Talk:Lisa Janti

settling issues
can we talk about the issues rather than editing and counter editing, even if you counter-edit yourself? I mean "Remove more pro-Bahai propaganda)" then "You are using Wikipedia to promote the Bahai Faith. This is not a neutral edit.)", then "(Revert to last edit with template. This article is still not NPOV.)", … your arguments are all over the place.

My arguments are "(listen to the interview)", "(it is significant to her and thus in lead.)", "(she didn't just investigate other religions and her choice of faith played a role in her career)". --Smkolins (talk) 02:14, 14 January 2014 (UTC)

More specifically these are the details that come from the A Baha'i Perspective interview:
 * "They lived in New York and Janti attended the Fiorello H. LaGuardia High School of Music & Art and Performing Arts but transferred to High School of Performing Arts after it opened in 1948 where she became involved with acting."


 * "Shortly afterwards her father died and the family chose to follow the opportunity Hollywood was giving her with her career."


 * "In 1956 she joined the Bahá'í Faith. Janti states that her family background included a diverse religious family history of (father's mother) Orthodox Russian and Islam, (father & father's father) Catholicism, (mother) a Christian Protestant, and (mother's mother) Judaism, but Janti herself was baptized Lutheran. In addition to her diverse background she explored various religions and philosophies including studying with Manly Palmer Hall when she learned of the religion. She learned of the Bahá'í Faith from other actors in a workshop and in her first meeting with Bahá'ís they resolved some questions she still had from her previous studies with the teaching of Progressive Revelation. In addition she had a profound personal experience affirming Bahá'u'lláh. Joining the religion played a role in changing her career from an actor to a social development advocate which she felt was a more fulfilling way of serving the religion than as a celebrity."


 * "By 1962, uncomfortable with the trend of Hollywood movies according to her point of view and seeking to be of greater service than being a celebrity that could bring attention to causes,"


 * "Among her early projects along this line is Project People which she co-hosted with Tom Bradley around 1963-4 (before he became mayor of Los Angeles) on KCOP-TV. She finally broke from acting after some years of volunteering at Head Start beginning in 1965 in L.A. when she took a position directing a Head Start program near Tucson Arizona for the Tohono O'odham on their Reservation. She attempted topioneer internationally to Ghana but a change in policy of the government ended her opportunity there before she could start. Instead she took a position with Bradley's administration after 1973 by being a liaison with various coalitions and commissions, dealing with various poverty, elderly, art and youth programs."


 * "…while she continues to write."

note the various wikilinks that arose from the content as well.

I hope this shows that the information provided is diverse and useful to the article. I'm not above refining it but I think your approach is inappropriate. --Smkolins (talk) 02:40, 14 January 2014 (UTC)

other sources showing prolonged effort as well as reference to other professional activities
former member of LA Mayor Tom Bradley staff, spoke to Oregon state women's conference sponsored by Baha'is administrative assistant to Mayor of LA, worked on programs for poor and elderly, advocated for equality for women which she claimed is emancipating mankind art exhibit at ProNaf Museum in Jaurez Janti speaking at receptions for the artist, director of Full Day Head Start program in Tuscon Human Rights Day program director of Child Development, the name of the Tucson Headstart program and worked at another in Watts, art exhibit at the Gallup Public Library, former chair of the Spiritual Assembly of the Baha'is of Culver City and serving as a delegate to the national Baha'i convention multiple times, chaired the LA County Committee on Human Relations and social issues focused television programing and worked at the Reading Dynamics Institute of Tucson. director of Child Development Centers Inc and once chair of human relations committee in Culver City <smallspoke at a 100th anniversary observance of Baha'i Faith, moved to Tucson as a director of a reading institute Temple City Baha'i talks sponsored talk at Baha'i event on race unity, previous chair of Human Relations Committee of Culver City local prelude to international meeting of the Baha'i Faith, stayed at Baha'i Center in Burlingame perhaps her first public talk on the Baha'i Faith married Azenat Janti March 31, 1957 --Smkolins (talk) 04:08, 14 January 2014 (UTC)
 * Monthly lecture series to begin Eugene Register-Guard, Oct 25, 1980, p. 13
 * Women held 'key' to peace in world, Grand Prairie Daily News, 24 October 1975 • Page 10
 * Art Exhibit Scheduled in ProNaf, El Paso Herald-Post, 9 February 1972 • Page 30
 * Human Rights Day Program, Tucson Daily Citizen, 10 December 1971 • Page 8
 * Art Exhibit, open house to be held Feb 28, The Gallup Independent, (Gallup, New Mexico), 26 February 1970 • Page 3
 * Baha'is will honor birth of founder, Tucson Daily Citizen, (Tucson, Arizona), 9 November 1968 • Page 9
 * Mrs. Janti speaker for Baha'i event, Tucson Daily Citizen, 28 October 1967 • Page 10
 * Baha'is set fireside talk on new sects, The Arcadia Tribune, (Arcadia, California), 4 November 1965 • Page 35
 * Race Unity to be Topic of Baha'i Community, California Eagle June 11, 1964, p. 6
 * Firesides for Baha'is, The Times (San Mateo, California), 8 March 1963 • Page 24
 * Mrs Janti will talk on Baha'i, Independent (Long Beach, California), 29 October 1960 • Page 5
 * Lisa Montell wed in Baha'i ceremony (AP) story in The Corpus Christi Caller-Times, 1 April 1957 • Page 35

break it up
World Peace Day panel in Ventura Ca included Janti among the group addressing a panel of Hopi leaders at a World Peace Day observance several talks as part of World Peace Day observances in Phoenix including one in Spanish. Pasadena Baha'i youth conference talk Texas Baha'i conference Janti presented on the UN Women's Conference in Mexico and was a member of the steering committee for the conference Janti is Chair of the Spiritual Assembly of Los Angeles when it gave a replica of the Aztec calendar stone to the educational center Plaza de la Raza Janti on the team for commerating Dizzy Gillespie's honor given by LA Baha'i community on his 50th yr in music "spiritual parenting" workshop team member at a children's conference in Pasadena --Smkolins (talk) 04:30, 14 January 2014 (UTC)
 * First annual observance of world peace day proclaims America's spiritual destiny: The world Peace Day panel, Baha'i News, November 1960, p. 7
 * Hopi Reservation conference observes world peace day, Baha'i News, November 1962, p 10-11
 * Wide variety of programs proclaim world peace day, Baha'i News, November 1963, p. 6-7
 * News Briefs; On the week-end of February..., Baha'i News, May 1964, p. 12
 * Women is subject of Texas conference, Baha'i News, November 1975, p. 15
 * On September 16, the Baha'is of Los Angeles County... (photo caption), Baha'i News, December 1978, p. 18
 * LA Baha'is honor Dizzy Gillespie, Baha'i News, December 1985, p. 6-7
 * Pasadena hosts Children's Conference, Baha'i News, October 1987, p. 10-11.

My response
The entire reason I counter-edited myself and put the template on is because I took the initiative to prevent an edit war before it started because I know you and I will go back and forth on this, and I'd rather have you present the article the way you'd like it with a check for neutrality as I'm satisfied with that and other editors can chime in. My arguments are that what you have posted lend promotion to the views of Ms. Janti and give undue weight to her personal opinions. There isn't even a filmography for Lisa Montell when the only reason this article exists is because of her movie career.

Here's a list of puffery from the article:

(1)"In addition she had a profound personal experience affirming Bahá'u'lláh. Joining the religion played a role in changing her career from an actor to a social development advocate which she felt was a more fulfilling way of serving the religion than as a celebrity."

(2)"in her first meeting with Bahá'ís they resolved some questions she still had from her previous studies with the teaching of Progressive Revelation."

Can you see how this is undue weight towards her opinions and religious beliefs bordering on advocacy? It's the same thing as saying that "Mitt Romney's Mormon faith has made him active in his community" or "Joe Biden states that Roman Catholicism guides his views on the poor." I would suspect that an editor of your stature knows better on neutral phrasing, undue weight and being careful in regards to editing topics that one is deeply connected with. There is an obvious problem with that phrasing and a way to make it more neutral. However, a mass restoration of questionable content does not inspire my confidence that you share those concerns regarding this matter. I have nothing for or against advocacy for any particular religion, but it doesn't belong on Wikipedia. I'd welcome a request for comment or a third opinion to settle this matter and I promise to abide by the decision made. --Guiletheme (talk) 05:27, 14 January 2014 (UTC)
 * I've already asked for a third opinion. And none of your arguments initially were about the substance of the statements - it was that I had an agenda. It isn't undue weight if this is what the person did. I thought the interview was enough justification of it but in the sense of being contested I went looking for news stories. --Smkolins (talk) 11:03, 14 January 2014 (UTC)

Speaking to (1) Amidst the details of her speaking engagements it also says what her professional work was. Noting her reasoning, her employment, and her activity in a variety of projects over many years - decades in fact. You will note her roles were also criticized about the stereotypes of attitude and racism they perpetuated in on of the newer citations added already. I actually thank you for pushing me for substantiation which I will be integrating into the article. Whether that convinces you of my earnestness in promulgating the standards of Wikipedia or not is up to you. But the substance of the words are tested and more info has been found.

(2) is simply a fact of her own pov, her own decisions what was important to her. --Smkolins (talk) 11:03, 14 January 2014 (UTC)

External links modified
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 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110723040202/http://www01.smgov.net/cityclerk/council/agendas/2001/a20010911.htm to http://www01.smgov.net/cityclerk/council/agendas/2001/a20010911.htm

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External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 2 external links on Lisa Janti. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://archive.is/20140114000510/http://www.valleyfreeradio.org/a-bahai-perspective-04042009/ to http://www.valleyfreeradio.org/a-bahai-perspective-04042009/
 * Added archive https://archive.is/20010717223107/http://www.smmirror.com/volume2/issue23/council_approves_controversial.html to http://www.smmirror.com/volume2/issue23/council_approves_controversial.html
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