Talk:List of Detroit Red Wings players/Archive 1

Proposed changes
Proposed changes: -Rejectwater (talk) 19:55, 8 August 2013 (UTC)
 * 1) Update tables to comply with MOS:DTT - in order for the page to comply with the Manual of Style.
 * 2) Eliminate use of "Appeared in a Red Wings game during the 2011–2012 season".  Outdated, high maintenance costs.
 * 3) Fix various sorting issues.  Sorting doesn't work at all, isn't enabled in the goaltenders table.
 * 4) Add "Number retired by Red Wings", signified by double dagger.  Is relevant and easy to maintain.
 * 5) Eliminate nationality column.  Serves no purpose, is outside the scope of the page.
 * 6) Add "Inducted into the Hockey Hall of Fame", signified by up arrow.  Is relevant and fairly easy to maintain.
 * 7) Eliminate the notes column.  Cougars and Falcons are the same franchise as the Wings.  HHOF can be signified by up arrow.   Possibly note number of cups with number of daggers?
 * 8) Update the captions.  Some contain information that is no longer true.  Some introduce material that is outside the scope of the page.
 * 9) Update the stats.  Captain Obvious strikes again.
 * 10) Expand and revise the lead.
 * 11) Add alt text to every image per WP:ALT
 * Number one is a good move and probably needs to be done universally to all of the player list FLs


 * Done.Rejectwater (talk) 19:55, 8 August 2013 (UTC)
 * 2. If no one is going to keep it updated during the season than it does lose a bit of usefulness and i don't see any issue with removing it


 * Done. Rejectwater (talk) 19:55, 8 August 2013 (UTC)
 * 3. I'm not sure what's going on with the sorting. The set up is the same as the Panthers and Canucks pages that have the sort as well as some of the others and they have no issues with the sort. I'll take a look and see if I can figure out what's going on


 * I am working on this as it seems it should be non-controversial, however it appears the "Notes" column may have to be deleted in order for sorting to work. There's something weird going on with sorting getting pushed over one column. Rejectwater (talk) 22:34, 7 August 2013 (UTC)
 * I was seeing some errors in the sorting, I changed the to — it didn't seem to work on the first preview so I ended up coping the header row from the Panthers page. The changes seems to have fixed the sort, though I think you can probably put the header back the way it was.--Mo Rock...Monstrous  (leech44) 00:54, 8 August 2013 (UTC)
 * I think and — are essentially the same thing, but the header row is the real fix.  That should be left as is.  *However*, if the Notes column is deleted, it will work with the "Regular season" and "Playoffs" headers on top. Rejectwater (talk) 13:02, 8 August 2013 (UTC)
 * That's what I thought, but then I looked at a page where I had used the and it wasn't working. Of course instead of investigating that page more closely I thought that parameter was the problem, not one of my better decisions. The issue with the notes column is the rowspan= function coming after the split. I don't know enough to figure out if there is a way to have this working after the listings on top. I played around with it for a bit, but couldn't get it to sort right. If the rowspan= is removed it sorts fine with the other headers on top, but it only uses either the top or the bottom of the larger cell depending on how it is organized.

I wasn't sure where to put this, but since you have changed it to a sortable table it might not be a bad idea to use the first last function to list the names as we traditionally read them and still have them sort properly. I know that was asked for the Sharks page when it went up as an FLRC.
 * Should be done. Rejectwater (talk) 21:18, 8 August 2013 (UTC)
 * 4. Regarding the additional information and the symbols and the removal of the notes column. I think its a good I deal to add all of the info like retired jersey and HOF. IMO it would be better to put that info into the notes and not use multiple symbols. With a list of this size it helps to not have to refer back to the key and using some many symbols can clutter up the name column for guys like Yzerman. Plus the notes section allows for more info such as the number retired and the year of the Cup wins.


 * How do you feel about the DC and DF for Cougars and Falcons? I don't get it- they're all the same franchise.  I think the clutter problem exists no matter how we do it.  A few symbols takes up less space.  I know what you're saying though:  "Yzerman, Steve†††".  I still like that better than the notes column however, especially since most notes cells are blank.   Rejectwater (talk) 13:02, 8 August 2013 (UTC)
 * I don't think the DC and DF are needed like you say they are the same franchise.

As for the notes vs. Symbols, IMO the notes allow for more info like:

HHOF - 2009

SC - 1997, 1998, 2002

Ret # 19

I know it does take up more room, but if I don't pay attention to the key when I hit one of these guys with multiple symbols I'm forced to scroll all of the way back to the top, which I find annoying. Plus right now all of the players with retired jerseys are shown in the image so it helps to find out what number they wore. I will get a bit outdated when Lidstrom's number is retired, we know he was #5, but someone new to the sport looking through the Wings players might not. I also think the multiple symbols is more visually obtrusive. Obviously this is my opinion and if you think its better to go with the symbols I'm not going to revert it.
 * I think what you have proposed works great- you are volunteering to update it? :)  Rejectwater (talk) 10:25, 9 August 2013 (UTC)
 * 5. I have no issues with the removal of the nationality column, but it is a constant across all hockey related lists. and wouldn't surprise me if someone came through and re-added it.


 * It is very common, and I don't get it. It kind of makes sense in a list like List of Detroit Red Wings draft picks, but I don't see the relevance here.  When a player plays for a pro team he isn't representing his country.  It doesn't pass MOS:FLAG.  Also the linking of the country names is overlinking: "the names of major geographic features and locations".
 * I don't understand it either. Really more of a heads-up. I worked on an all-star game page and didn't put in nationality on the list of players, since it was fantasy draft rosters and not North America vs. World format, and someone came in and added the nationalities.
 * I probably won't delete it, but the flags and the links are definitely going. Rejectwater (talk) 17:19, 8 August 2013 (UTC)
 * 6. If the captions are outdated than they need to be changed.

Just my thoughts. If you looking for a wider consensus you might want to open something up on the WP:ice hockey page. Cheers --Mo Rock...Monstrous (leech44) 23:15, 7 August 2013 (UTC)

Status of changes:
 * 1. Update tables to comply with MOS:DTT - in order for the page to comply with the Manual of Style.
 * Done.
 * 2. Eliminate use of "Appeared in a Red Wings game during the 2011–2012 season". Outdated, high maintenance costs.
 * Done.
 * 3. Fix various sorting issues. Sorting doesn't work at all, isn't enabled in the goaltenders table.
 * Done.
 * 4. Add "Number retired by Red Wings", signified by double dagger. Is relevant and easy to maintain.
 * Added to notes column.
 * 5. Eliminate nationality column. Serves no purpose, is outside the scope of the page.
 * Revised the nationality column, Kept due to being common throughout project.
 * 6. Add "Inducted into the Hockey Hall of Fame", signified by up arrow. Is relevant and fairly easy to maintain.
 * Kept as denoted in notes column.
 * 7. Eliminate the notes column. Cougars and Falcons are the same franchise as the Wings. HHOF can be signified by up arrow. Possibly note number of cups with number of daggers?
 * Kept revised notes column. Eliminated DC and DF as redundant.
 * 8. Update the captions. Some contain information that is no longer true. Some introduce material that is outside the scope of the page.
 * Done.
 * 9. Update the stats. Captain Obvious strikes again.
 * Done.
 * 10. Expand and revise the lead.
 * Lead still needs work.
 * Done.
 * 11. Add alt text to every image per WP:ALT
 * Not done yet.
 * Done. Rejectwater (talk) 15:06, 10 August 2013 (UTC)
 * 12. Update the Notes column with new format.
 * In progress.
 * Done

Rejectwater (talk) 13:23, 10 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Everything is done. Stick a fork in it. Rejectwater (talk) 13:44, 11 August 2013 (UTC)