Talk:List of American high school students who have run a four-minute mile

U.S. runners only?

 * Did you intend this article as a list of U.S. high school students who have run under four minutes for one mile? The title of the article does not limit it to the U.S., and there are plenty of non-U.S. junior runners who have broken four minutes in the mile. The problem becomes one of definition, however: what does "high school" mean? Many countries' school systems do not align with that in the U.S., and some countries probably do not have anything that we would recognize as "high school".

To give this article a global reach, the criteria for inclusion in the list should be made clear. Perhaps there should be multiple lists on this page, including 16-year-olds who have run under four minutes, 17-year-olds, and 18-year-olds. All of the runners on the U.S. list were 17 or 18 except for Maton, who was 19. Personally, I would rethink this list and use an age-based cutoff, which would allow the article to be applied globally.

Or the article could be moved to include "U.S." in the title. – Jonesey95 (talk) 01:29, 14 December 2018 (UTC)


 * It may make sense to include "U.S." in title. Americans seem preoccupied with this topic, so all the coverage talks about American high schoolers.  That doesn't mean the article can't include non-Americans somewhere in it.--Milowent • hasspoken  16:35, 4 March 2019 (UTC)
 * has resolved this issue by moving this article to a new title focusing it on American (US) runners only. – Jonesey95 (talk) 04:57, 10 February 2020 (UTC)

Some non-U.S. four-minute miles by 18-year-old (and younger) runners
There must be lists of Europeans and Africans somewhere who have run under four minutes in the mile while 18 or younger. – Jonesey95 (talk) 01:59, 14 December 2018 (UTC)
 * Steve Cram, age 17, 3:57 in 1978
 * Kevin Sullivan, high school senior, 3:59
 * Graham(sp?) Williamson, age 18, 3:56 in 1978 (better source needed)


 * has resolved this issue by moving this article to a new title focusing it on American (US) runners only. – Jonesey95 (talk) 04:57, 10 February 2020 (UTC)
 * Just to share on my reasoning for this – seeing athletic achievements through an educational lens is a very North American thing. High schools and higher education institutions elsewhere play a much smaller role in sport. Talented youths compete for sports clubs rather than schools and in many non-Western places, such as Kenya, the high school system has many fully-grown adults. So, as shown in the links above, these achievements are instead focused on chronological age rather than educational institutionalm when they occur outside of North America. I don't think "List of under-20 four-minute milers" is a topic that has any real cultural resonance, thus it makes sense to limit this to a focus on the United States high school system. SFB 10:25, 10 February 2020 (UTC)

Kejelcha NOT Guaranteed to Have Run Sub-4
This is a matter of simple mathematics. Consider this (HIGHLY PLAUSIBLE) scenario of his 4:57.74 2000m:


 * First 195.33m -         28.37s
 * Next 1609.34m (1 mile) - 4:01.00
 * Last 195.33m -          28.37s

In this case, his fastest continuous mile would be his first mile or his last mile of the 2000m, each of which would be 4:00.12 as follows:

First 195.33m - 28.37s

Next 1414.01m (remaining distance for 1 mile at 4:01.00 pace) - 3:31.75

Totals: 1609.34m - 4:00.12 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Aluce48 (talk • contribs) 20:18, 19 February 2019 (UTC)
 * Fair enough. I thought I had some sort of mathematical proof on my side, but I can't find any holes in your counter-example. For posterity, here is the section I have removed based on the above discussion:

Indoor world champion Yomif Kejelcha of Ethiopia, born August 1, 1997, ran 4:57.74 in an indoor 2000 m race on February 28, 2014, at age 16 years and 212 days. The run averages to a pace of 3:59.58 per mile for the 1.24-mile race, making it mathematically certain that Kejelcha ran one mile in under four minutes at some point during the race.
 * If someone else can find a hole in the math above, you are welcome to reinstate all or part of that text. – Jonesey95 (talk) 20:29, 19 February 2019 (UTC)
 * more importantly, a sub-4 mile with a running start wouldn't be ratified by the IAAF, because a standing start is about 0.7 seconds slower than a running one. the only way that Kejelcha could be credited with a sub-4 mile is if there's a documented split of his first mile in that 2K under 4:00, which would count as an en-route performance. it seems like there was no 1609m split in that case.
 * also, there are a few Canadian high schoolers excluded from this list. i might get to adding it and reformatting some time soon. --Habst (talk) 03:24, 2 August 2019 (UTC)