Talk:List of Bartimaeus characters

Orthography
At present (June 2006) this article has a very poor level of orthography, with numerous irregularities of formatting, presentation, spelling, punctuation and grammar. Tenses switch wildly, and despite several people's attempts to improve the spelling and punctuation there are still many faults. It could really do with a big overhaul, and I wish I had the time right now to do that.

Bias
Im guessing this was written by the same person who wrote the "Bartimaeus Trilogy" article, because again, It's biased towards his/her favorite characters.

spoilers
I think the article should be marked for spoilers. When i was scrolling down the page i found spoilers about book two, which i had'nt read yet.

You shouldn't be reading an article for a series, and not expect to see excerpts from the book(s) you haven't read!!71.99.110.7 18:57, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

Hybrid?
In the main wiki page of this series it mentions hybrids alot. Just do ctrl+f and search for it. What is a hybrid? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.107.113.173 (talk) 02:07, 12 January 2010 (UTC)

Verroq?
Waaaaait a second... when is the mercenary's name mentioned? I've never heard of him having a name before, and considering how much I adore this series, I'm pretty sure I'd have noticed.

B-Fennec 02:19, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

Well, this just prooves that you need to be a better reader.71.99.110.7 23:30, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

FYI, Makepeace mentions his name once in book 3, In the theatre, just after all the ministers are captured and before Nathaniel and Kitty are taken away.

The mercenary's name is not used enough and for this to be helpful it needs to be accessible to those who haven't read the third book. Also the name isn't that memorable. there is no call for personla remarks. For this reason I have changed the heading to "Mercenary (Verroq)"--Beligaronia (talk) 10:49, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

pretty sad how he has the longest section, seeing how hes not even a main character...

What IS Shubit?
Jessica Whitwell's demon, named Shubit...About it...Is it a djinni or an afrit? In the second book, it described it as a djinni, but in the third, it was an afrit...Or it was the other way around, I don't remember. —Preceding unsigned comment added by James chen0 (talk • contribs) 00:11, 15 January 2008 (UTC)
 * You hve it the right way 'round. I call him an afrt just because it makes him cooler, but we have no idea. Therequiembellishere (talk) 04:29, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

Start-class
No referencing as yet. :: Kevinalewis  : (Talk Page) /(Desk)  09:44, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

Jabor
Isn't Jabor an Afrit? I changed it, sorry if I was wrong, but I could have sworn in the first or second book it said he was an afrit. Leosj (talk) 00:41, 15 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Sorry, he's not. Therequiembellishere (talk) 00:48, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

Nathaniel Underwood
Can it really be said that his last name was Underwood? His real last name is forgotten (or if he remembers it, ignored). His magicians name is Mandrake. Underwood doesn't seem to fit in anywhere. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.130.24.76 (talk) 16:18, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

Hathor
Hathor is a goddess. NOT a spirit. Since she is mentioned in the official site she can stay but nowhere does it say she is a spirit. The books say djinn in her temple wore bullheads but that is as close as she gets to spirit. The siute only mentions her godesshood.-Beligaronia (talk) 22:11, 1 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Under the spirit section. Therequiembellishere (talk) 04:03, 2 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Actually under enchanted beings but sure. Why would the priests worship a slave/demon? We know they summoned djinn so obviously used and abused them same as everyone else. And if she was a spirit she would be so powerful, she would run amok.--Beligaronia (talk) 11:56, 2 August 2008 (UTC)
 * You're completely using WP:OR. The fact is that she is listed as a spirit on the main site. Therequiembellishere (talk) 15:05, 2 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Thereq...: see here: "Hathor — In Egyptian religion, goddess of love and divine mother and protector of the newborn." from official website . I'm agreeing with Beligaronia that she is not a spirit but a goddess, but I'm not sure where to put her. The spirit heading is clearly wrong though. -- THE DARK LORD TROMBONATOR  09:30, 29 August 2008 (UTC)

Martha Underwood
I won't change it (she doesn't fit in either section really), But I don't follow your reasoning in that she is a Magician. When did Nat lie? (Yes In am using WP:OR so I won't change the article) -she didn't have knowledge of summoning so she can't have been a magician. (Underwood explains that Nat is nervous about his first summoning why would he need to if she was a magician) Where does it say Magicians and commoners didn't marry? Amanda Cathcart was a commoner albeit a wealthy one and she and Lovelace were getting on fine. and the interaction between Underwood and the teachers showed they did mix at least to some extent in a professional manner. Thank you for your time.--Beligaronia (talk) 07:46, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Nat tells Whitwell (and the Cabinet) that Martha attempted to take on Lovelace single-handedly, meaning she had to be able to do some magic. Martha and Arthur also have a conversation about "interbreeding" and Martha uses "Commoner" in a way that distances herself from them. I always assumed she was a weak magician because Arthur wouldn't want to be overshadowed by a more-powerful wife. I guess they can intermarry, but it's looked down on by some (Arthur being one); also, a romantic and a working relationship are two very different thing, as we know, and because the magicians are outnumbered, I don't think they could function without it. Therequiembellishere (talk) 09:50, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Nataniel says that "even Mrs Underwood had pitched in, heroically trying to tackle Lovelace herself." This passage indicates that it was an unlikely act "even Mrs Underwood", and that she attacked him physically as shown by "tackle". If she could do magic why would it have been unlikely that she tried to help.--Beligaronia (talk) 00:46, 24 August 2008 (UTC)
 * "Unlikely" meaning she wasn't powerful and you do realise that "tackle" is a figure of speech and isn't always a push? Therequiembellishere (talk) 01:04, 24 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Apologies for misusing "tackle". But there is no requirement of magic to attack a magician. Look at Mrs Lutyens, who attacked Lovelace with the same amount of success without a spoonful of magic. And everyone believed she had done it.--Beligaronia (talk) 04:15, 24 August 2008 (UTC)
 * What d'you mean, they believed? Therequiembellishere (talk) 04:26, 24 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Your tone indicated that had Martha been unable to do magic it would have been implausible for her to attack Lovelace and the magicians wouldn't have believed Nat's story. I meant that it was plausible for Lutyens to attack Lovelace despite her lack of magic.--Beligaronia (talk) 07:38, 24 August 2008 (UTC)
 * True, but her conversations with Arthur still distance her. Therequiembellishere (talk) 07:53, 24 August 2008 (UTC)
 * For all your WP:OR-bashing in the above post, Therereq..., you are certainly applying liberal amounts here. Martha is never shown to perform magic, and the official website (which would be considered canonical information) does not state this: "Arthur Underwood's diminutive wife and close friend to Nathaniel." . Buuuutttt... with that said she is never expressed directly as a commoner either. I would propose leaving her as a magician but with the addition of a note that states clearly that her magical skills are questionable. -- THE DARK LORD TROMBONATOR  09:38, 29 August 2008 (UTC)

The book heavily implies it. That probably still falls under POV, but it does. Therequiembellishere (talk) 23:53, 29 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Well I made a note anyway indicating her dubious status. -- THE DARK LORD TROMBONATOR  10:55, 30 August 2008 (UTC)

Where's Nathaniel?
Er, whatever happened to the section on Nathaniel? His individual page just redirects here. Alessandriana (talk) 06:17, 8 December 2008 (UTC)
 * It got deleted without a merger. I think User:MBisanz (Closing Admin) gave the page to User:A Nobody but I don't know what he did to it. If you can start writiing the section again feel free. --Beligaronia (talk) 07:15, 8 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I checked Special:Allpages. A Nobody doesn't appear to have it in a subpage, and is on wikibreak at the moment. (Then again so am I...) -- THE DARK LORD TROMBONATOR  10:24, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

Description of Quentin Makepeace
"Beneath his friendly demeanor was a sadistic, powerful, mastermind who was willing to make his plans work by any means necessary." As Makepeace was never described in such strong terms in the novels, this seems like editorial license by the article —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.250.49.208 (talk) 03:08, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

Purpose of article?
There is no mention at all of principal characters in the main article Bartimaeus Trilogy (now Bartimaeus Sequence), and we have this way over-elaborated article that in a piecemeal way, tells the whole plot in terms of the roles of the characters! The grammar and diction are (or were) egregious. This is an encyclopedia - a concise scholarly summary of the topic, i.e. a book or books. Only the principal characters (limit a dozen?) need to be described. Other characters can be named, with roles (magician, demon, etc) in a bullet list (but again be brief, a dozen, no more). If you want to know more, READ THE BOOK! The wiki is not an almanac, or a literary review, or literary criticism. This article can be summarized into a reasonable section-length presentation, and merged into the main article, where it belongs. First things first.Sbalfour (talk) 20:51, 9 April 2014 (UTC)

Other named spirits section moved here pending cleanup
It doesn't help anyone comprehend the book to make a randomly inclusive list of every proper name of person, being or spirit that appears in the books for any reason. That's not scholarship. This is ostensibly a list of participatory characters in the story, not just names in passing. I'd suggest some inclusion/exclusion criteria like the name must appear at least a dozen times in the text, and the character it represents must be in close relationship with a major character, or a key participant in one of the important events of the story. To keep things in proportion, I'd further limit the 'Other named spirits' list to 20 names (currently 37).Sbalfour (talk) 17:56, 9 September 2015 (UTC)

Other named spirits

 * Affa was a djinni in service to Ptolemy who advised him on how to enter the Other Place in Ptolemy's Gate. He was killed by Roman spirits while trying to protect his beloved master.
 * Ammet was a powerful spirit mentioned in Ptolemy's Gate. In the recent trilogy prequel, he is revealed to be a marid in the service of one of Solomon's magicians. Unusually among spirits, he served his master Khaba willingly as they shared the same interests and desires. In the end he is imprisoned in a wine jar by Bartimaeus and sent to the bottom of the Mediterranean Sea. While undeniably evil, it is arguable that the relationship between Ammet and Khaba is similar to the one that Bartimaeus would forge with Ptolemy centuries later.
 * Ascobol was a greater djinni in service to Mr Mandrake. He was prone to sarcasm and young by spirit terms. He only appeared in Ptolemy's Gate where he was killed by Faquarl. He normally appeared as a Cyclops. He had also served in India.
 * Asmoral was a djinni who was spoken of in The Amulet of Samarkand. He was torn in two after refusing to follow his master's command to destroy Ianna. The explosion destroyed not only him, but his master and several residential areas near Baghdad: it is for this that he is also known as the "Resolute".
 * Baztuk was an utukku who Bartimaeus called 'Bull-head" who appeared in the Amulet of Samarkand and fought Bartimaeus in the Battle of Al-Arish, was in service to the Khmer Empire and was also a sentry in the Tower of London. It was here that he was killed by Faquarl.
 * Bodmin was an imp who was killed in the Thirty Years' War. Bartimaeus posed as him in The Amulet of Samarkand, suggesting he knew Bodmin.
 * Bolib was one of the hybrids in Ptolemy's Gate (possibly the hybrid in Mr Devereaux) who was killed by Mandrake and Bartimaeus.
 * Borello was forced into Mr Drew's body by Mr Makepeace in Ptolemy's Gate and was killed by Mandrake and Bartimaeus.
 * Castor was a djinni in service to Mr Mandrake who was mentioned in the Golem's Eye. He was an efficient spirit who possessed a fiery pride and was dismissed after stabbing an imp with a shish-kebab skewer.
 * Clovis was a foliot in service to Mr Mandrake in the Golem's Eye and was one of two foliots Mandrake uses as "orphan children" to infiltrate the Resistance, though he once forgot to remove his tail.
 * Cormocodran was third-level djinni in service to Mr Mandrake who appeared in Ptolemy's Gate. He usually looked like a man-boar and had no sense of humor. He was ultimately killed by Faquarl.
 * Frisp was a one of two foliots mentioned in Ptolemy's Gate who found Bartimaeus guarding a catacomb in Rome after the Barbarian Invasion and misinterpreted why he was there, telling imps that he was avoiding conflict in it and was killed (surely by Bartimaeus) for it.
 * Fritang was lesser djinni in service to Mr Mandrake in Ptolemy's Gate, who was once discovered by children with Resilience while acting as a spy on the docks.
 * Gaspar was the spirit who entered Mr Lime's body in Ptolemy's Gate and was killed by Mandrake and Bartimaeus.
 * Hibbet was one of seven imp sentries during the Golem Affair mentioned in the Golem's Eye who was killed by Honorius.
 * Hodge was a very powerful greater djinni in service to Mr Mandrake who appeared in Ptolemy's Gate and was killed by Faquarl.
 * Ianna was a djinni mentioned in the Amulet of Samarkand. She fell in love with Asmoral the Resolute, who then died for her.
 * Methys was a djinni in service to Ptolemy who was killed by Roman spirits in Ptolemy's Gate while attempting to protect his beloved master.
 * Mormel was an afrit who was mentioned in Ptolemy's Gate and was chosen by Faquarl for Ms Whitwell to be her hybrid: he was most likely given to the magician next in line, in which case, he was killed by Mandrake and Bartimaeus.
 * Mwamba was a greater djinni in service to Mr Mandrake who usually took the form of a giant lizard wearing leather thigh boots in Ptolemy's Gate. She was one of the friendlier djinn in Mandrake's service and didn't tease Bartimaeus for his decline. She formerly served under the Abaluyia tribes of Eastern Africa and was eventually killed by Faquarl.
 * Naeryan was an afrit who took part in the Spirit Revolt and was killed by Mandrake and Bartimaeus in Ptolemy's Gate. She is unique in the fact that her character was adapted from the story made by Catrina Doxsee, who won the Bartimaeus Fantasy Writing Contest. Her true form consists of an indigo blue-black torso, three sharp eyes, as well as many spider-like limbs: she was a former ally of Bartimaeus.
 * Nemaides was a djinni in service to Mr Tallow who was charged to inflict the Black Tumbler upon Jakob and Kitty after they accidentally damaged Tallow's Rolls Royce in The Golem's Eye. He, for unknown reasons, takes the form of a green monkey.
 * Nittles was a foul-mouthed messenger imp in service to Mr Lovelace in the Amulet of Samarkand whom Bartimaeus literally squeezes information about Mr Lovelace out of.
 * Nubbin was a lesser djinni who was first summoned and served as a sentry during the Siege of Prague and it was there that he was presumably killed. He appeared in the Golem's Eye. He took the form of a frog. A 'nubbin' is something that is small and deformed.
 * Patterknife was an afrit in service to Mr Gladstone in the Golem's Eye who fought in the Siege of Prague. He was possibly the afrit who fought Queezle and was killed by a golem or the afrit who led the assault on the Czech Emperor and battle Bartimaeus. Used a silver scythe in battle.
 * Penrenutet was a djinni in service to Ptolemy in Ptolemy's Gate who was killed by Roman spirits in an effort to protect his beloved master.
 * Phoebus was an afrit in service to Chief Minister Hans Meyrink of the Czech Empire who was mentioned in the Golem's Eye and killed before the Siege Of Prague.
 * Pollux was one of two foliots who found Bartimaeus guarding a catacomb in Rome after the Barbarian Invasion and misinterpreted why he was there, telling imps that he was avoiding conflict in it, and was killed by Bartimaeus for it and was mentioned in Ptolemy's Gate. May have had some history with Castor.
 * Purip was a lesser djinni in service to Mr Mandrake in Ptolemy's Gate who was one of the first to suggest a Commoners' Revolutionary War on top all of the other Revolutionary Wars.
 * Sophocles was a foliot in service to Mr Mandrake who appeared in the Golem's Eye and helped keep Mr Hyrnek in check while Mandrake goaded Jones into giving him the Staff, though when Mandrake gave the order to kill Hyrnek, Jones reacted by killing Sophocles instead.
 * Tchue was a clever, fourth-level afrit famed for his wit (a rarity among Afrits) who fought Bartimaeus in an epic battle and was mentioned in Ptolemy's Gate (though this is most likely an empty boast, he likely did know Tchue given that he references him a few times).
 * Teti was a djinni in service to Ptolemy who appeared in Ptolemy's Gate and killed by Roman spirits with his colleagues while trying to protect his beloved master.
 * Tibbet was one of seven imp sentries during the Golem Affair who appeared in the Golem's Eye.
 * Truklet was an imp in service to Mr Jenkins in Ptolemy's Gate who was eaten by Bartimaeus while trying to expose him during the Spirit Revolt.
 * Xerxes was an utukku that Bartimaeus called 'Eagle-beak" and a sentry in the Tower of London, where he was killed by Jabor in the Amulet of Samarkand. He is apparently younger than Baztuk or simply does not remember Bartimaeus.
 * Yole was a spirit in service to Ms Farrar who appeared in Ptolemy's Gate as in a scrying glass, where he showed Farrar and Mandrake his spying on Jenkins, however his angle was poor and was duly punished by Farrar enough to make him quiver when he spoke with her.
 * Zeno was a djinni who bravely flew straight to the National Gallery to fight the golem during the Golem Affair in the Golem's Eye and was promptly killed by it.

cleanup
I've substantially cleaned up and shortened the text: Sbalfour (talk) 19:00, 11 September 2015 (UTC)
 * Eliminated all references to how characters died. These details have nothing to do with the role of the character - they may be moved to the appropriate Plot Summary sections of the book articles
 * Reduced or eliminated details of characters involvement in events - these are properly part of the plot, and should be moved to the appropriate Plot Summary sections of the book articles.
 * reclassified several characters according to how they were described in the book, rather than speculation by editors: Clem Hopkins, Martha Underwood
 * omitted many trivial details of characters physical appearance. Since books are not a visual medium, the character's appearance is not a notable part of the character