Talk:List of Atharis

Note
Hello, regarding your edit here. Yes! This list is about the Atharis, which, most likely, means the followers of Ahmad ibn Hanbal. As the Hanbali scholar al-Saffarini said in his book Lawami' al-Anwar al-Bahiyya:

Accordingly, followers of schools of jurisprudence other than the Hanbali school must be deleted. What do you think?--TheEagle107 (talk) 08:48, 25 March 2024 (UTC)


 * Hello! I removed them because they were listed as Hanbalis although they aren’t, and thus don’t belong in that section.
 * As for removing the followers of other schools, I don’t agree as the list needs additional content, and that would make it shorter than it already is. Also, any notable person who is described as an Athari by reliable sources should be listed here.
 * However, the important connection between Hanbalis and Atharism should be emphasized. The sources you put here are great and should be added to the lead! Also, the list is missing Ahmad ibn Hanbal himself while there are probably plenty of reliable sources that describe him as an Athari. (Although none are listed on his page, one could add them if they took the time.)
 * Some needed improvements:
 * The page should be organized better by listing according to birth or death date instead of randomly.
 * Sources should be added for well-known Atharis who are missing them, such as Ibn al-Qayyim.
 * People who aren’t notable and are unsourced should be removed.
 * A section should be made for Atharis who don’t fit into the other categories, including classical scholars such as Yahya ibn Ma'in, al-Darimi, and al-Tabari, as well as a section for modern Salafis such as al-Albani.
 * Yasinzayd (talk) 13:22, 25 March 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for your quick feedback. I agree with you, "any notable person who is described as an Athari by reliable sources should be listed here." The problem here is that most English sources says "Traditionalist" not "Athari"! Traditionalists may refer to: Ahl al-Hadith (the People of the Hadith) and/or Atharism (Traditionalist theology). Scholars before Ahmad ibn Hanbal (d. 241/855) cannot be considered Atharis in theology; because Ahmad ibn Hanbal is the Imam of Atharis.

Taj al-Din al-Subki said in his Tabaqat al-Shafi'iyya al-Kubra:

Anyway, I generally agree with your suggestions. Go ahead! 👍 Peace.--TheEagle107 (talk) 08:27, 26 March 2024 (UTC)


 * Athari is a bit of a convoluted term—unlike Ash'ari and Maturidi which are obviously are named after their founders, Athari comes from the Arabic word athar ('tradition'), hence why English sources sometimes call them Traditionalists.
 * Yes, it is used to describe followers of Ahmad ibn Hanbal! I agree, and this should be shown better in the article. But sources also use it to refer to scholars belonging to Ahl al-Hadith, or any earlier scholar who followed the same strict textualist theology. Sources also refer to scholars before Ahmad ibn Hanbal as Traditionalists (which can be distinguished from its other meaning using context) or just Atharis.
 * Perhaps this can all be reconciled by noting that the creed existed before Ahmad ibn Hanbal, but it wasn't formally established until he came championing his views, and the later Atharis took him as their imam.
 * I haven't found much time to write a reply so my apologies. Peace. Yasinzayd (talk) 04:54, 2 April 2024 (UTC)