Talk:Lion (Australasian company)

2004-2007
A lot of the Victorian stuff is covered under Melbourne Beer War, and can probably be deleted. Could be useful adding some information about the companies and beers

3mta3 09:58, 22 Dec 2004 (UTC)

My understanding is that Tooheys New on tap was always Tooheys New, and it was only the can and bottle form that was changed from Tooheys Draught to Tooheys New.

Just removed a massive amount of blantant advertising, nearly made me sick. Please stay away Lion Nathan PR Reps.

ElZilcho

Looks all right to me now... maybe we can remove the advertising warning 203.129.45.248 08:24, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

Brewing vs Distribution
Just removed incorrect information regarding international brands - Heineken, Amstel and Tiger are all DB products - refer http://www.db.co.nz/home/brands.html

While in New Zealand Heneken is a DB brand, in Australia it is a Lion beer. 202.27.252.25 (talk) 23:40, 8 October 2007 (UTC)

The two comments directly above are true. The whole section within the article is deceptively confusing though. The fact that the international brands list is under the New Zealand brands list (even though it is a separate heading) leads the reader to believe that these are international brands being sold in New Zealand by Lion Nathan. Maybe this section could be expanded upon to explain that Amstel, Heineken, and Tiger are brewed under licence in Australia, but are imported and distributed from elsewhere by DB breweries in New Zealand. This may require information about where DB sources these beers from. Not sure where this might be found - On the outside of the bottles maybe? Time to do some research! ;-) --Iam0g (talk) 13:51, 16 August 2009 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Mac's shield.gif
Image:Mac's shield.gif is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use.

BetacommandBot (talk) 07:05, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

Lion Nathan Wines and Wineries
All the winery web site links in the wines section are just blatant advertising. They should be created as separate pages which then have a link to the winery's web site, or at least put under 'external links'. See External_links. The 'international brands' section is a good example of how it should be.


 * "All the winery web site links in the wines section are just blatant advertising." - No, they are not JUST blantant advertising; they are the wineries' "Official Web Sites". Yes, they do contain "advertising". So what? Please show me a web site for a product that doesn't contain some advertising.
 * "They should be created as separate pages which then have a link to the winery's web site," - Yes, I agree, they "should". (What a wonderful word "should" is!) There's just one teensy-weensy problem. They haven't been created yet. (Are you going to do it?)
 * "or at least put under 'external links'." - OK. I've done that.
 * "See External_links." - Been there. Done that.
 * "The 'international brands' section is a good example of how it should be." - Indubitably. But as I've already mentioned, "There's just one teensy-weensy problem ... "
 * Have you got anything to add that's actually useful, helpful, or productive? Or are you just here to whinge about how the world is not perfect? Pdfpdf (talk) 09:01, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

Clearly my 'whinging' is useful as you agree and have fixed it up. Stop whinging about it and get on with it. Garnercx (talk) 01:30, 10 June 2009 (UTC)
 * No, I don't agree. I just did it to remove any grounds you had for whinging.
 * "Stop whinging about it and get on with it." - Huh? Is that an attempt at humour? If so, ;-) Pdfpdf (talk) 14:40, 10 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Oh, by-the-way, please sign your postings with 4~. Pdfpdf (talk) 09:01, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

Sorry, missed that one. Garnercx (talk) 01:30, 10 June 2009 (UTC)

I'm unclear as to which wineries they currently own. There have been news stories about them selling their "premium wine" business to Accolade Wines last month. Has Lion failed to update its website - which still lists many of the wines mentioned in the article - or is the transfer yet to take effect? -- Meticulo (talk) 09:51, 4 December 2016 (UTC)

James Squire merge
What's the deal with this merge? The information on this page is much shorter than was at James Squire. Any reason not to list the full range of beers? This is exactly the kind of information an encyclopaedia should list; it's not spam, if that's what you're thinking. Stevage 00:04, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

Edit by IP, 19 Aug 2009
19 August 2009 210.8.218.110 (talk) (16,525 bytes) (Lion Nathan is not Japanese-controlled. While Kirin is a major shareholder, the company is publicly listed as at 18/8/09. The company has a wide range of assets, no longer makes Tooheys Maxim or Tiger) (undo) (Tag: references removed)

Adressing your edit comment: Addressing your edits: Pdfpdf (talk) 15:32, 19 August 2009 (UTC)
 * "While Kirin is a major shareholder, the company is publicly listed as at 18/8/09." - True. However, as Kirin owns 40-something percent, and no other shareholder owns anything even vaguely close to that proportion, by Australian accounting standards and Australian company law, this means Lion Nathan IS "Japanese controlled". If you want more information, read Adelaide Steamship Company and the supporting references quoted there.
 * There was a reliable supporting reference there. You removed it, and replaced it with your claim, and did NOT supply ANY supporting references for your point-of-view. Not a good idea.
 * gtg - will finish this later. Pdfpdf (talk) 10:33, 19 August 2009 (UTC)
 * "The company has a wide range of assets" - Yes. Why do you mention that?
 * "no longer makes Tooheys Maxim" - A supporting reference would be nice.
 * "(no longer makes) Tiger" - It never did make Tiger, and the article doesn't say that it did/does. However, Lion Nathan is still the distributor of Tiger, both in Australia and New Zealand.
 * "The company owns ten breweries, 9 wineries, 1 distillery, 44 liquor outlets and one contract bottling plant" - this may well be true, but the section is headed "Breweries", not "Assets", or something related, or of a general nature.
 * "The company owns ten breweries, 9 wineries ... "'' - I think the company owns more than that. See below for breweries, and the article mentions 18 wineries manufacturing 13 brands.

How many breweries, what are they called, where are they, and what do they brew?
I identified the following, (then I found List of breweries in Australia.)

If you can, please verify, correct and/or expand this following list.
 * 1. Castlemaine Perkins (Brisbane) - XXXX
 * 2. Swan (Canning Vale, Perth) (WA, not Scotland) - Swan; Emu
 * 3. Southwark (Adelaide) - West End; Southwark
 * 4. Malt Shovel (Camperdown, Sydney) - James Squire; New Norcia Abbey Ale [Same place as Hahn??]
 * 5. Boags (Launceston, Tasmania) - Boags
 * 6. McCashins (Nelson, Sth Is) - McCashins
 * 7. Waitemata (Otahuhu, Auckland?) - Heinekin
 * 8. Tui (Mangatainoka ?) - Tui
 * 9. Monteith's (Greymouth, Sth Is) - Monteith's
 * 10. Mainland (Timaru, Sth Is)
 * 11. Speights (Dunedin, Sth Is) - Speights
 * 12. Newmarket (Auckland) - Lion Red
 * 13. Hahn (Camperdown, Sydney) - Hahn
 * 14. Tooheys (Lidcombe, Sydney) - Tooheys
 * 15. Knappstein Enterprise Brewery (Clare SA) - Knappstein

Where are the following brewed?
 * Gulf Lager
 * Becks ("Brewed here in Australia" - http://www.becksbeer.com.au/ "Bier Facts")
 * Steinlager

http://www.beermaster.co.nz/Links.aspx mentions:
 * http://www.lion-nathan.co.nz
 * http://www.speights.co.nz
 * http://www.guinnessnz.co.nz
 * http://www.macs.co.nz
 * http://www.lionred.co.nz
 * http://www.steinlager.com
 * http://www.stellaartois.com

Pdfpdf (talk) 17:08, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

Japanese take-over
Now that Lion-Nathan has been 100% taken over by the Japanese firm Kirin, should the lede be changed from "Japanese controlled" to "Japanese owned"?- Lester  11:17, 17 September 2009 (UTC)


 * Well, the takeover hasn't actually happened yet: "The takeover will be implemented on October 21, pending court approval." (Lion Nathan shareholders approve takeover, TVNZ, 17 September 2009.)
 * However, the article could be modified to mention this. The National Foods article may also need to be modified.
 * Other reports:
 * Lion Nathan shareholders approve Kirin takeover, The Australian, 17 September 2009
 * Lion Nathan shareholders approve $3 bln takeover by Kirin, Forbes.com, 17 September 2009
 * Shareholders bid sayonara to Lion Nathan, Sydney Morning Herald, 17 September 2009
 * Cheers, Pdfpdf (talk) 13:50, 17 September 2009 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 14 August 2014
I am Lion’s External Relations Director and would like to advise of some amendments required to your description of Lion, as per the below:

1)	Lion is owned by Kirin, which is listed on the Tokyo Stock Exchange. Kirin is not owned by Mitsubishi. Therefore Lion is not owned by Mitsubishi. Mitsubishi has a very small shareholding in Kirin (I believe only 1-2%) only. 2)	Your initial description of Lion suggests we are only an alcohol company. This is false. Lion is a beverage and food company that operates in Australia and New Zealand and produces and markets a range of beer, wine, cider, RTDs, spirits, plain and flavoured milks, yogurts, cheese, juice and soy products. 3)	Your employee numbers are also inaccurate and should be ‘The Company employs over 7,000 people’ 4)	The Industry we operate in should be food and beverage / alcohol, not just alcohol 5)	Under ‘founded’ there should be a reference that we became Lion in 2011 6)	The products section should be amended to include all our product categories: beer, wine, cider, RTDs, spirits, plain and flavoured milks, yogurts, cheese, juice and soy products. 7)	Owner should be Kirin Holdings 8)	The history section is incomplete, and doesn’t reference the subsequent merger of Lion Nathan and National Foods in 2009 as ‘Lion Nathan National Foods’ and the renaming to ‘Lion’ in 2011, as mentioned earlier on the page 9)	The next section on Lion Nathan National Foods is no longer accurate – the name no longer exists. The head office information in there is also confused – our Corporate and Lion Beer, Spirits & Wine Australia head office is York St Sydney, our Lion Dairy & Drinks business is headquartered out of Melbourne and our Lion Beer, Spirits & Wine New Zealand business is headquartered out of Auckland. We have an additional office at Sydney Olympic Park. 10)	The Lion Nathan National Foods Ltd profile box should be deleted as it is superseded by the Lion one. 11)	Breweries – our Swan brewery has closed. Our SA Brewery is called ‘West End Brewery’ not Southwark. You have Little Creatures listed as a brewery in Sydney, when it is based in WA (which you have in brackets). We have another Little Creatures Brewery in Geelong. There is no Hahn Brewery in Camperdown, you have this confused with the Malt Shovel Brewery in Camperdown, which is accurate. We also have the Emerson’s Brewery in Dunedin New Zealand. 12)	There are extensive issues with the beer and wine sections where you list a lot of products no longer produced as well as wine assets long divested. Can I suggest you include a link to the Lion website for information on Lion brands, as the changes required would include a complete overhaul: http://lionco.com/brands/ 15)	We also have an extensive dairy and drinks business that is not referenced here at all. From a site/production perspective this includes; a dairy foods site in Wetherill Park NSW; a milk site in Penrith NSW; two juice sites in Leeton and Smithfield NSW; a cheese cut and wrap site in Allansford VIC; a milk site in Chelsea Heights VIC; a yogurt site in Morwell VIC; a Vitasoy soy site in Wodonga VIC; a milk site in Crestmead QLD and another in Malanda QLD; a milk site in Salisbury SA; a specialty cheese site in Burnie TAS; a milk site in Lenah Valley TAS; our King Island cheese site on King Island TAS; a milk and juice site in Bentley WA; a milk and cheese site in Canberra ACT; and a dairy foods site in Palmerston North NZ.

If you need further information please email me on leela.sutton@lionco.com

Cheers Leela

203.174.133.198 (talk) 04:05, 14 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Padlock-silver-open.svg Not done: The page's protection level and/or your user rights have changed since this request was placed. You should now be able to edit the page yourself. If you still seem to be unable to, please reopen the request with further details. That said, you should take care and read over WP:COI since you have a conflict of interest. -- ferret (talk) 19:33, 22 August 2014 (UTC)

External links modified
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External links modified
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Cleanup of beers and breweries needed
Having just done a fairly major cleanup of the company history, holdings and names (hopefully all sorted now), I have no time nor inclination to look at that long list of breweries and beers. The problem with lists of brands is that they do change and become out of date quite quickly, so I question the wisdom of having them there in the first place. If there is someone out there willing to do it, I would suggest just listing a few examples under each heading, with As of templates, saying that [whatever list] includes the following brands. Laterthanyouthink (talk) 03:14, 15 December 2020 (UTC)