Talk:Lindbergh kidnapping/Archive 2

Blood libel
Given that Lindbergh is commonly thought to have been anti-semitic, isn't it possible that he interpreted the kidnapping as a form of medieval blood libel ? Was he already anti-semitic by the time of the kidnapping, or did he become even more anti-Jewish after the crime occured ? ADM (talk) 12:27, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

There is no concrete evidence to suggest that Charles Lindbergh was anti-Semitic during the time of his son's kidnapping. He and his wife were friends with, among others, the (Jewish) Guggenheims, and while they moved in wealthy and elite circles there's nothing in their conduct to suggest that they were anti-Jewish.

Later on, Lindbgergh, an admirer of German air power, visited Nazi Germany, praised the Luftwaffe and accepted a medal from Herman Goering. Starting in 1939 he became a vigorous isolationist and was vocal in his criticism of American Jews who supported America's getting involved in the European war. A stubborn, opinionated man, he never apologized for his actions during that period, and he later served his country bravely as a flier in the Pacific theater.

A complex man by any standards, Lindbergh doubtless had his prejudices and fixed beliefs, however from having studied him and his life my sense of him is that while deeply flawed in many respects he was not a hateful man.

John B. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Telegonus (talk • contribs) 09:20, 3 June 2012 (UTC)

Copyright
I find the writing style and language of this article (e.g. cahoots, equivocal, doldrums) unusual for modern English. Would not be surprised if much of it has been lifted from a book or similar 78.53.230.193 (talk) 14:55, 3 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Which book? The words are not antiquated, and there are still living people who talk and write that way. Perhaps the article was written by an older person. Your own grammar leaves something to be desired. --Bluejay Young (talk) 17:25, 17 July 2011 (UTC)

Dwight Morrow
Ambiguous link to Dwight Morrow in the 'See Also' section. can someone please explain why there is a link to Dwight Morrow who died 2 years before the Lindbergh kidnapping occurred ? when you visit the link there seems to be no correlation between the two pages. this issue isnt confined to this page. is it usual practice to link unrelated information ? chris mcmullen. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.173.12.147 (talk) 04:08, 4 December 2009 (UTC)


 * There is indeed a connection and a very strong one at that. As the Dwight Morrow article details, he is the father of Anne Morrow Lindbergh.  Anne Morrow Lindbergh was the wife of Charles Lindbergh and the mother of the kidnapped Lindbergh baby.  In other words, Dwight Morrow was the kidnapped baby's maternal grandfather.  This is the reason that the article is listed in the "See also" section.  Thanks.   (64.252.68.102 (talk) 18:03, 1 March 2010 (UTC))


 * Also, he died 5 months before the kidnapping, not 2 years before. This may be a significant factor in the kidnapping. Akld guy (talk) 22:03, 24 October 2015 (UTC)

Objectivity
The problem with this article is there are so many contradictory things that need to be included. For instance, the family doctor at first denied the baby was the Lindbergh baby, then he later said it was, then denied it again. So if you're going to source it you can easily pick and find a credible source depending on which date you use. Same for anything Jafsie said. He constantly switched sides about whether or not anything was true. He clearly wanted attention and would say whatever to get it. But this article is definately slanted. All the evidence brought against Bruno could've just as easily been planted by cops desperate to make a conviction. I'm not saying it was, but if you're gonna write an article don't include something as fact without explaining WHY it is fact and also presenting the rebuttle of the evidence. For every piece of evidence against Bruno there are at least two way if not a lot more, of explaining it away. The only thing for certain is that Bruno is guilty of having ransom money 99.17.104.162 (talk) 03:09, 8 January 2010 (UTC)Vera Lynne
 * Agreed, and you could fix it yourself, but all the contradictory evidence has to be properly researched and cited. --Bluejay Young (talk) 17:28, 17 July 2011 (UTC)

Man claiming to be Charles A. Lindbergh
I just thought I'd throw this out there. I don't know if it can be incorporated into the article, but I thought it was interesting. http://www.insidebayarea.com/ci_14383573?source=most_viewed Bill the Cat 7 (talk) 19:02, 13 February 2010 (UTC)


 * That link wrought some minor havoc with my PC. In any case, I recall a People Magazine article some years ago about a guy claiming to be the Lindbergh baby. Don't recall his name. However, the Lindbergh baby's body was found in a shallow grave not far from the Lindbergh home not long after the crime, and typically these guys won't submit to DNA tests since it would prove that they're humbugs. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 19:08, 13 February 2010 (UTC)

Theory
I personally don't support this, but I've heard it said that the baby was dropped on its head and killed when he was kidnapped, which is supposedly supported by the body being found close to the home and the depressions outside the windows. Is this at least theorized, or just nonsense? --75.173.18.129 (talk) 18:28, 18 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Oh, the person I heard it from (my father) saw me typing and said that the perpetrators (plural) confessed about it when they were in jail, and said to look it up on Wikipedia. :S --75.173.18.129 (talk) 18:36, 18 April 2010 (UTC)
 * I too thought about this. The article mentions nothing about how or why the baby was killed. There have to have been theories at least...--Threedots dead (talk) 18:15, 25 April 2010 (UTC)

J. J. Faulkner
This article contains many flat that contradict well-established sources. In such a case, there really is a need for citation. For example, in regard to the large deposit of ransom Gold Certificates, the FBI's website states "One was found bearing the name and address of "J.J. Faulkner, 537 West 149th Street," and had marked thereon "gold certificates," "$10 and $20" in the amount of $2,980. Despite extensive investigation, this depositor was never located."(http://www.fbi.gov/libref/historic/famcases/lindber/lindbernew.htm)

Now surely, one can challenge the accuracy of the FBI's claims but one should cite the evidence, not simply assert a differing view. --Rrawson (talk) 21:52, 12 May 2010 (UTC)RBR

thats exactly what i was thinking when i was reading all of this. it makes sense. stole the baby, dropped it doing down the ladder, got nervous, threw the baby in a ditch as they were leaving.. and pretended that the baby was still alive. makes sense to me. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.99.12.41 (talk) 07:34, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

Proceeding
I think the article would be improved immeasurably if additional constructions of the form, Person X then proceeded to do such-and-such were sprinkled throughout. EEng (talk) 02:45, 31 July 2010 (UTC)

The page was recently vandalized
I have been using this page over the last few weeks, and some of the information was recently changed. In one section, it says that the child was raped when he wasn't. John Condon's name was also changed in one section. I don't know enough about this topic to correct it myself, but if someone does, please do so. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dfbullington (talk • contribs) 20:46, 17 March 2011 (UTC)
 * It should be fixed, let me know if I missed anything. Monty 845 (talk) 20:55, 17 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Under the "Wanted" poster where the date of birth, death, etc. is listed, his cause of death says "raped to death". Bettybrown922 (talk) 05:01, 22 March 2012 (UTC)


 * John Condon's name in the title of the section is still given as "John Condom." Like OP, I don't know anything about the topic and don't want to correct it myself, but it seems that is probably wrong. Bob the ducq (talk) 18:25, 25 March 2015 (UTC)

Lindbergh kidnapping in film
The Lindbergh kidnapping was also the basis for the kidnapping depicted in "Raising Arizona," a film by the Coen brothers.

Cheers, 24.196.131.146 (talk) 05:31, 3 August 2011 (UTC)Kristy, 8/3/2011

Another "In TV".
In an episode of "JAG", Harmon Rabb asks a sarcastic rhetorical question: "are they re-opening the Lindburgh kidnapping case?". Old_Wombat (talk) 09:28, 27 October 2011 (UTC)

Ransom note image
There is a color image of the ransom note on this page and it appears to be authentic given this FBI page. Is there any reason why we can't include this image in this article? Is it a copyright issue? --beefyt (talk) 03:19, 28 July 2012 (UTC)

John F. Condon
I'm thinking that the article on John F. Condon is a match for the one mentioned in this article - from news searches we can see that both men taught/coached at Fordham. – Connormah (talk) 20:20, 28 July 2012 (UTC)

Lindbergh claimed...
The second sentence says, "Lindbergh claimed his 20-month-old toddler was abducted from his family home...on the evening of March 1, 1932." As far as I can see, there is nothing in the article to refute this "claim". It seems to be an established fact. It should simply say "The 20-month-old toddler was abducted from the Lindbergh family home..." 86.41.46.253 (talk) 23:23, 23 September 2012 (UTC)


 * You're absolutely right. I made the edit.&mdash; alf laylah wa laylah (talk) 23:46, 27 September 2012 (UTC)


 * Who knows. They could have lied. Science methods were not precise long ago. No possible to check. They could say whatewer they wanted.

Some researchers suggest Lindberg to be in charge himself or smb from the family. That could be unintentional murder. There also were rumours about baby's health - thay say the child was retarded physically. That's why founded body were not similar to Charlie's. The height of found body didn't match with one declared on the wanted poster. That's why nobody knows for sure if the body was Charlie's and even if it was, nobody knows whodunit and why. I don't buy Bruno-the-killer. I buy poor qualified work of police which kissed the a** of Mr. Linberg and let him make decisions instead of them. His "investigation" screwed up and so did their. All they could do is to electrocute the innocent and make the poor maid to commite suicide. What a brave officers! The family covered their son health issues. Have you heard the Lindberg's words of "healthy and strong genes"? That kind of person could feel ashamed of ill child. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 37.16.82.32 (talk) 14:13, 26 October 2013 (UTC)

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 23 August 2021 and 3 December 2021. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Hannah.Line.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 02:37, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

The possibility that Lindbergh did it himself
Anyone who educates the public about the Lindbergh kidnapping needs to accept a new reality: that the theory that Charles Lindbergh killed his OWN son can no longer be dismissed and ignored if we want to do the case justice.

It sounds like an absurd conspiracy theory, but while the “conspiracy theory” part is true, the “absurd” part is not. The theory that this random German immigrant carpenter who lived 50 miles away pulled off the “Crime of the Century” all by himself, is really ten times more absurd than the theory that the case would be more accurately called “the Lindbergh filicide” than “the Lindbergh kidnapping”.

Most conspiracy theories are false, but some are not, and I’m convinced this is one of the true ones.

It’s not so far-fetched when you consider that 90% of infanticides from the home were committed by one or both of the parents (or guardians). And that no one else could’ve known all the details of the house, its location, and its occupants’ schedules to be able to pull off the crime. And that Charles Lindbergh is already known to have been a devout eugenicist and Nazi sympathizer who had no qualms about lying to everyone (see the story of his 7 secret children in Germany) and who had a sadistic sense of “humor” that could turn horrifying. And that the Lindbergh baby was unhealthy - terrible news for a eugenicist. And that the investigation got diverted because they allowed Lindbergh himself to be the director of the whole thing. (so stupid!)

I must stop there because I don’t have time to relate all the other 10,000 pieces of evidence that point to Charles Lindbergh himself.

But suffice it to say, you don’t morally have the right to tell me that I’m an idiot or a crackpot unless you’ve already read through………

Ms. Lise Pearlman’s recent book on the subject, the 1980’s book where the authors diagnosed it as a prank gone wrong covered up by a fabricated “kidnapping” [my only disagreement with them is that I don’t buy the idea that the crime was ever an accident], and a long list of other materials on the subject.

If you take the time to learn all the facts of the case and consider them objectively, then you’ll realize that “Lindbergh did it himself” is really a very plausible explanation.

In my opinion, it’s also the MOST likely explanation, and the correct explanation.

But even if you don’t become as convinced as I have, there’s still no denying that “Lindbergh did it” is a real possibility.

Anyway, when it comes to this Wikipedia article, I propose that we add a subsection in the “alternative theories” section that’s dedicated to the case for Lindbergh’s guilt. Not overtly endorsing that argument, but just giving it the consideration and discussion that it deserves.

I also propose that we mention this possibility to the introduction section of the article as well. The introduction should not make it out like it was definitely a legitimate kidnapping (regardless of whether they say Hauptmann did it), when there’s also a good case to be made that the crime was really filicide, with the “kidnapping” aspects being the ruse that Charles Lindbergh staged on the whole world.

All the sources I mentioned above - that’s what we could use as the sources for the new additions to the article that I have proposed.

Seriously…… listen to an interview with Ms. Lise Pearlman on the subject, along with a few other YouTube videos about the case, before you conclude that this is a loony crackpot theory.

(……which is what ONE editor to this article told me it is. But he must not know the case very well!)

Thegoldenconciseencyclopediaofmammals (talk) 03:01, 10 July 2023 (UTC)


 * This is all speculation and original research. If you have reliable sources, specific, then publish them. But speculative research - with no direct sourcing - isn't up to snuff for an encyclopedia. cheers. anastrophe, an editor he is. 03:18, 10 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Lisa Pearlman self published a 13-hour audio tape in which she presents her theories. No reputable publisher was involved. So this fails the most basic tests of a reliable source.  see her tape for sale on Amazon Amazon says its sales rank #127,319 in Audible Books & Originals. Rjensen (talk) 01:22, 12 August 2023 (UTC)
 * I completely agree—Charles Lindbergh killed his own son (possibly accidentally), and then fabricated a story about the child being abducted for ransom. See the YouTube video: “Bad Things: True Crime What most likely happened to the Lindbergh baby”, where they discuss this possibility very effectively. Plus, Lindbergh was Jew-hating Nazi!!! Faybyshe (talk) 06:48, 11 November 2023 (UTC)