Talk:Lipan Conjuring

I'm not sure this should even be an article (it's a 71-second filler song). But if it doesn't get deleted for notability reasons, we need to establish some sort of evidence like that it's a "sacred, ceremonial Apache song" (all we know is what Lipan means; Tool could simply have created this song without trying to imitate actual Lipan ceremonies). I think we're also running into problems of Bill McConnell -- my guess is that we have two people named the same thing, and they are getting mixed up. Dylan 12:42, 4 May 2006 (UTC)

There is absolutely no reason whatsoever that this should be an article. As the above person pointed out, it's a filler tracks that has no chance of becoming one of the band's notable songs. Further, the person that created this article is the same that created articles for Bill McConnell and PAST Skills Wilderness School, both of which have no reason for being added to Wikipedia. I suspect possible shameless promotion of Bill McConnell and his work.--207.193.248.144 19:14, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

This does need to be an article, despite the length and possible insignificance of the song; I came here to find out more about it. If information is seeked isn't it the encyclopedia's job to atleast try to supply it? Proeliator Sancti 20:36, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

I agree with you Proeliator Sancti. Even if it is 'Just a Tool filler song' the parent post's position that it is not wikipedia worthy is off base. This is a work of fiction by a notable band. I had no idea what Lipan was and came here for clarification. If you would like to produce evidence that Lipan isn't an Apache language and this is all a hoax then do so. Otherwise this article is informative and has a purpose. Also- are you stating that there can only be one notable Bill McConnell? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.70.11.254 (talk • contribs) 07:52, May 12, 2006 (EST)


 * Wikipedia has very well-defined standards on what constitutes a "notable" song, which you can see at WikiProject Music/Notability and Music Guidelines/Songs. "Lipan Conjuring" clearly does not meet any of the main criteria such as "Won a major award," "Charted in the top 100," etc.


 * As far as the name "Lipan" goes, that is all we know. Tool hasn't said that this is a "sacred, ceremonial song." We just know what Lipan means, and if you want to learn more about the Apache, you can click on that wikilink. I'm not arguing that the Lipan people do not exist, but I am pointing out that to claim that it is a sacred, ceremonial song is completely baseless: why would you think that? The only posisble motive for thinking that is the title. I don't need to prove that to you, you need to prove it to me.


 * Finally, my point about Bill McConnell is that there doesn't seem to be any connection between the wilderness-adventure side to him and the singing-songs side. My guess -- and this can happen quite frequently on Wikipedia -- is that someone saw that the two names were the same and assumed them to be the same person, whereas it seems to me that they could very easily be different people. At any rate, he is not notable for either of these ventures, even if he was in both, and his page is about to be deleted, as well. Dylan 13:24, 12 May 2006 (UTC)