Talk:List of Atari Jaguar games

Given that almost all recent edits have been carried out by user KGRAMR, the references to work he has himself researched WP:OR, as well as the issue with him working for wave 1 games WP:CoI (as revealed in his interview on arcade attack http://www.arcadeattack.co.uk/roberth-anthony-martinez-rivero/ ) when adding references to their games calls into question both the validity and neutrality of the article.

Several references do not agree with the statements made e.g. Akira as an unreleased game based on the SNES version, this is pure supposition as the linked article simply states "it should also be available and we hope it's better than the SNES version". The link for heretic is to a YouTube video by one of his colleagues, Kieren Hawken, which runs at the incorrect speed as it is shown running under an emulator that is known to run in excess of 200 percent of the correct value - as can be noted by the frame rate in the top left of the display etc.

I would also question the usefulness of a section called unreleased games. It could be said that any title not released on the Atari Jaguar could fit in here e.g. Super Mario Brothers. A paragraph stating that " There are numerous games that were being worked on prior to their cancellation due to the poor retail performance. With rare exceptions, no source or playable demos exist for most of these titles." StraightDown (talk) 00:08, 13 March 2018 (UTC)


 * Yes, i worked for Wave 1 Games but i'm not adding titles in a arbitrary manner or because I was told by the head of Wave 1 Games, I add them to keep the upcoming releases of the Jaguar homebrew scene (that's why I did an entirely new article for it, the same goes for the unreleased titles) and no, i'm not making stuff up.

KGRAMR (talk) 12:00 9 April 2018 (UTC)

Sonic the Hedgehog on Jaguar?
I do belive that when the Atari Jaguar was on the market, it competed both with Sega's 32x and Saturn. And If I am not wrong, Sega did not port Sonic games to non Sega platforms until it left the market, years after Atari, so I would say that Sonic the Hedgehog was never on the Jaguar, CD nor Cartridge. mcjakeqcool Mcjakeqcool (talk) 16:20, 8 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Any joy on wether or not Sonic the Hedgehog was releaced on the Jaguar? If so, give us a bell asap. mcjakeqcool Mcjakeqcool (talk) 19:24, 3 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Sonic the Hedgehog was never done on the Atari Jaguar. Wishful thinking on the part of the person who added that. --Anon. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.48.120.164 (talk) 12:50, 9 October 2014 (UTC)


 * That rumor of Sonic the hedgehog on the Jaguar came on a GEnie chat from many years ago due to a cross-licensing deal that happend between Atari and Sega behind the scenes. KGRAMR — Preceding unsigned comment added by KGRAMR (talk • contribs) 03:27, 25 August 2017 (UTC)

List is unorganized and incomplete
I was looking at the list of games for Atari Jaguar and noticed that all games in it plus CD but doesn't tell you which ones are the CD ones plus the regions Developer and Publisher sections are missing info — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.122.163.119 (talk) 14:18, 10 January 2014 (UTC)


 * I think you'll love to see this. It's not even in any of the Mobygames, GameFAQs & even Atariage forums dedicated to the Jaguar. These are the japanese release dates of some of the titles released for the system. Japanese dates & all that. They even list who were the distributors of the system in the country!: [1] & [2] KGRAMR (talk) 22:31, 25 August 2017 (UTC)

Expand & Improve the list
Hey everybody! Hope you're all doing well. I have lots of info about planned, unreleased, unfinished & mentioned games for the Atari Jaguar that i've found out by myself & ex-founder of Digital Press Scott Stilphen. I'll use that info to expand the list (alongside the inclusion of the ST-to-Jaguar ports by Lawrence "CyranoJones of D-Bug" Staveley at Atariage & homebrew games by other developers). I'll also try to improve the list to make it more like the other lists such as the Sega 32X, SNES & Sega Dreamcast list. Last but not least, i've found out two very important pieces that talk about the Jaguar in Japan + release dates & publishers of the titles there. KGRAMR (talk) 22:31, 25 August 2017 (UTC)

This states that you are conducting your own research and using that to update the article. Which part of WP:OR do you not think you are breaking? References link to your colleagues videos, Kieren Hawken, to then justify their inclusion. WP:CoI A full check of this, and other articles kgramr has been involved in will need to be carried out. StraightDown (talk) 23:33, 17 March 2018 (UTC)


 * Umm no, i'm not conducting my own original research and i ain't breaking any rules stated by Wikipedia but go ahead and believe what you want, i'm not doing anything wrong StraightDown.

KGRAMR (talk) 12:27, 19 March 2018 (UTC)
 * A simple denial with no clarifying explanation of your statement and subsequent edits is not at all convincing.--Martin IIIa (talk) 21:09, 20 March 2018 (UTC)
 * Oh, so allowing StarightDown to come at Lost Levels forum pretending to be a guy i know from AtariAge called VladR and start saying the "truth" about me is OK then?

KGRAMR (talk) 23:03, 1 April 2018 (UTC)
 * http://forums.lostlevels.org/viewtopic.php?p=35447#35447

I see you've gone for the usual defence of attacking someone without actually denying the issue at hand, much like when you made the accusation of Martin IIIa being 'Lost Dragon' and doing deletes on Atari articles when it was you that made the edits and he reverted them (you had deleted games by "Reboot" while promoting the ones of the company you have an involvement with). I see you have now expanded to contaminate other articles with the references that were deleted from here.


 * At first, i did thought that WAS Ross Sillifant (a.k.a. Lost Dragon/LD/Last Shogun/The Furthest Man From Home/Chryssalid/Rouge Trooper/roguetroope/Vulture/The Voice Of Truth and whatever nickname he has because he can't just stick to one nickname only) but i later realized he's a completely different person (he might be Martin III at The 3DO Zone forums but i'm not too sure about it) so if Martin is reading this i want to apologize to you for thinking you were a person i really do not like from forums. About that part of deleting Reboot games here before i made the revamp to the list, it was always part of the revamp (remove them and put them on their own article, it was not warranted that you made a thread about it at AtariAge but you guys always jump to conclusions before thinking. Am i wrong  or should i say Welshworrier? http://atariage.com/forums/topic/266872-wikipedia-entries-for-jag-games/) so i didn't delete them with malicious intentions, as you're trying to state. Aslo, delete on Atari articles? Name me one where i deleted something important then. And about contaminating articles? Come on, i was posting information that needed to be updated on the Homebrew article in regards to the Atari Jaguar scene. Also, promoting Wave 1 Games because i worked for them, just for cover arts and testing of their titles? It's a company ran by only one guy. I added them to keep the post-release section updated, not because of self-promotion and i worked for them as a freelance if you didn't knew that so i'm not associated with anybody. But go ahead and spread the "truth" about me then, as you falied on Lost Levels when you got banned by assuming VladR's nickname to put a stain on his good name and he had to come foward and clear the situation, only to have you mocking his nickname and his technical demos (http://forums.lostlevels.org/viewtopic.php?p=35447#35447). That's all from me here on the article and if anybody with good intentions wants to keep them updated, like Martin IIIa or Govvy, then i welcome them, not turn Wikipedia into yet another forum KGRAMR (talk) 11:06 8 April 2018 (UTC)
 * Um, what are you on about? You seem to believe I'm two, I'm assuming here, unrelated people? Much like your updates here there appears to be little evidence to support it beyond you saying so.


 * If you Google search, as I did when I started looking at these articles and see the incredible change log, you will find a thread from Atari age near the top that talks about you and the edits you made. Interestingly you tried to blame Martin for that after denying any involvement at the time according to that thread. That's where I got the information from.


 * I followed your lost levels link and have to say that the comments made by "VladR" gave interesting reading, the accusations you made on YouTube being a stand out.


 * I don't know who you think I am but I'm neither of the two people you've linked to (it's interesting that someone else at least wants to use Wikipedia and noticed your edits). You may also notice that everything I've deleted from the lists has been checked against the citations you made which don't say what you have asserted in the article.


 * As to your wave 1 involvement, you say it's minor and yet, from seeing the edit history from the time specified in the Atari age thread, it appears you added a few Wave 1 games that had not been announced anywhere else (something with Beez and Mandela (sic.)) they have not reappeared since so should I assume they've been cancelled (and so should be in the list ironically?)

StraightDown (talk) 20:08, 8 April 2018 (UTC)


 * C'mon, are you going to deny it now? As soon as you mentioned Wikipedia on Lost Levels, i knew it was you and when you mentioned Reboot's homebrew titles that were previously deleted (so i could put them in their own article here Wikipedia), i knew it was you Welshworrier so don't act surprised about it. That's confidential in regards as to what happend to Beez 64 and The Mandela Effect and i can't comment about them here and i can't add them to the unreleased titles. Even though i worked as freelance for Wave 1 Games, i can't comment their status as i would get into a serious trouble with them. KGRAMR (talk) 20:37 8 April 2018 (UTC)
 * I'm denying it because it's not true oddly enough. It does confirm my earlier comment about you. The basis of your belief is because "you know". Because the word Wikipedia was used in a post on a forum by someone you have assumed it is obviously the same person who spotted your earlier transgression.
 * Even though a simple google search for kgramr and Wikipedia brings up the thread in question on the first page of results!
 * As for the reboot homebrew titles, you are aware that is mentioned in the Atari age thread too. Incidentally you deleted the reboot software entries in March 2017 and when did you create the article you said you were going to copy them into? March 2018. If you are going to blatantly lie about the reasoning behind it then at least have some credibility.
 * As to the wave 1 software you admit you work for them, in the link on your about page, but you say you don't really. You did add the Beez64 title that was deleted but you now can't talk about it due to a business relationship with wave 1 games! Once again I ask which part of WP:CoI do you think doesn't apply to you? As for whoever wants to call a game the Mandela effect, perhaps they should learn the difference between Mandela and mandala as a staring at the prison cell wall game doesn't sound that appealing.

StraightDown (talk) 01:42, 9 April 2018 (UTC)


 * Something that i forgot to say is that the interview with me that you linked was back when i was still a Wave 1 Games freelance employee, which means it was months ago. I don't work for them anymore, which means that WP:CoI does not apply to me in any term (the guy who did the interview with me at Arcade Attack told me that some of the interviews were done months prior to its publication so, a lot could happen before a interview is published). I should also state that i didn't had a draft ready to re-introduce the Reboot games into the post-release section back in 2017 but other stuff (mainly college stuff) kept me from doing so. It wasn't until January 2018 that i started to work on the list so yes, i did delete them but not for animosity. KGRAMR (talk) 03:09, 9 April 2018 (UTC)

Given that the section here on the talk page of the article was derailed and turned into a forum, i'll no longer post anything here anymore. If wants to keep putting WP:CoI to me (despite giving him the real reason as to why that interview stated that i work/worked for Wave 1 Games) and keep spreading the "truth" about me then go ahead but that tag does not apply to me and i do not have any wish to argue with you again here anymore (because if i do, i'm just going to keep feeding him so he can throw whatever excuse to apply the CoI tag to me). KGRAMR (talk) 03:23, 9 April 2018 (UTC)

A better reply that unfortunately is using what is called a "lie' as its premise. The link to the interview was put there by yourself as was the edit in this talk from 17th of March where you state "Yes I do work for Wave 1 Games but i'm not adding titles in a arbitrary manner or because I was told by the head of Wave 1 Games, I add them to keep the upcoming releases of the Jaguar homebrew scene (that's why I did an entirely new article for it, the same goes for the unreleased titles) and no, i'm not making stuff up.".

You do realise what you've previously written on the internet is still readable? It's even easier to find when it's in the same article, just about 20 lines up. StraightDown (talk) 09:06, 9 April 2018 (UTC)

Request for pictures of a Atari Jaguar cartridge and a CD title
The title pretty much says so. We need a picture of a Jaguar title (Cybermorph, both the front and the back) and a Jaguar CD title (either Blue Lightning or Vid Grid; front and back) to better illustrate the article for the readers. They had to be of a good resolution too. KGRAMR (talk) 00:56 31 March 2018 (UTC)