Talk:Line 6 Finch West/Archive 1

Image Issues
Hey folks. Anyone with Inkscape/SVG expertise? I'm having issues with File:TTC - FW.svg and would appreciate some help. I think its something to do with converting text to path? ? -- Natural  R X 22:46, 4 December 2015 (UTC)

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Line 6 Finch West?
According to the TTC's official Twitter feed, it has designated this line as Line 6 Finch West.

I am asking for consensus, especially given WP:Twitter-EL. Johnny Au (talk/contributions) 01:31, 24 April 2017 (UTC)


 * Personally, I like to call things by the names people are used to calling them, not what some pointy-headed bureaucrat, or financier, wants us to call them. I still call the big stadium, the SkyDome, even though every news report calls it the Roger's Centre.  The wikipedia has so many policies, guidelines, and essays that have proponents who want to treat their favourite essay as if it were a policy.  Sometimes these wikidocuments are contradictory, or vague, or both...  But, aren't there wikidocuments out there which say we should lean to calling articles on topics by how they are generally known, even if that isn't the topics "official name"?  Personally, I think it was a mistake to go along with the bureaucrats who want riders to learn brand new names for their much used rapid transit lines.  This weekend the TTC's P.A. system kept announcing that "Line 3" was down for preventative maintenance.  Well who the heck knows what "line 3" is.
 * There is an apocryphal story about how a "little old lady", who had to live through an official decision to change the labeling of food, and the measurements of distances, from the old, traditional, English, imperial measures, of pounds, ounces, feet, inches, etc., to the modern, logical SI units of grams, meters, etc. The cheery young person assured her that (1) she would be happy; because (2) with the SI system there would be far fewer things to memorize, and those few things were logical, and easy to remember.  She vigorously disputed this claim, pointing out that, with a shift to SI, she would have to memorize even harder constants, like that there were 2.2 pounds to a kilogram, and 2 and a fraction centimeters to an inch.  The very strong advantage of calling the LRT that runs along Finch the Finch West LRT, is that the name very clearly says what it is.  Whereas the TTC's plan that we refer to the routes by a number, is confusing.  It is confusing to the TTC's riders.  And, more importantly for us, it is confusing to the wikipedia's readers.  So, I say, "just say no".  Geo Swan (talk) 02:07, 24 April 2017 (UTC)
 * I agree with the above, that the name should remain. I do want to point out that, further down in that Twitter discussion, the line colour is confirmed as grey; so a '6' symbol in a grey circle would be appropriate to put together. Radagast (talk) 02:38, 24 April 2017 (UTC)
 * I'm fine with adding something that is consistent with the other subway lines (such as Line 5 Eglinton and Line 3 Scarborough) once there's something official on paper - such as a TTC Board report, or a good media report (which might come soon, given the Toronto media's ability to turn a tweet into a news story). Though perhaps one should also wait until construction begins, given the project is still at some risk, given the current holding pattern on the RFP. Mind you, it does have the same opening year (2021) as Eglinton, for which we (and TTC) have been using Line 5 for a long time - though it will likely slip given the holding pattern. And then in London, they can't even agree to name an article the Elizabeth line despite very clear announcements from TFL about what it's name is to be, preferring to stick with Crossrail which is more the name of the construction project, than the transit line. Nfitz (talk) 03:53, 24 April 2017 (UTC)
 * Another thought reading User:Geo Swan's comment. It would be Line 6 Finch, not just Line 6. TTC doesn't call the SRT "Line 3". Their webpage clearly says "3 Scarborough Line". You can see similar for all 4 current subway lines - http://www.ttc.ca/Subway/index.jsp. Nfitz (talk) 04:14, 24 April 2017 (UTC)
 * Last weekend's announcements over the public address speakers, in the stations, simply said "line 3" -- no Scarborough. Geo Swan (talk) 11:56, 24 April 2017 (UTC)
 * Live or recorded? Personally I wasn't on the subway - but spent a lot of time on 504/506 this weekend. Certainly their twitter notices included Scarborough or SRT at times, depending on space; and the signage and website had both. They should include on the audio. Unless it's a deliberate attempt to keep the message short and clear - it's probably easier to pick out a short number than a word, given the noise issues. Though as time advanced, and the number of lines grow, the usage of just the number is likely to grow. Nfitz (talk) 21:50, 24 April 2017 (UTC)
 * I'd still like to see something more official, personally. It'd help if they built the damn thing and had some official documents, but...you know, not appropriate to get into that here. -- Natural  R X 14:03, 24 April 2017 (UTC)
 * There is a construction webpage now. I'm not sure if that's reflected in the article. Though I doubt there'd be any references in there - though something might pop up in the renderings showing signage. Really it's TTC that will lead on the numbering. I don't see any reason though that a Line 6 Finch West redirect can't be created. Unfortunately there seems to be a Line 7 Finch West LRT, which both has the wrong number (now) and has LRT on the line name, which isn't consistent with the other lines. Interestingly TTC Design Twitter has now dropped that the Downtown line will be Line 3. Which implies that the current Relief Line (Toronto) is very pooly named, and if plans hold, would ultimately be Line 3 Downtown following out other nomenclature. Though I don't think we should be renaming that now either. Nfitz (talk) 21:50, 24 April 2017 (UTC)

Requested move 28 January 2018

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the move request was: Moved. (non-admin closure) –Ammarpad (talk) 00:41, 5 February 2018 (UTC)

Finch West LRT → Line 6 Finch West – There seemed to be some support here in April for renaming the page to be more consistent with the other subway lines once there was some official documentation. In the 2018-2022 TTC Corporate Plan, the line is refered to on page 9 as "Line 6 Finch West" right next to the similar "Line 5 Eglinton". Later on page 43, the map shows the line's symbol being a white '6' in a grey bullet. It also implicitly states that the name is NOT subject to change (unlike some of the other lines which are denoted by an asterisk). BLAIXX 23:20, 28 January 2018 (UTC)

Survey

 * Feel free to state your position on the renaming proposal by beginning a new line in this section with  or  , then sign your comment with  . Since polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account Wikipedia's policy on article titles.


 * Support – didn't realize they were so advanced on that. Strange they're not just calling it "Line 6 Finch" given there's no "Finch East". I mean if it were only going west from Finch West station, that might make more sense. Weird also that they are considering reusing Line 3 for the Relief Line. But as for Line 6, it's hard to argue with the source. —Joeyconnick (talk) 01:41, 29 January 2018 (UTC)
 * I think it's named after the street. Finch Avenue West starts west of Yonge. The Bus routes are named similarly. -- Natural  R X  18:36, 31 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Support as line numbering and colours are now in an official TTC document, citing approval by city council. -- Natural  R X  18:34, 31 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Support Perfectly sound rationale and we have an official source. Radagast (talk) 02:04, 1 February 2018 (UTC)

Discussion

 * Any additional comments:


 * do we want to morph this into a multi-page move discussion, and encompass Sheppard East and Jane LRTs? -- Natural  R X  18:38, 31 January 2018 (UTC)
 * I don't think those articles should be moved at this time. While Finch West is set to begin construction this year, Sheppard East and Jane are both unfunded projects scheduled to open beyond 10 years from now whose names are subject to change. I think they're better off at their current generic names (which is how they're referred to by Metrolinx) until construction is imminent. –BL<b style="color: #0096FF">A</b><b style="color: black">IXX</b> 19:05, 31 January 2018 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Proposal #1
I found a set of five maps from 2016 showing the location of platforms and crossovers along the surface section of the line. (The maps are at the "Project Documents" section on the Metrolinx project page.) Using the maps, I could create stub articles, similar to the Ionview stop article, for each of the 16 on-street stops for Line 6. The articles will be based mostly on the maps as, unlike for the Crosstown, Metrolinx did not provide any articles by stop that translate the maps into words. Since I lack a source for "surface connections", I would omit this section for the time being. Are there any objections to continuing? Please comment. TheTrolleyPole (talk) 22:07, 26 February 2022 (UTC)
 * I personally feel that stop articles are probably not notable at the moment - given the lack of information and detail on them at present. Closer to the time of opening - when said surface connections info is available as well as other references/photos - would be a better time imo. There's not much more available about each stop that's not already in the Line 6 Finch West article - I guess you could add coordinate references to the table as an interim measure. Interesting to note what other countries / articles do - in the French lang. wikipedia Parisian tram stops are integrated into location articles, rather than having standalone stubs. Turini2 (talk) 23:33, 26 February 2022 (UTC)
 * Instead of individual stub articles for each stop, there should be a single article for all stops. Johnny Au (talk/contributions) 01:14, 27 February 2022 (UTC)
 * I've always felt that having stop articles for Line 5 is overkill and each is not really notable enough on its own. I would say either include as a section of Line 6 or, at most, as Johnny's mentioned, do a single article for all of them. Maybe to start do as a part of the Line 6 article and then, if warranted later, it could be split into its own article? —Joeyconnick (talk) 02:32, 27 February 2022 (UTC)
 * I agree with this. Once there's too much information to fit in this article, a List of Line 6 Finch West stations article could be the next step. <b style="color: #329604">B</b><b style="color: #FD8F42">L</b><b style="color: #0096FF">A</b>IXX 05:40, 27 February 2022 (UTC)
 * I also agree. It sounds like a good idea. For now, it can be a section in the main Line 6 article and when the article itself gets too large, it can be split off into an article listing the stops and stations. Johnny Au (talk/contributions) 15:59, 27 February 2022 (UTC)

Proposal #2
So, I will add 18 sub-sections under Line 6 Finch West, one for each station and stop, listed from west to east. The two station sub-sections will be a brief summaries linking to the main articles. The 16 stop sub-sections will include any information I can find from Metrolinx and any other sources. After completion, perhaps one could modify template:ttcs to link to the stop sub-sections, in addition to the main articles for the two terminal stations. TheTrolleyPole (talk) 20:12, 27 February 2022 (UTC)
 * Even a subsection seems overkill for most of the stops. Many of them will only be a location and a platform configuration. <b style="color: #329604">B</b><b style="color: #FD8F42">L</b><b style="color: #0096FF">A</b>IXX 21:14, 27 February 2022 (UTC)
 * User:Blaixx: If I were to redo the Birchmount stop example in the proposed style, it would look something like:
 *  Birchmount stop 
 * Birchmount will be an on-street stop located at the intersection of Eglinton Avenue and Birchmount Road in the Ionview neighbourhood. The stop will be located in the middle of Eglinton Avenue on the east side of its intersection with Birchmount Road. The stop will have side platforms which will be accessed from the pedestrian crossing on the east side of the signalized street intersection. On the east side of this stop, there will be two separate crossovers, one trailing point and the other facing point.


 * For Line 6 stops, I would document nearby infrastructure such as crossovers and the Highway 400 underpass that required widening. For Rowntree Mills, I would mention that the intersection and stop sits on a bridge over the Humber River, etc. Later, when the information becomes available, there would be a table listing bus routes serving the stop. By then I feel that using sub-section titles as dividers would be desirable. Without the sub-sections, one cannot use Template:ttcs for linking. Is the issue simply that you just to eliminate the sub-section dividers? TheTrolleyPole (talk) 22:25, 27 February 2022 (UTC)
 * Template:ttcs has been superseded by Template:stl. Johnny Au (talk/contributions) 00:34, 27 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Oppose I think that would be overkill. Information like the crossovers is not notable (other than in a diagram like in Line 1 Yonge-University and rebuilding of the Highway 400 underpass already is in the history section. Repeating "The stop will have side platforms" etc over and over will clutter the article. I think what is currently in the article - in a clear, easy to read table - is absolutely fine for the moment. As stated, wait until closer to opening for when surface connections and other info is available. Turini2 (talk) 12:48, 28 February 2022 (UTC)

Proposal #3
Abandoning the first two proposals, I will add a platform column to the existing stop table, create a route description section similar to the first paragraph in 505 Dundas and mention intermediate turnback points (crossovers) in Line 6 Finch West. In the route description, I will refer to stop names only if there is something notable (Rowntree Mills stop located on a bridge over the Humber) or as a reference point (e.g. passing under Highway 400 east of the Signet/Arrow stop). I hope this proposal will be uncontroversial. TheTrolleyPole (talk) 19:11, 28 February 2022 (UTC)
 * Sounds good to me! Thanks. <b style="color: #329604">B</b><b style="color: #FD8F42">L</b><b style="color: #0096FF">A</b>IXX 02:38, 1 March 2022 (UTC)
 * Agreed. Proposal #3 would be best for me. I would like to see the results. Johnny Au (talk/contributions) 14:55, 1 March 2022 (UTC)

Bus connections
The TTC has issued a PDF showing the proposed bus routes connecting to Line 6 once it opens. There is also a more convenient copy of its bus route map. Assuming we want to document bus connections for Line 6 by stop, we could do one of the following:
 * 1) Add a column to the Line 6 Finch West table for connection similar to Hurontario LRT. The number and name for each route would show but not the destination(s) for each bus route.
 * 2) Create a separate table in the article similar to that in Finch West station but with an additional column added for the stop name. This table would show bus route destinations plus any other details about the route.

Is there a preference for listing bus connections to Line 6? TheTrolleyPole (talk) 23:22, 26 October 2022 (UTC)
 * It would be great if we can do the same for Line 5 Eglinton regardless of the result, especially given that Line 5 also runs on the surface and there are surface connections with the line without the need to go to the individual station articles. There's also a PDF for the new bus connections upon Line 5's opening. Johnny Au (talk/contributions) 00:27, 27 October 2022 (UTC)
 * It looks like there are about 30 bus routes with connect with one or more stops on the line. I think that would lead to a massive option 2 style table so I am leaning toward option 1. <b style="color: #329604">B</b><b style="color: #FD8F42">L</b><b style="color: #0096FF">A</b>IXX 02:19, 27 October 2022 (UTC)
 * I must agree. Option 2 would be unwieldy, so I go with Option 1. Johnny Au (talk/contributions) 00:04, 1 November 2022 (UTC)

thought we had clarified that LRT stops don't warrant separate articles
I see that has started creating articles for this line's stops. Pretty sure we've discussed that surface-level stops with minimal infrastructure don't warrant their own separate articles and aren't notable in and of themselves. —Joeyconnick (talk) 19:54, 12 January 2023 (UTC)