American standards but that should not necessarily be the basis for demoting the city article, as was originally suggested in this thread. Furthermore, whilst the city article needs some considerable work to bring it to GA standard, the poetry article is only at Start with very sporadic and limited contribution since it was begun in 2002.--Corcs999 (talk) 23:17, 12 January 2010 (UTC)


 * Support as proposed. If there was a primary topic, I would expect such a topic to dominate search results in Google Books and News. But that is not the case: books is mostly about the poetic form, news mostly about the city. I thus don't believe there is a primary topic here in the Wikipedia meaning (note that this does not mean oldest topic; for example, Boston, Mass., is a primary topic, even though the British town is older). Ucucha 10:28, 12 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Oppose. "Little town"? Yet it's a city? The proposal is incorrect in this regard. I would agree with Ww2censor: if the poetry descends from the place I don't see how it needs to be moved. Particularly in the event of the city being around for centuries more than the poetry. There is no evidence that Cork and Cork (city) are even related whereas Limerick and Limerick (poetry) are. This has nothing to do with size as Cork is a bigger city. -- can  dle &bull; wicke  02:43, 13 January 2010 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Spire
user 91.111.16.184 just added that the spire of St John's Cathedral is the tallest in Ireland. says it is 86m. List of tallest churches in the world lists St. Colman's Cathedral as 90m and St Johns at 93.8m (the tallest). - ClemMcGann (talk) 10:43, 4 January 2011 (UTC)
 * I have just inserted a reference from the Limerick Diocesan Website for 94m.Corcs999 (talk) 12:47, 4 January 2011 (UTC)

Population numbers weak
The urban area population in the intro doesn't match the urban area population in the infobox. The source in the intro failed verification: the table at the source is very unwieldy, but it only shows a Limerick County and Limerick City population. The City population is 52,539 and County population is 184,055. There is no source in the infobox.

The city populations are very, very different in the Demographics section compared to those in the infobox. One is over 90,000, another is in the 50s. There is no source in the infobox. The sources in the Demographics section are either books (left these alone for now), or to generic homepages of websites -- not to any specific pages.


 * Generic homepages don't count as sources!

A lot to be fixed and sourced.

Ufwuct (talk) 17:44, 24 May 2011 (UTC)

File:Limerick montage.jpg Nominated for Deletion

 * Oh dear - no one noticed that the image box montage was under threat of deletion, and now it's gone. I've now put the old image in so it doesn't look bad. Does anyone know how to resurrect the montage?--A bit iffy (talk) 21:52, 25 January 2012 (UTC)

Removal of Unnecessary crime section to standardize Limerick with the other Irish cities
I suggest that the crime sections of all the cities in Ireland be standardized. Either a crime section is present in all of their Wiki pages or else there is no crime section in all of them.

Dublin, Cork and Galway pages all began life with crime sections. However, over time these sections were removed. Dublin has had 13 gangland murders this year alone and there is no mention of any crime. Cork and Galway have also removed their crime sections. --IrishPatriots (talk) 04:08, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

I have removed the crime section from the article to standardize Limerick with the other Irish cities.

2009 first 6 months Dublin 18 murders, Cord 3 murders, Limerick 2 murders.

As mentioned previously, Cork and Dublin have no crime sections. Therefore, it makes sense to remove the crime section from the Limerick article.

--IrishPatriots (talk) 20:46, 18 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Please wait for other editors to either agree or disagree with your changes now that you have been reverted.  M I T H  20:56, 18 June 2009 (UTC)

Music in the House, you have a poor track record here. You campaign for the presence of a crime section in the Limerick article but you refuse to have a crime section added to the Dublin page.

In 2009 year to date, there have been 29 murders in the Republic of Ireland. 18 of these in Dublin, 3 in Cork and only 2 in Limerick. 62% of all murders occured in Dublin and yet you don't want to publish that information.

I would like to know what some of the other editors think of this. I believe that you have a hidden agenda MITH and this makes you a bad editor.

So should Dublin and Limerick have a crime section or should they not? —Preceding unsigned comment added by IrishPatriots (talk • contribs) 22:44, 18 June 2009 (UTC)

It appears that no editor has an issue with the removal of the crime section. Please come forward if you want to keep it.--IrishPatriots (talk) 18:56, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 * It appears to me that crime in Limerick is notable, but should be presented in a factual and non-sensationalist way. In particular, singling out named communities should be avoided. The topic does merit a mention.  Nelson50 T  11:31, 20 June 2009 (UTC)
 * But does it warrant a whole section, I notice on Talk:Dublin City you stated that it did not warrant a whole section there, this despite, the fact that crime levels are higher there. It would save a lot of arguements to standardise the sections in both cities. Squidlimerick (talk) 03:21, 8 August 2009 (UTC)

There appears to be an issue here in relation to the crime section. Some contributers are saying there should be a crime section for Limerick and none for Dublin. There have been 35 murders in Dublin in 2009 thus far. There have been 2 in Limerick. Limerick has the fifth highest number. Cork has the second highest. There is no crime section on Cork.

I posted on the Dublin site that with all the voilent murders in Dublin someone should should create a crime section for Dublin. I also agree with Squid that the sections should be standardized.

Seeing as there has been very low levels of crime in Limerick and any gang related individuals have been imprisoned or have left, I question the existance of a crime section for Limerick.

Is this the common view of people without a hidden agenda?

--IrishPatriots (talk) 23:49, 9 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Ah that it were true that they had all left or been locked up - then we would have a happy town. That is far from the case. However, I have proposed to have this section removed before and was shot down. Having brought a couple of place related articles to GA, I can tell you that there are a number of headings that must be included - Crime is not one of them. It has my vote for removal.--Corcs999 (talk) 07:40, 10 August 2009 (UTC)

Agreed, considering the low crime rate in Limerick compared to most other areas of the country, it doesn't make sense to include a crime section when the other counties don't. I agree with the other posters here and will remove the crime section.--IrishPatriots (talk) 20:54, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

Removed this section again after some person tried to slip it in in extremely bad taste May 11 2012. Irishpat77. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Irishpat77 (talk • contribs) 21:16, 11 May 2012 (UTC)