Talk:Linda Carty

Untitled
new video on Linda Carty: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ywb2jx7UNFk

to give her occupation as DEA informant is misleading - see the court judgment her prison resume gives her occupation as labourer she was not married to Juan Corona, so to call him her spouse is misleading.

Place of birth
The BBC says she was born in St Kitts, while the article in its current state uses the Texas Department of Criminal Justice to say she is from the British Virgin Islands - so which is right? GiantSnowman 08:48, 11 September 2009 (UTC)


 * Good catch. I think I would go with St. Kitts as the TDCJ also states "St. Chistopher[sic]" (i.e. St. Christopher was the name previous to St. Kitts). St. Kitts was a British colony when Carty was born, however, the only thing I could find that suggested St. Kitts was one part of the BVIs was our own Wiki article. British Virgin Islands states: "The British Virgin Islands were administered variously as part of the British Leeward Islands or with St. Kitts and Nevis, with an Administrator representing the British Government on the Islands." Location (talk) 09:37, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

Re Carty's birthplace, etc: below is the text of an official e-mail I received May 14:

Good Morning,

Questions regarding Offender Linda Carty, TDCJ#999406:

you give her age as 43, was that at the time of her conviction? you give her Native County ad St Chistopher - should that not be St Christopher you give her occupation as labourer - in her native St Kitts, Carty was a Sunday School teacher, and as she studied pharmacology at the University of Houston I would have thought she had some post as a pharmacist or some such. You give the race of her victim as white, I believe Joana Rodriguez was Hispanic.

1. You give her age as 43, was that at the time of her conviction? This was her age at the time she was received.

2. You give her Native County ad St Chistopher - should that not be St Christopher? Yes, St. Christopher is the correct spelling. This will be corrected.

3. You give her occupation as labourer - in her native St Kitts, Carty was a Sunday School teacher, and as she studied pharmacology at the University of Houston I would have thought she had some post as a pharmacist or some such. In Offender Carty's file, the only employment she claims is as a laborer. There are no references to Sunday School teacher or pharmacist.

4. You give the race of her victim as white, I believe Joana Rodriguez was Hispanic. That is correct, the victim was a Hispanic/Female. This will be corrected. If you have any other questions, please contact me.

Thanks,

Riley

Riley Tilley Executive Services P.O. Box 99 Huntsville, Texas 77342 (936) 437-6510 FAX: (936) 437-2125 E-Mail: riley.tilley@tdcj.state.tx.us

Recent revert
I think some of this article is too "flowery" and should just stick to the facts. I have an issue with the following :


 * "Should her appeal fail, her remaining hopes lie only with the British people and government, a nation in which many people oppose capital punishment. If she is unsuccessful in canvassing support and overturning her conviction or being granted clemency, she faces execution by lethal injection."

I feel this should be simplified to:


 * "If her appeal fails or if she is not granted clemency, she faces execution by lethal injection."

The details are as follows:

1. "...her remaining hopes lie only with the British people and government..." - this overemphasizes the importance of Britich public opinion of the US judicial system. It would be more appropriate to say here hopes rest on the Govenor of Texas or whoever it is who has the authority to grant clemancy as they are the people with the autority to free her

2. "...a nation in which many people oppose capital punishment..." - POV and should be removed. The statement could just as easily state that many people in the UK support capital punishment. Here is a mori poll that claims that 70% support capital punishment http://www.beecareful.info/news/general/74447-channe-4-poll-reveals-70-per-cent-support-for-the-death-penalty.html.

3. "...If she is unsuccessful in canvassing support and overturning her conviction or being granted clemency, she faces execution by lethal injection..." - stating the obvious - i.e. she is on death row so obviously if nothing changes, she will be executed. Should be changed to indicate this

I previously made these changes but they were reverted so any comments would be welcome. 198.240.128.75 (talk) 18:57, 24 November 2009 (UTC)

How were my recent comments unconstructive? Check out my article "Linda Carty, The Reprieve Lie Machine..." or if you don't trust me the appeal judgments which are linked here. Carty's supporters are rehashing proven lies about her case and the media, including the Sun, the BBC and even the New York Times is simply parroting them. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.135.185.163 (talk) 01:18, 30 May 2010 (UTC)
 * All information in a biography of a living person (BLP) in Wikipedia has to be sourced. You can't accuse someone of being untruthful in court without a source. You are also not allowed to add original research.Racklever (talk) 20:34, 30 May 2010 (UTC)

Conviction
The box at the top right of the article says that Linda Carty was charged with, and also convicted of, capital punishment. I thought capital punishment was the sentence, not the crime (which should read "Murder"). Buzwad (talk) 19:03, 8 March 2010 (UTC)


 * That was fixed until today an editor chose to make her conviction for kidnapping only which doesn't come with a death sentence, even in Texas. Figure that. Anyhow, someone will come along and fix it.The Magnificent Clean-keeper (talk) 22:48, 13 March 2010 (UTC)


 * Update: Now she's back on death row for murder but kidnapping must have been a hoax as it is gone now.The Magnificent Clean-keeper (talk) 23:20, 13 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Partial sarcasm is intended in this post.The Magnificent Clean-keeper (talk) 23:20, 13 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Actually, mag clean, there are a number of states where you can receive the death sentence for a variety of offenses other than murder. These offenses include kidnapping, air piracy, treason and until 2008, rape. However, Texas only executes for murder.--TL36 (talk) 09:49, 27 April 2010 (UTC)

Lead sentenece
Can this be worked on to include her notability. Thanks, --Tom (talk) 22:54, 21 March 2010 (UTC)
 * If nobody else tackles this, I will do so in the next couple of days. It needs to tell the reader who she is before jumping in with the protestations of innocence.  pablo hablo. 23:24, 28 April 2010 (UTC)

Copied concerns from IP edit
Stated a few minutes ago by an IP

"Carty did not work for twenty years as a DEA informant. She became an informant in 1992 after her arrest for car theft and impersonating an FBI agent. Her activities led to two arrests.

And why is this link not working?

The Court of Criminal Appeals of Texas - Linda Carty v. The State of Texas. (Contains a description of the events of May 16, 2001.)

can somebody please sort this. Thanks" —Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.153.107.199 (talk • contribs)

Clemency
This article is inaccurate in that it states "[o]nly the governor of Texas and the United States Supreme Court have the legal authority to grant a reprieve to Carty" and "her last hope of not facing execution is to be granted clemency by Governor of Texas Rick Perry." This gives the article a rather biased point of view as it seems to have been generated from an emotional appeal (either against capital punishment in general or in particular for Carty), rather than being generated by investigative motive.

From the article on Capital punishment in Texas, "[t]he only unilateral action which the Governor can take is to grant a one-time, 30-day reprieve to the defendant." Only the Texas Board of Pardons and Paroles (and the US Supreme Court) may grant her a permanent reprieve.

Consorti (talk) 12:00, 8 September 2010 (UTC)

JForget 23:43, 31 July 2010 (UTC)


 * It needs to be made clearer in the article that the governor is only allowed to accept/reject the recommendation of the Board of Pardons and Paroles. If the board recommends clemency, the governor can either reject or accept this.  If they do not recommend clemency, then he has no say in the matter.  The way the article reads right now implies that it is purely up to the governor http://www.tdcj.state.tx.us/bpp/exec_clem/exec_clem.html 87.112.31.134 (talk) 15:54, 29 December 2010 (UTC)

Rearranged some sentences
Oddly, the section called "The Crime" contained no details of the crime at all. However, the "aftermath" section had a paragraph detailing the events. I have moved this to the "crime" section as this seems more appropriate 87.113.140.107 (talk) 03:37, 24 September 2010 (UTC)

Section detailing the trial
I think it would be useful to have a section summarizing the trial. There are references throughtout the article referring to the behaviour of Carty's attorneys during the trial, Carty's assertion that she was framed, evidence of her co-defendants, witnesses not being called, etc which could all be grouped in one place. It also seems strange to have an article on someone appealing against a conviction where there is no section on the actual trial that led to her conviction. 87.113.176.168 (talk) 22:31, 25 September 2010 (UTC)


 * Here is a summary of the prosecution case presented during the trial, in case anyone wants to incorporate it (from http://www.cca.courts.state.tx.us/opinions/HTMLopinionInfo.asp?OpinionID=12448):
 * 87.114.83.169 (talk) 17:39, 14 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Please don't copy and paste from websites to Wikipedia, it causes copyright issues. A link to the site is sufficient Racklever (talk) 18:27, 14 January 2011 (UTC)


 * Just to clarify, there is no copyright issue as the text was copied from a section of an offical US court document (a public record) . WP:Public_domain indicates that "...court opinions of any court case are in the public domain".  The reason I pasted the information was that the much of the original document focused on the appeal and not the original trial.  Also, the formating of the document leaves a lot to be desired (no section heading, no highlighting), so identifying the relevent text is not immediately apparant.  The only concern I had when adding the text was that it was large compared to other sections on the talk page. Regardless, if anyone wants to include a section on the trial, I'll let them find the information on their own. 87.114.83.169 (talk) 02:51, 15 January 2011 (UTC)


 * Done. Trial section added, detailing the evidence presented 87.112.205.38 (talk) 14:20, 17 December 2011 (UTC)

Reverted latest edits by User:Mackworth-Praed to 15 Nov 2010 version
I have just reverted a number of edits made on 8th Dec by this user as I feel they violate WP:NOTSOAPBOX. They included POV, unsourced, unattributed quotes referring to Carty as:


 * "always willing to help people"
 * "a very active worker in her community"
 * "courageous, religious, community orientated and a highly credible primary school teacher"
 * etc.

For these qoutes to be in the article, at the very least they need to be attributed to someone and referenced using WP:RS. Even with references, I'm not sure they are relevant/notable unless the person quoted is notable.

I also removed a paragraph added on 8th Dec that starts "It is argued that Linda Carty did not have a fair trial, because ...". Again, this is unsourced, unattributed and already mentioned in the appeals section.

I feel the material removed should not be re-added unless notability, NPOV and RS is established. 91.125.131.98 (talk) 15:28, 18 December 2010 (UTC)

Accuracy of Guardian piece espec. regarding Carty as DEA informer
The appendix to her appeal summarizes the original trial and gives some background to Carty (http://www.reprieve.org.uk/static/downloads/Carty_-_Cert_Petition_Appendices_2.pdf). It states:


 * ..in 1992, Carty was arrested for auto theft when she rented a car that she never paid for or returned. To rent the car, Carty identified herself as an FBI agent, so the FBI also investigated her for impersonating an officer.  Carty pleaded guilty and was placed on a ten-year term of probation (she was still on probation when arrested for murdering Rodriguez).  The state agreed to dismiss the auto theft charge if Carty would act as an informant.  Although she provided information leading to two arrests, her supervising officer concluded that she was an uncontrollable informant.  Her services came to an end when she was arrested on drug charges.  Police offices had been observing a large drug transaction when Carty entered the house under observation with a package.  When she left, the police followed her.  She led them on a high-speed chase.  During the chase, Carty attempted to run over an officer.  The police eventually recovered two pistols, $3,900 in cash, and fifty pounds of marijuana from her car.

However, the Guardian piece (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2004/jul/26/usa.law) claims this:


 * Twenty years previously, Carty had been recruited as a confidential informant by the Drug Enforcement Administration (DEA) in Houston. "Houston was being bombarded by Jamaican drug dealers at the time and the DEA needed someone of Caribbean background to work for them that no one would suspect," she explains. "A friend of mine at the Houston Police Department got me the job. It was interesting work and low-key for me but I had to take on the life of a drug dealer." At the same time she studied pharmacology at the University of Houston, and later worked part-time as a hairdresser.


 * Her work for the DEA helped land seizures of thousands of dollars' worth of narcotics and saw the imprisonment of scores of dealers. Stafford Smith believes that her work may have helped convict someone who Robinson, Anderson and Williams had been working for. "My lawyers believe these three men may have been drug 'burros' or mules," she says. "It was too difficult just to kill me, so they hatched this plot."

Now, I see some pretty big factual discrepancies between the information from the court and the claims made by Carty in her media interviews (i.e. how she first became an informant, how many people were imprisoned due to her, etc).

Many of the refences for this wikipedia article are links to interviews with Carty in British papers (Guardian, Telegraph, Times, etc). My concern is that although these papers are clearly WP:RS, the factual accuracy of the claims made is questionable. I'm not sure how to proceed with this, but it would look like several papers are reporting Carty's claims as fact when they appear to be in conflict with the facts of the case 91.125.131.98 (talk) 21:02, 18 December 2010 (UTC)


 * I agree that the claims made by Carty in the media seem to contradict known facts - in the example you detail above, the claims of auto theft would appear to be true. According to http://www.texastribune.org/library/data/texas-prisons/inmates/linda-carty/28242/, she was convicted on 31 Aug 1992 and sentenced to 10 years probation 87.114.236.3 (talk) 18:32, 5 February 2011 (UTC)


 * I have added a section entitled "Drug informant" and included both the information from the appeal document and Carty's claims published in the media. 46.208.31.51 (talk) 07:57, 14 December 2011 (UTC)

I have found more reliable reference by looking at news articles in US papers that were published at the time of the crime and trial (2001-2002). Searching site:chron.com in google gives articles printed by the Houston Chronicle at the time of the crime and subsequent trial. I have added a number to the article. 87.114.102.136 (talk) 22:42, 31 December 2011 (UTC)

Physical Evidence
Some relevant evidence against her seems to have been omitted.

1. The victim's body was found in the trunk of a car in Carty's possession on the day of the murder. She had asked her daughter to rent the vehicle for her a few days before the murder. 2. The baby was found in Linda Carty's apartment. Given that the motive put forward by the prosecution was that Carty wanted to abduct the baby this seems very relevant.

Other evidence: 1. Phone records show Carty called the killers several times around the time of the abduction and murder. 2. She had claimed to be pregnant in the months leading up to the murder and on the day of the murder, told her boyfriend and boss she had just given birth.

I think it's relevant not just because of how suspicious and damning it looks, but also because it's totally independent of accomplice testimony. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.151.121.233 (talk) 18:23, 30 March 2011 (UTC)

Propaganda point: "first black British woman executed in a century"
The crime for which this biography subject has been convicted occurred outside United Kingdom territory, and of course if she is executed, it will not be the British who do it. Therefore, the point that she would be the first black British woman executed in a century is irrelevant to a Wikipedia account of her case. The only reason why her champions mention it is to grab public attention. This is doubly so for the mention of her race. Her race can have no genuine interest or relevance because it is not her country that is punishing her, and because there is no correlation in historical sociology or historical politology between the circumstances that led her to her predicament and the lives of black women British subjects back in the times when black women British subjects were executed. And as a matter of fact, it is virtually certain that very few of the British subjects ever executed were women of African descent. Totally propagandistic. If we imagine that magically, the UK were to eliminate crashes of buses, ferries, and trains, or at least eliminate that fatalities ensued from the crashes, then when a Briton were to die in a bus plunge abroad, it would be of only trivial relevance that "this was the first Briton to die in a public conveyance accident since year XXXX". Granted, the UK government is concerned with the welfare of its subjects abroad. And "the first Briton to climb Mount Everest since year YYYY" would be of interest to British mountain climbers. Beyond that, the mere nationality of a Briton who does this or experiences that abroad is a triviality. Hurmata (talk) 06:46, 30 September 2011 (UTC)
 * "first black British woman executed in a century" is a term used in the British press - example[]. It establishes notability and shows why she meets WP:GNG 31.185.45.184 (talk) 00:15, 3 October 2011 (UTC)

Untitled
User Mackworth-Praed is a fruitcake. Like many people she repeats claims about Carty that have absolutely no basis in fact, like the claim there was no forensic evidence against her, again see the interview below. The appellate judgments about Carty can be found here:

http://www.infotextmanuscripts.org/other_carty_by_us_court.html

Carty and Corona were never married, so he should be referred to as her (former) common law husband. For other information, see

http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/319698

and links within.

Jerry Guerinot
This defense lawyer should be hashed out with some digging. I just read a few articles on him and he definitely deserves more attention, as either his own article or a section on this page.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/18/us/18bar.html

This article - written by a law graduate no less - simply parrots the lies of Carty's amen corner. See in particular: http://www.infotextmanuscripts.org/carty_ny_times_letter.html

and

http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/319698 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.184.139.174 (talk) 16:16, 25 November 2012 (UTC)

External links modified
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 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20121128211311/http://press.discovery.com/us/id/programs/on-death-row/ to http://press.discovery.com/us/id/programs/on-death-row/
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20120204223500/http://www.tdcj.state.tx.us/stat/dr_info/cartylinda.html to http://www.tdcj.state.tx.us/stat/dr_info/cartylinda.html
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110821022917/http://www.texastribune.org/library/data/texas-prisons/inmates/linda-carty/28242/ to http://www.texastribune.org/library/data/texas-prisons/inmates/linda-carty/28242/
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20111201101310/http://www.reprieve.org.uk/static/downloads/Carty_-_Cert_Petition_Appendices_2.pdf to http://www.reprieve.org.uk/static/downloads/Carty_-_Cert_Petition_Appendices_2.pdf
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20100714115733/http://www.reprieve.org.uk/static/downloads/2009_05_04_Carty_UK_Govt_Amicus_Brief_.pdf to http://www.reprieve.org.uk/static/downloads/2009_05_04_Carty_UK_Govt_Amicus_Brief_.pdf

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