Talk:List of DSiWare games (PAL region)

Game & Watch DSiWare titles: no confirmed release outside Japan yet
The main source for the Japanese information has been the Japanese G&W DSiWare section of Nintendo.co.jp so far, and Joystiq, Vooks, and IGN all clearly state that there is no word on the Game & Watch games' release outside of Japan yet. We can all assume they'll bring them over, that's kinda likely, but until there's something official confirming their western releases, we should hold off on adding those games to this article. -- Khisanth (talk) 15:02, 15 July 2009 (UTC)

re: speedy deletion
I'm going to assume that both this page and List of DSiWare games (North America) both have the same fundamental problem -- they're both separated out by point value, which (if I've read policy correctly) is not something that Wikipedia likes to have listed or focused upon. However, having the game lists themselves separated out by region makes it easier for users in those regions to see what has and has not yet been actually released for them yet, and what specifically may be upcoming or will never be released. If this were one long list of games, like List of WiiWare games (North America) and List of WiiWare games (PAL region) (both articles vs. List of WiiWare games), would it be acceptable? -- Khisanth (talk) 20:17, 12 August 2009 (UTC)

On a side-note, why was I notified? I didn't create this page... is it even my place to be arguing to allow it to be changed before deletion? If not, I apologize for placing the   tag. ^^;;; -- Khisanth (talk) 20:21, 12 August 2009 (UTC)
 * I notified the article's creator, User:Uaqboost. I also notified Khisanth, since s/he made significant changes to the page.
 * I suggest that the page meets the criteria for speedy deletion since, according to its lead section, it is "a list of games and applications for the Nintendo DSi handheld game console available for download via the DSi Shop." That is, it serves only to promote a product or service. A listing of goods available is inappropriate if it serves only to promote those goods. See WP:Criteria for speedy deletion. Cnilep (talk) 20:34, 12 August 2009 (UTC)

User:Fabrictramp has suggested, at User talk:Cnilep, that the page does not appear to be obvious advertisement. I'm repeating my reply here, so that others may comment and possibly enlighten me.
 * Let me preface this by saying that I don't use console games, so forgive me if I misunderstand concepts such as "shops" and "prepaid points".
 * According to Nintendo DSi, "The Nintendo DSi is able to connect to an online store called the DSi Shop. Using a Nintendo Points Prepaid Card (previously known as Wii Points Prepaid Card), users are able to download DSiWare games and applications to the internal memory of the DSi system." List of DSiWare games (PAL region) is, according to its lead section, "a list of games and applications for the Nintendo DSi handheld game console available for download via the DSi Shop in the PAL region." Unless I'm mistaken, this serves only to help would-be customers of the DSi Shop purchase items, thereby promoting DSi Shop. Cnilep (talk) 20:46, 12 August 2009 (UTC)
 * As I mentioned before, as it stands now the article is separated out by point values, which may easily be fixed by lumping everything into one big PAL-region list. However, your comment about this article helping only users of the DSi to purchase things has me confused; if the problem isn't actually with the point values being listed, I must admit that I don't understand what you think is wrong with this list. Are you saying that we must wait for the system to be dead or to become obsolete before cataloguing the games that came/come out for it? There are countless other lists of video games that perform the same function as this list; the only problem is that DSiWare is downloadable content only, which must be clearly stated in order to differentiate DSiWare from any upcoming DSi-only retail releases.


 * by its very nature, DSiWare is only downloadable from the DSi Shop, just like WiiWare from the Wii Shop Channel, Xbox Originals from the Xbox Live Marketplace, and downloadable games from the PlayStation Store (though those don't have any cute names so far as i know, like 'PSXWare', lol). The only difference between this and (some) other video game lists on Wikipedia is that these games are not available for sale at retail. If there is another way the intro for this article should be worded in order for it to be more encyclopedia-like, please feel free to help us to change it. -- Khisanth (talk) 21:34, 12 August 2009 (UTC)
 * First, note that speedy deletion has been declined.


 * I do think that point values are somewhat problematic. The bigger problem, though, is that this page, as well as pages such as List of DSiWare games (North America), List of WiiWare games, etc. are not encyclopedic, they are shopping aids. That seems somehow contrary to WP:What Wikipedia is not, especially WP:NOTDIRECTORY. I think rather than discuss this within the format of a deletion discussion, though, it might be better to initiate a discussion of all these sorts of pages at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Video games. I'm thinking about how to frame that discussion now.


 * Note, too, that I have not been involved in discussions or editing of video game-related pages. I happened upon this page while patrolling new pages from the backlog. It struck me as spam-like and unencyclopedic. It may not strike members of WikiProject Video games as problematic, though. Cnilep (talk) 23:07, 12 August 2009 (UTC)
 * I have begun a discussion of the various DSi / Wii list pages at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Video games/Cleanup. Please join the discussion there if you have further thoughts on how to handle these pages. Cnilep (talk) 00:48, 13 August 2009 (UTC)