Talk:Lincoln Tunnel Helix

Merger proposal
I propose merging Lincoln Tunnel Helix into New Jersey Route 495. I think the content in the former can easily be explained in the context of the latter, and a merger would not cause any article-size or weighting problems in the 495 article. Needforspeed888 (talk) 18:35, 10 January 2023 (UTC)


 * I plan on writing much more about the structure itself of the helix and giving it a proper description and article, not just a two paragraph stub. There is so much history and even current day debates around the structure that I feel it really warrants it’s own article, and isn’t just a connector to the Lincoln tunnel. As I progress with the article I’ll look at it and see if it’s really not worth it. Jason Ingtonn (talk) 20:05, 10 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Do you have a timeline for working on article? At this point there's more in the 495 article about the Helix than there is here. So as it stands consolidating there seems the better choice while you work on a draft elsewhere. Djflem (talk) 21:11, 11 January 2023 (UTC)


 * At this time I just plan on working whenever I can, though I’m currently researching a little bit about the helix as I write. I think so I don’t cause inconvenience we can discuss if it would be too much to have an entire section in 495 about the helix, similar to as if we had a section on I-95 in NJ that describes the George Washington Bridge, which would be too much. Jason Ingtonn (talk) 01:15, 12 January 2023 (UTC)


 * User:Needforspeed888 User:Djflem Sorry for the @s, I wanted to hear your takes on the article at this point and what could or should be merged into NJ 495. I still have a couple other stuff to figure out like the materials used, but other than that I’m happy with the article so far. I’m contemplating adding a history section, but otherwise this is it. Jason Ingtonn (talk) 00:48, 21 January 2023 (UTC)


 * The article is a mess in that it lacks structure: the information is presently randomly with purpose, description and history scattered here and there with no clear chronology. It is missing citations. It needs major work to be made readable. Djflem (talk) 07:21, 22 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Pinging @Needforspeed888; do you have any thoughts still on whether or not Lincoln Tunnel Helix should be merged into the article for Route 495? It has been substantially expanded upon since several months ago. Doing this so I can remove the merger proposal header on both articles, if needed.
 * Jason Ingtonn (talk) 12:25, 26 August 2023 (UTC)
 * I'm indifferent. As you said, it has been expanded. I will accept whatever other editors want. Needforspeed888 (talk) 12:39, 26 August 2023 (UTC)
 * In that case, I will assume @Djflem doesn’t want to merge this with 495 as they have also helped expand this? If it’s a no from them, I will get rid of the merger proposal headings.
 * Jason Ingtonn (talk) 13:29, 26 August 2023 (UTC)

Discussion (from user talk page)
Import from User talk:Djflem: to keep discussion consolidated in one location.

Hello Djflem, I just wanted to explain some of the edits for LTH I made regarding the view of Manhattan, because, well, I can tell you didn’t concur with them. And compare my 410 edits on Wikipedia to your 100K+ edits and the fact you (I think?) live in Hudson County and I don’t (I’m in Wayne in Passaic), so I respect that you have the higher knowledge in this area, and I won’t try to make a huge thing over this or “convince” you to keep such changes. First- the original sentence was “…has partially blocked the view from the lower portion of the roadway.” This edit was not made by me. I changed it to “bottom of the roadway” as I though it had a better flow to it. About the trees, I included this because a look at a satellite view of the helix (and streetview) shows that trees surround the first half of the eastbound descent, making it hard to see NY, and then there’s the apartment buildings… my point was that this idea of a panorama view driving down the helix was deteriorating, I suppose.

I know this was wordy but please don’t take it as I’m mad at you or anything, just hope that you understand. :)

P.S.- should I capitalize Helix or no? Jason Ingtonn (talk) 03:51, 22 August 2023 (UTC)


 * It's not my personal knowledge that matters. It can inform my thinking, but Wikipedia does not allow No original research. It requires Reliable sources (RS), that follow Citing sources (google maps are not considered RS) Personal observation is original research. "has partially blocked the view from the lower portion of the roadway” and  “bottom of the roadway” sound confusing, especially since it's more in the middle of the helix (as opposed to the roadway) since the upper portion is along the crest of the Palisades known as Kings Bluff and there's never been a view, since it is wooded. Helix or helix, tricky one since that is a sort of "official" name. (Lincoln Tunnel can become the tunnel, for example.) I suppose one could 'fine tooth' the article and try to determine if the proper name is being applied or if it's a more general term such as roadway, bridge, highway. I also suggest looking for ways to explain things in the most concise way possible in a logical order; lengthly, wordy descriptions can be distracting.

Djflem (talk) 10:52, 22 August 2023 (UTC)


 * That’s good to know, for now I will keep it at capitalized Helix for now, to keep it consistent throughout the article. Could always change later on. In terms of views of NY, I will leave that untouched.
 * Jason Ingtonn (talk) 19:24, 23 August 2023 (UTC)