Talk:Lismore, Scotland

Meaning
Lios as far as i know doesn mean garden but means a fort and since there are two ruined strongholds on the island i think that why it has that name.

The Scottish Parliament's Gaelic Placename website  says that it means Big garden--JBellis 19:00, 9 October 2005 (UTC)

- The meaning of Lios Mor has often caused debate and confusion. Ian Carmichael on p32 and p47 of Lismore in Alba opines that the island was called the Island of Loarn until Moluag founded his community there. On p48 he says that lios is a fort or fortified enclosure. He refers to Skene (WF Skene Celtic Scotland) who stated that lios applied to the circumvallation which marked the limits of of the enclosure of a Christian community, and which was often erected of earth or stone. 17 June 2006 Young Bachuil

Dwelly’s content too obscure?
Most of the chunk of text taken from Dwelly is very obscure and uses language that is difficult to comprehend for the modern reader. I suggest that it be removed or re-written in modern English indicating the sigificance of the content.--JBellis 10:24, 22 July 2006 (UTC)
 * I like the Dwelly content. The chance to include some old references is too good to pass up, in my opinion.  However, I do agree with you that in the obscure phrases a modern English "translation" would be helpful. Isoxyl 13:02, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

Move request

 * The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the move request was: '''speedily moved back. If a user wants to propose that the article be moved to Isle of Lismore, that should be done by starting a fresh nomination on this page, not by unilaterally moving it'''. Good Ol’factory (talk) 22:34, 29 April 2012 (UTC)

Isle of Lismore → Lismore, Scotland –. Moved to "Isle of Lismore" without any discussion, and now wrapped up in a discussion because a duplicate category was also created - see Categories for discussion/Log/2012 April 29. The correct title is Lismore, Scotland, per WP:PLACE. If need be, "Lismore Firth of Lorn" or similar would be a credible alternative. "Isle of" is not geographically correct and is not generally used either by the Ordnance Survey mapping or in formal geography articles. I have not simply deleted the new redirect page as I am clearly "involved". Ben  Mac  Dui  14:40, 29 April 2012 (UTC)
 * ObjectPresent naming is in line with other Argyll islands needing disambiguation such Isle of Bute and Isle of Mull. Also note the wider common use of the name Isle of Lismore Community Website,Walks on the Isle of Lismore and such like. RafikiSykes(talk) 14:24, 29 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Comment: "Isle of is NOT used by the following reliable sources:
 * Baird, Bob (1995) Shipwrecks of the West of Scotland. Glasgow. Nekton Books. ISBN 1897995024
 * Keay, J. & Keay, J. (1994) Collins Encyclopaedia of Scotland. London. HarperCollins. ISBN 000255082
 * Murray, W.H. (1973) The Islands of Western Scotland: the Inner and Outer Hebrides. London. Eyre Methuen. ISBN 0413303802
 * Murray, W.H. (1966) The Hebrides. London. Heinemann.
 * Ordnance survey
 * Scottish Natural Heritage
 * to name but a few, but it is used by tourist-oriented websites. Ben   Mac  Dui
 * Shows Isle of Lismore being commonly used back to Victorian times. Note several of the books above are specificly about islands so Using "isle of" for all of them within the text would would surey have rapidly repetitive.RafikiSykes (talk) 15:15, 29 April 2012 (UTC)
 * The comma then disambiguator after island name generally seems to be used when there are multiple islands by that name. When there only one island by a name the isle part is a common disambiguation and is surely the most majore difference from the others with the name.RafikiSykes (talk) 15:27, 29 April 2012 (UTC)
 * If you look through the various categories you will see numerous other examples such as Harris, Outer Hebrides and St Kilda, Scotland. According to Haswell-Smith's lists only the Isle of Ewe, the Isle of May and Isle Martin of the larger Scottish islands use the "Isle" nomenclature in a formal sense. Although e.g. An t-Eilean Sgitheanach in Gaelic is commonplace, in English this use is little different from say "London Town" or the "City of Seattle" - interesting PR, poor geography. Ben   Mac  Dui  16:15, 29 April 2012 (UTC)
 * St Kilda is an archipelago though surely so not the most apt comparison as the "isle of" wouldn't fit it? Also Harris, Outer Hebrides is part of Lewis and Harris so being non singular the "isle of" wouldnt fit so well and it is not so easy to compare to Lismore. RafikiSykes (talk) 16:39, 29 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Try Jura, Scotland, Muck, Scotland etc. etc. The point you are missing is that Bute and Mull are the exceptions, rather than the rule and you have not addressed the WP:Place issue. Ben   Mac  Dui  17:20, 29 April 2012 (UTC)

We're not in Victorian times anymore. I too object to the speedy and the new name. At the very least, this should have been debated. Akerbeltz (talk) 16:58, 29 April 2012 (UTC)
 * I was simply showing that as the earliest showing in a very quick search. modern usage is easily shown in this 2012 article from ForArgyll the Argyll news site http://forargyll.com/2012/02/pine-falls-manitoba-and-argylls-walking-theatre-clompany-the-day-we-danced-with-canada/RafikiSykes (talk) 17:11, 29 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Also note the use of the title by the community themselves on the website. http://www.isleoflismore.com/RafikiSykes (talk) 17:17, 29 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Indeed yes - on the home page they say "Lismore is an island". A website title, even a community name, is not the same as an island name. Ben   Mac  Dui  17:22, 29 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Also present day major newpaper usage so not purely Victorian times. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/property/greenproperty/8743846/Green-property-New-uses-for-wool.html RafikiSykes (talk) 17:30, 29 April 2012 (UTC)


 * Move back to Lismore, Scotland. The onus is on the mover to show that Isle of Lismore is the correct name for an article that begins "Lismore is" (and the prevailing format in Category:Islands of the Inner Hebrides does not include 'Island'). Oculi (talk) 18:07, 29 April 2012 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Move to Lismore, Argyll and Bute
I see that this page was moved from Lismore, Scotland to Lismore, Argyll and Bute ‎ with an edit summary of "Consistency; all other Lismore articles have 'Lismore' then the local area, rather than the country. E.g., Lismore, Co. Waterford rather than Lismore, Ireland."

I think that this should have been discussed first in view of the discussion above about a previous move. It also does not appear to be consistent with other islands e.g.: Jura, Scotland‎ and Canna, Scotland. There are also about 300 links that could be updated. AlasdairW (talk) 21:30, 16 October 2014 (UTC)


 * Firstly, I agree - to move a long standing article without any discussion is very unhelpful.
 * Secondly, Scottish island articles that require disambiguation go with the style [Island, Scotland] or, if there is more than one Scots island with that name, [Island, Archipelago]. There is no other use of [Island, Council area] that I am aware of (save in the Northern Isles where archipelago and Council area are the same)- thus we we have:
 * Oronsay, Inner Hebrides; Scalpay, Outer Hebrides; St Kilda, Scotland etc.
 * We now have a both a redirect problem and a category that is inconsistent.
 * Furthermore, the logic that 'other projects do it this way' is not one that generally applies on Wikipedia.
 * The simplest thing would be a move back to Lismore, Scotland. My 2nd preference woudl be Lismore, Inner Hebrides - although the latter is clumsy, less obvious to those unfamilair with Scots geography and unnecessary (there are no other Lismores in Scotland). Ben   Mac  Dui  07:37, 17 October 2014 (UTC)


 * Done - I will have a look at the other redirects as well soon. Ben   Mac  Dui  15:45, 19 October 2014 (UTC)

Moved again
Once again the article was moved without discussion, this time to Lismore (Scotland). I have moved it back to Lismore, Scotland in accordance with agreements above and WP:UKPLACE. --Deskford (talk) 12:55, 20 July 2015 (UTC)

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