Talk:List of Breath of Fire II characters

I think I can find a compromise here: I'll finish the list (which is just a cut and paste for the last 2 characters) and link the game page to this page, then have links to the specific characters from here. I don't think we want to lose the info in the individual pages, even if it is very specific. Tsunade 17:00, 4 November 2005 (UTC)
 * Actually, we do want to lose about half of it; most of it is very specific advice on using the characters' abilities in-game, or very detailed plot summary.
 * As for having standalone articles for the characters of Breath of Fire II, please read WP:FICT, and consider the fact that Advance Wars, Metal Gear Solid, and even many of the Final Fantasies have lists of characters instead of individual specific character articles. This isn't so influential a game that there's anything more to say about the characters other than their roles in the game itself, and that's the sort of thing that belongs in the BOF2 article or, failing that, a list of the characters, lending greater context. - A Man In Black (conspire | past ops) 17:07, 4 November 2005 (UTC)
 * As far as I can see, most Final Fantasies (ff4, ff6, ff7, ff8, ff9, ff10) with reasonably developed characters have BOTH lists and specific articles on each character with more information. It's clear that you want to remove this more specific information, but I don't think everyone would agree here; this has been point of contention recently. Votes for deletion on the ff6 character pages were close and failed to reach consensus, and I don't want to get into a meaningless edit war here.


 * The guidelines in WP:FICT state "If you find articles (particularly stubs) on fictional characters (and places, concepts, etc.) you may want to be bold and merge them into an appropriate article. This allows the information to become more organized and easier to access. However, if you should do so, do not delete meaningful content. You should obviously remove redundant headers ('this is a fictional character from such-and-such book by such-and-such author'), but you should not summarize or otherwise reduce the articles in question." (my emphasis)


 * First of all, these articles merged were not stubs and in total were far too long to merge into one page. I do agree that the character articles can be trimmed and pared to form tighter articles, but I think that you are summarizing and reducing the articles in question in this merge. Once this page becomes a good and tight list of characters, certain important and relevant information will be left out through arbitrary selection. The purpose of the individual character articles is to present that information in full. I think this model has been well established in ff6, ff7, ff8, etc. This game was influential in ways that were explained on the main page, and many consider BoF II to be the best game in the series. There was some excessive information in the individual articles and we need a general list, I agree there. My opinion is to have the main page direct you to the list for greater context, and then have the list break out to the individual articles.


 * Let's reach agreement here before doing any additional editing on these articles. Tsunade 20:20, 4 November 2005 (UTC)

You may want to talk to User:Seancdaug before going and implementing the FF way of doing things, especially since there's a concerted effort to change the FF way of doing things, moving from overspecific information to encyclopedic overview.

Well, let me list my main goals.
 * Replace point-by-point plot summaries with encyclopedic plot overviews.
 * Note that, previously, I could nearly get the entire story of BOF2 without ever playing the game, just from these character articles. The fact that there are spoilers isn't a problem; the fact that the story is detailed to such a level is.
 * Summarize the game mechanics rather than offering overspecific GameFAQs-style information (e.g. Such-and-such dragon transformation does X amount of damage).
 * Not have individual character articles for every bloody RPG released ever. ¬_¬

Now, I don't particularly have a problem with a Ryu (Breath of Fire) article that talks about the different interations of Ryu, and having that list reference that article, but there's really no way to plump out the articles on, say, Bow or Sten or Jean without resorting to point-by-point plot summary or overspecific GameFAQs-style game informaton. (Moreover, I'm not entirely convinced of the encyclopedic value of some of this trivia, but this is a lesser point. - A Man In Black (conspire | past ops) 20:37, 4 November 2005 (UTC)


 * In the end, it comes down to what you want to put in Wikipedia and what you want to leave out. I don't think it's unacceptable to take overspecific things out of the individual articles and leave them be, but only for Ryu, Nina, Rand, Bow, and Katt. I think one thing we can definitely agree on is merging all the other characters, minor or otherwise, into this page and keeping those redirects in place while fixing the links. I think enough on the five major characters could be written to justify their own character pages along with this merged list, which I support if it's formatted properly. The problem with a general Ryu article is that it might become too long if every incarnation is written on. I know you and Seancdaug have been pushing merging and the removal of "excessive" content with respect to video games, but I think finishing this merge and leaving the five articles existing independently is the right solution for now.Tsunade 00:09, 5 November 2005 (UTC)


 * Would you care to suggest what kind of info that isn't point-by-point plot summary or overspecific game info you would use? It may be that we agree on the important points, but disagree on easily-resolved, trivial ones.
 * I think the best way to find this out would be to use Ryu (Breath of Fire 2 character) as a test balloon. Go ahead and rewrite that into whatever form you feel the articles on Ryu, Bow, Katt, etc. should take, and I'll see if I agree (in which case we can start turning this list into a reference to the separate articles, and further discuss a general Ryu article) or disagree (in which case we'll deal with my specific salient objections from there).
 * Bear in mind, I don't feel most info is excessive, but point-by-point plot summary and specific game mechanic description is just too much. - A Man In Black (conspire | past ops) 00:27, 5 November 2005 (UTC)


 * Good idea, I'll try that. Generalizing the Nina and Ryu articles might be a good idea if I can reduce it enough; I'll see how much content I can come up with. I'll begin work tomorrow - Tsunade 03:45, 5 November 2005 (UTC)


 * Anyone still interested? I'd want to work on individual pages only for the party members, leaving the rest into Minor lists. How can Ray, Patty and Valerie have ind. pages while every party member (aside from Ryu, Nina and Deis) not?...Also, more things from BoF, BoFIII and BoFIV wouldn't hurt, I mean other Capcom titles have ind. pages and all (Slammaster for ex.), why not share some love for the BoF series? (Johnny Master 20:56, 15 April 2006 (UTC)).

Aspar
According to the official page for the Gameboy Advance version, his name is アスパー, which is read "asupaa" or "Aspar". It's written out that way on this page and always has been. Please do not change it so that it says his name is Aspara without hard evidence. ~ Oni Lukos ct 00:29, 21 April 2006 (UTC)