Talk:List of Bose home audio products

pre-January 2012 content
The edit of 1 Feb 2012 07:36 is titled "restored some remove content". However this is effectively a revert of edits which were intended to lessen the advertising tone and jargon previously in this article. I believe most of the factual content was retained, albeit heavily reworded for the above aims. Also, the article was restructured (so that people who are not experts in Bose product categorisation can follow it easier) and this has been reverted. Please identify specific phrases that do not have an equivalent in the new text, then we can incorporate them in a more neutral manner.1292simon (talk) 07:30, 2 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Please see your talk page. -- Phoenix (talk) 11:23, 2 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Noted. Please identify specific issues here. I have gone to much effort to edit in a way that specific issues/sections can be identified easily for discussion and revision (ie I revised the structure first, then changed to each section in separate edits). The method you are using (just reverting the whole page with only very vague description and no Talk) is hindering progress on improving the article and makes life hard for other editors. Please respect others contributions and be more specific with your edits and discussions 1292simon (talk) 00:55, 4 February 2012 (UTC)

Phoenix, your edit summary of "Blanked almost 50% of the article" is misleading, since much of that is either spec tables (discussed separately below) or rewriting verbose jargon descriptions.1292simon (talk) 07:55, 4 February 2012 (UTC)

Article structure
"Freestyle" and "cinemate" do not confirm to general acceptance of term "speaker package" (which does not include an amplifier). Therefore this heading has been removed and "Freestyle" and "Cinemate" have been moved up to level 1 headings. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 1292simon (talk • contribs) 01:06, 4 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Ok, I didn't think of it that way. I believe it is really important that they are kept under one grouping though. Any suggestions of a level name? -- Phoenix (talk) 05:55, 4 February 2012 (UTC)
 * I have no problem for them to be grouped together. "Amplified Speaker Packages" is the best I can think of, I'm not fussed what it's called, so feel free to change this.1292simon (talk) 07:55, 4 February 2012 (UTC)

Introduction
Previous introduction was unnecssarily long (containing information better suited to individual product sections) and evangelistic. Rewritten to be concise and neutral.1292simon (talk) 01:07, 4 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Ok so you have
 * Bose 2.1 home theatre systems began with the Lifestyle 10 CD-based system. The current range uses DVD-based systems and AV receivers are designed for use with sources (ie DVD and BluRay players).
 * I put:
 * This is a list of Bose 2.1 home theater systems. Starting in the early 1990s Bose released complete stereo systems called the Lifestyle systems. They came with Music Centers that played CDs, AM/FM radio and had analog inputs. Since then Bose has released a variety of 2.1 systems, some with built-in DVD players, like the 321 systems, others like the Cinemates that are designed with only a single input for a TV's audio out. On September 28, 2010 Bose released a 2.1 system with a Bose-designed receiver with multiple video and audio connections.
 * I believe there is room for us to work here, but a couple of things. Being an american company the spelling should be in the US standard. Two I believe that your intro can be flushed out a bit more and mine should be reduced. -- Phoenix (talk) 05:55, 4 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Ok, I'll find something in the middle. Sorry about the Brit spelling!1292simon (talk) 07:55, 4 February 2012 (UTC)

CD-Based Systems (previously "Lifestyle CD Systems")
Renamed to reflect functional grouping, which will be more widely understood than Bose's unique categorisation. Many of the specs in the tables are not notable (such as how many inputs each system has, it is not the purpose of Wikipedia to be a complete collection of specifications), notable elements have been moved to text and expanded where possible. Additional information re functionality of magazine-based systems.1292simon (talk) 01:13, 4 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Your removal of the system chart in my mind is COMPLETELY inexcusable. This information was a PAIN to find and for people that criticize that Bose doesnt release information I managed to find it. It is sourced and much like many technical information on wikipedia it has its place. -- Phoenix (talk) 05:55, 4 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Just as an aside, I don't believe the reasons above justify its inclusion, so it may well get deleted by others in future. However I will leave it as an act of good faith.1292simon (talk) 07:55, 4 February 2012 (UTC)

DVD-Based Systems (formerley 321 DVD Systems)

 * Renamed to reflect functional grouping, which will be more widely understood than Bose's unique categorisation. Also, "321" is a misleading title because the section also includes 3-2-1.
 * And the Lifestyle systems have a lifestyle DVD and CD category. That is a straw man argument. -- Phoenix (talk) 05:55, 4 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Bose's product groupings lead to more confusion than answers for the general public, so I think they are best left alone in this case. The products are named correctly, that's the main thing.1292simon (talk) 07:55, 4 February 2012 (UTC)


 * Un-notable spec tables removed, as per CD-based systems
 * Un-Notable to you. Quite notable to EVERYONE ELSE trying to find it. -- Phoenix (talk) 05:55, 4 February 2012 (UTC)
 * As above. Important info perhaps, but in line with wikipedias aims? Anyway, as above I won't remove it1292simon (talk) 07:55, 4 February 2012 (UTC)


 * Virtual surround effect reworded to more objective tone using more common terminology
 * TrueSpace section removed (definition added to text above), since virtual surround is not notable for a 2.1 HT system
 * I love the find of the link you had. But I believe that both of our versions should be flushed out some more. -- Phoenix (talk) 05:55, 4 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Not sure what link you're referring to, but thanks anyway1292simon (talk) 07:55, 4 February 2012 (UTC)


 * Progressive DVD playback is unreferenced and not notable, so it has been removed
 * I believe it is in one of the sources I provided but I'll have to find it again. -- Phoenix (talk) 05:55, 4 February 2012 (UTC)
 * I also question whether it is notable, ie was it an unusual feature for this type of system at the time? If so, then it should stay in the text. If not, then at best it should go in the spec table only. 1292simon (talk) 07:55, 4 February 2012 (UTC)


 * Remote is not "universal" since it only controls Bose products. This is covered by BoseLink text, so "universal" text removed
 * FACTUALLY WRONG!! Hence why it states that. -- Phoenix (talk) 05:55, 4 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Reference please? So did it have a "Unify" remote? I am cautious because Unify specifically talks about other brands, therefore maybe its predecessor was only for Bose products.1292simon (talk) 07:55, 4 February 2012 (UTC)


 * Functionality of BoseLink explained more clearly in a neutral tone
 * I must say I am not a fan of my version, but I must say that reading yours leaves me confused to what exactly it is or does. -- Phoenix (talk) 05:55, 4 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Ok, I'll reword for clarity. Existing text sounds like advertising 1292simon (talk) 07:55, 4 February 2012 (UTC)


 * uMusic moved to GSX section, notable content rewritten to remove advertising tone
 * Your version doent actually tell anybody anything. I would have no clue what on earth that was. -- Phoenix (talk) 05:55, 4 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Ok, I'll reword for clarity. Existing text sounds like advertising 1292simon (talk) 07:55, 4 February 2012 (UTC)

1292simon (talk) 01:35, 4 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Umh

321 Series III

 * Restructured to clearly differentiate between products
 * Added explaination for Series I to Series III naming convention
 * Good idea! I dont know why I didnt think of that. It is simple and to the point. -- Phoenix (talk) 05:55, 4 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Yet it got nuked when you reverted my entire edit. Hmmmm... 1292simon (talk) 07:55, 4 February 2012 (UTC)


 * Rewrote storage capacity to be more objective measure ("hours of music" is meaningless without bitrate)
 * That would only make sense if Bose allowed you to store music that way. It is 200 hours and no more. Not bitrate, but hours. Once you reach 200 that's it. But 70% more is good. But both should be used. -- Phoenix (talk) 05:55, 4 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Ahhh now it makes sense why I couldn't find the capacity in Gb! For people comparing systems, it would be great to know the bitrate if this info could ever be found. 1292simon (talk) 07:55, 4 February 2012 (UTC)

Freestyle

 * It is not notable for a receiver to include a remote control, so this text has been removed
 * "Freestyle 5.1 AV receiver was introduced" What receiver? Do you even know anything about the products you are editing? Do some research before you make edits. -- Phoenix (talk) 05:55, 4 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Please be more polite to other editors. Functionally, it is an AV receiver, even if Bose do not describe it as such. 1292simon (talk) 07:55, 4 February 2012 (UTC)


 * Explanation of features rewritten to use more widely understood terminology
 * Not bad, but missing some key descriptive features of the system, found in the past version. A Mesh of the two would probably work out just fine. -- Phoenix (talk) 05:55, 4 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Feel free to make a spec table if that makes you happy (as per other sections) 1292simon (talk) 07:55, 4 February 2012 (UTC)

1292simon (talk) 01:39, 4 February 2012 (UTC)

Cinemate

 * Improved explanation about how it has only 1 input and why
 * "CineMate 5.1 AV receiver" Really Again? -- Phoenix (talk) 05:55, 4 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Sorry, I don't understand what you are trying to say 1292simon (talk) 07:55, 4 February 2012 (UTC)


 * Rewritten to reduce advertising tone and to use more commonly understood terminology
 * Advertising????????
 * In 2005 Bose added a new speaker system called the CineMate. It used the same Articulated Array speakers as the 321II and much like the previous FreeStyle system it did not have the media center but a IR receiver. But this time the CineMate had only the single RCA audio connection and a universal remote control. The idea of this system was for people to connect all their video/audio sources to their TV and use the TV's RCA audio out into the CineMate.
 * Oh man is that in your face advertising or what.... I say What????? -- Phoenix (talk) 05:55, 4 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Sorry, my advertising comment was incorrect. But my revision relies less on Bose jargon, so I think it should stay. 1292simon (talk) 07:55, 4 February 2012 (UTC)


 * Removed uncited ("probably because...") speculation from Series II text
 * Yea I that shouldn't be in an encyclopedia. -- Phoenix (talk) 05:55, 4 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Thankyou for understanding.1292simon (talk) 07:55, 4 February 2012 (UTC)


 * More objective description of subwoofer level control
 * Good catch on the "AcoustiMass" I forgot that they called them that. That was phrased much better that I wrote it. -- Phoenix (talk) 05:55, 4 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Many thanks1292simon (talk) 07:55, 4 February 2012 (UTC)

1292simon (talk) 01:43, 4 February 2012 (UTC)

Lifestyle 235

 * Description of Gemstone functionality rewritten to be more objective ("pushed out and directed") is ambiguous term in room acoustics
 * Your right. Good catch :) -- Phoenix (talk) 05:55, 4 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Thankyou1292simon (talk) 07:55, 4 February 2012 (UTC)


 * System features described by functionality to clearly explain Bose jargon.
 * Do you not think that the previous section was adequately explaining Bose jargon? That was the reason for those sections in the first place. -- Phoenix (talk) 05:55, 4 February 2012 (UTC)
 * I think we need to look at each section independently because many people will just want to read about one particular product instead of the whole article1292simon (talk) 07:55, 4 February 2012 (UTC)


 * Misleading marketing statements removed (such as "convert any stereo or mono source into surround sound", it is not possible to add extra channels, rather the system is attempting to emulate surround effects by processing signal)
 * So it is your belief that it is not possible to create stereo from a mono recording? So you don't think that if it is now common place that that could be converted into 5.1? What about 3D from 2D film footage? -- Phoenix (talk) 05:55, 4 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Adding extra audio channels is in effect adding extra information. Therefore interpretation is required and the common phrase is "emulation", "conversion" is not the correct description.1292simon (talk) 07:55, 4 February 2012 (UTC)

1292simon (talk) 01:49, 4 February 2012 (UTC)

Awards

 * Moved to sections for each product
 * Why not have them in a separate location like before? -- Phoenix (talk) 05:55, 4 February 2012 (UTC)
 * I believe they are more useful when directly associated with the product that won it. Otherwise it is fragmenting info about the product.1292simon (talk) 07:55, 4 February 2012 (UTC)


 * Red Dot does not assess sound quality, this needs to be noted
 * It says design in the award. There have been a few bose systems get Best in class for sound... should they state (note that audio quality was a judging criteria for these awards and the reason it won)? It is kind of weaselie thing to do. -- Phoenix (talk) 05:55, 4 February 2012 (UTC)
 * What do you mean by "weaselie" (I do not understand the term)? The average reader is unlikely to realise that a "design" award does not indicate audio quality, hence the explanation is required. As for the opposite which you mention, if there is a quote related to the award praising the audio performance, of course it is acceptable to quote it 1292simon (talk) 07:55, 4 February 2012 (UTC)

Amplified 5.1 Packages?
Can you please use sources to back up this claim, because it is just Factually incorrect. The Cinemate has RCA inputs... That's it. If you would read the spec table that you removed (which you said you wouldn't) you would see that stated for the world to read (now can you see how handy that is). How does that make it a 5.1 AV Reciever? The Lifestyle 235 has 2 speakers and a sub... Is that 5.1? You have made many good edits and many more really really bad ones. I have noted truthfully above and am not disputing those good edits. Please use talk page for all the other edits. -- Phoenix (talk) 10:45, 8 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Please note there is a separate page for 5.1 packages (to provide more logical structure to the Bose product pages), this content will be moved there.
 * There IS a a reference for the text about Cinemate only having one. The info in the table did not have any references. On second thoughts, maybe you thought the text was implying it was a mono input? If so, I've just reworded to clarify it's stereo.
 * Woops, thanks for pointing out that 235 was in the wrong section.
 * In accordance with politeness, can you stop saying things like "you have made many good edits and many more really really bad ones" and stick to neutral discussion of content which can be improved please?? Also, I'm glad you like some of my edits, but remember you do not own these pages so it is not for you alone to approve what stays.1292simon (talk) 23:13, 3 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Yes this is not a 5.1 HT page and yet you had the 235 included with the DVD based systems... Really? Have you even bothered to research ANYTHING before you blatantly edited this page. Not only that you removed content that you said "I will leave it as an act of good faith"? Look you have to remember you have been making a lot of massive changes to these articles, and while some have been good edits, I have disputed some of them for not only for being WP:NPOV but for being just 100% false & unsourced. So please use the talk page for those edits. There is no reason to reduce these articles to become little blurbs as you have been attempting to do. -- Phoenix (talk) 23:23, 11 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Thankyou for pointing out the mistake with the 235's section,I will fix that. I have not added any unsourced claims, a lot of "my" text is just a rewrite of existing content for tone. So you believe "bigger equals better"? Well I think the concise articles which stick to notable aspects are actually more useful. I assume your vague edit summary ("rv incorrect information") refers to this. As for "...but still blatant removal of information", you need to be more specific, I have addressed your questions above in this talk page, so I don't know what you are referring to.1292simon (talk) 07:56, 12 March 2012 (UTC)
 * It turns out the problem with the 235 was just that it was a level 3 heading, instead of level 2. No need for the angry sarcasm over such a small formatting slip up. I have left the spec tables in like I said I would, not sure what you're on about here. Note that your subsequent edit (replacing "IR receiver" with the Bose jargon) would need to be explained in common terms for the average reader to understand what the device is) 1292simon (talk) 08:02, 12 March 2012 (UTC)
 * You removed all but two tables. How is that leaving them alone like you said you would? Look you have been very good at removing as much information as possible. Is there a chance that you could help wikipedia out and use the talk page. I am a reasonable person and I have made many of my objections clear. There is no reason to believe that we cannot find an amicable solution. -- Phoenix (talk) 09:15, 12 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Tables have been restored, it was accidental that the other tables got removed 1292simon (talk) 00:20, 25 March 2012 (UTC)

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 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20111125103916/http://worldwide.bose.com:80/downloads/en/assets/pdf/guides/lifestyle/lifestyle_3d_p3/en/3d_p3_en.pdf to http://worldwide.bose.com/downloads/en/assets/pdf/guides/lifestyle/lifestyle_3d_p3/en/3d_p3_en.pdf

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Propose moving article to "List of Bose home audio products"
In the recent AfD, it was suggested near the end that perhaps we should rename (aka move) the article to List of Bose home audio products. This sounds like a good idea to me. What do you guys think... do we have consensus for this? Fieari (talk) 23:58, 13 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Pinging all participants of the recently closed AFD.      Fieari (talk) 07:35, 15 December 2021 (UTC)

Ok, done! Fieari (talk) 03:38, 16 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Support this move; that is what it is. The proper way to propose a move is through the procedure at Requested moves, but I think this one can be done boldly. BD2412  T 07:39, 15 December 2021 (UTC)
 * I also support the move. Heartmusic678 (talk) 11:00, 15 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Fine with me. The list should then probably be added to Category:Consumer electronics and Category:Electronics lists. -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 12:28, 15 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Also fine with me. Thank you Fieari, for checking in with us about this. Regards, MrsSnoozyTurtle 21:32, 15 December 2021 (UTC)

BOSE WAVE MUSIC SYSTEM CD PLAYER AM/FM RADIO.      MODEL# AWRCC2
All I need are the directions on how to use the items on it. It came with no directions. Anyway you can help?? 2600:1006:B022:8441:DC31:7C5F:9954:7224 (talk) 18:11, 12 August 2023 (UTC)


 * Anyway you can reply to this?? 2600:1006:B022:8441:DC31:7C5F:9954:7224 (talk) 18:13, 12 August 2023 (UTC)
 * IS THERE ANY WAY POSSIBLE TO GET THE DIRECTIONS ON HOW TO USE THE BOSE WAVE MUSIC SYSTEM/CDPLAYER AM/FM/RADIO? AWRCC2? PLEASE RESPOND 2600:1006:B022:8441:DC31:7C5F:9954:7224 (talk) 14:57, 14 August 2023 (UTC)

Bose Wave Music System
Radio 2600:1006:B022:8441:DC31:7C5F:9954:7224 (talk) 15:00, 14 August 2023 (UTC)