Talk:List of Dragon Ball Z Kai episodes/Archive 1

Possible "Did you know..." hooks
-- Goodraise (talk) 01:30, 29 April 2009 (UTC)
 * ... that Goku, the main character of Dragon Ball Kai, dies in the series' third episode?
 * ... that Dragon Ball Kai, the 2009 revision of Dragon Ball Z, features a re-recorded voice track by the original cast?
 * ... that in Dragon Ball Kai the story of Dragon Ball Z will be cut down to only one hundred episodes?

Today's edits
There has been an influx of edits to this page after it was moved to article space. I have reverted some of them. I will explain my reasons in the following.


 * I have restored the longer plot summaries. Yes, I know that they are up to 35% too long. I will eventually cut them down to an adequate size myself, if no-one beats me to it. In the meantime, having summaries that are too long is better than having summaries that are too short. (See also next bullet.)


 * I have re-added the cite episode-footnote that cites Goku's death. Yes, citations are not needed in plot summaries for episodes. However, WP:DYK demands a citation right after every possible hook, no matter if that citation is required from the article's perspective. Please leave it (as well as the mention of Goku's death in the third summary) in until either the DYK nomination is rejected or the list is taken off the main page.


 * I have not restored the (admittedly unencyclopedic) airtime/program-block trivia, but I'd like to ask for care not to reduce the lead's prose to less than the 1,500 characters required by DYK. During several revisions that limit was breached.

Regards, -- Goodraise (talk) 20:01, 29 April 2009 (UTC)


 * I agree on the restoration. While they need cutting, they were cut a little too sharply. DYK is actually demanding a citation on an episode summary? That's being a bit too picky IMHO *ugh* The lead issue can't really be helped. It should not be "fluffed" with inappropriate content or excessive wordiness (which is really has now) just to meet a DYK requirement. -- AnmaFinotera  (talk · contribs) 20:27, 29 April 2009 (UTC)

Notability
Has it been confirmed that this series will differ in anyway from the original series beyond just Graphical and Musical updates? Because if it is not going to, than what reason is there to create this list of episodes that will be basically the same as the episodes in the other Dragon Ball lists? Frankly Dragon Ball Kai, keep its own section in the Dragon Ball page, but not an episode list that is essentially the same as another episode list. DBZROCKS  Its over 9000!!!  20:43, 29 April 2009 (UTC)


 * It appears it will since they cut the original down to only 100 episodes, added new graphics, and redid much of the dialog so that it better matches the manga. As such, from discussions on the main DB page, Kai is presumed to be a different series. Having never watched any of the DB series, I can't say if the first four episodes hold up to this presumption, though.--  AnmaFinotera  (talk · contribs) 20:54, 29 April 2009 (UTC)
 * That seems to work then, but if they are doing this by simply cutting episodes than this will probably not need its own list. If merges episodes together, than this list is completely fine in being here. DBZROCKS   Its over 9000!!!

Template
How can you call it a redundant template? Not everybody who visits the list is going to know or understand why certain places feature rows of squares where text should be. Sarujo (talk) 21:37, 30 April 2009 (UTC)


 * In this case, it's obvious from the context. In all other cases nihongo is the superior way of explaining it. The only reason this template is still used at all is that some editors still add it to articles and nobody cares enough to remove it from articles it is on. See also this discussion. Good raise  22:12, 30 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Well I thought it was good idea at the time. Oh well, I just remove the others. Sarujo (talk) 23:52, 30 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Yep, awhile back consensus basically said the template was unnecessary and redundant, but it is still sometimes seen on pages in need of cleanup. In general, though, it should be removed where found, not added elsewhere. -- AnmaFinotera  (talk · contribs) 01:48, 1 May 2009 (UTC)

Assessment statis
The list current assessment statis is C failing B1 for lack referencing and citation. I've manged to add decent amount references, yet it still fails B1. So I take it that the list need more references? What is it needing to help it pass B1? Sarujo (talk) 18:59, 9 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Does source four cover all of the sentences in the first paragraph after the one sourced by source 3? If so, then the only thing I can see missing a reference are the last two sentences of the last paragraph of the lead. -- AnmaFinotera  (talk · contribs) 21:03, 9 May 2009 (UTC)


 * 3, pretty much. There also the mention of the statement that restoration was produced by tracing over existing frames from the site We Remember Love which discusses the restoration process and features a YouTube video titled ghostlightning does in-between animation work for dragonball z high definition. Showing the site owner Ghostlighting, while visiting at in-between animator Joey Hernandez's office at Toei Animation's Filipino branch, working on a frame featuring Goku. As you may have noticed, I have not used the site as reference because I feared that it was deemed unreliable.


 * 15 can be used for the statement on Kenji Yamamoto's involvement on the project, but could be reworded as Yamamoto's involvement with franchise is not limited to just video games.


 * There was also another article in March 2nd's Shonen Jump that I really wanted to use for as source for the statment on the theme songs, but I don't know what the page numbers are.


 * The statement on the the introductions and eyecatches using different animation methods, is referring to the fact that they use rich higher contrast colors and more detailed character design stylings than what can be seen in the story footage. Which are identical to the promotional artwork found in Jump magazines and the official website. Sarujo (talk) 23:52, 9 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Okay, so ref 3 covers most of the first paragraph? And correct on the YouTube video unless it is an official video on an official channel (otherwise its copyvio :P). -- AnmaFinotera  (talk · contribs) 00:41, 10 May 2009 (UTC)


 * So there is an exception to YouTube now?


 * Yes, number three is pretty much there. As follows:
 * The show would be receiving an extensive "refresh" for Japanese television brodcasting and would help commemorate of the 20th anniversary of Dragon Ball Z. While based on the original animation production, it was being updated with new technology. The frames have been extending to conform to a 16:9 display. The original Japanese cast would return to re-record diologue for the show, and the Sound effects would be updated. Unlike the story footage, the OPs and EDs were going to be completely redone. The show would premiere on April 5, 2009 9AM. Sarujo (talk) 01:30, 10 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Official videos posted by companies on YouTube have always been allowed as reliable sources, as far as I know. I've used them in GA film articles from RHI Entertainment. It has to, however, actually be clear it was posted by the official company and is not just a bootleg or someone's personal posting to ensure it does not violate copyright. For the rest, I'd go ahead and do the appropriate additions of the named refs to make this clearer. -- AnmaFinotera  (talk · contribs) 02:09, 10 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Is this enough, or am I missing something? Sarujo (talk) 01:40, 13 May 2009 (UTC)


 * From what I understand of the above discussion, there is nothing left requiring citation. Looking at the article, I don't see anything either, so I'm raising the assessment to B-class. Good raise  14:22, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

Oh my, it appears that you've dropped it to C. Are there any problems? Sarujo (talk) 19:52, 8 October 2009 (UTC)


 * There is a citation needed in the lead and the last airdate is uncited as well. Good raise  20:29, 8 October 2009 (UTC)


 * Sorry about that. As that source doesn't usually update until Tuesday, it's very easy for to forget about adding it to the next episode. Sarujo (talk) 20:49, 8 October 2009 (UTC)

Plot Summaries
I propose that we shorten the plot summaries for the individual episodes. My logic is that there will eventually be 100 listed here and the current summaries seem a bit long for an article of such length. Even the seasonal list of Bleach Episodes, which contain only twenty or so episodes each have a plot summary that is at the most, four sentences. I believe that we should shorten the current plot summaries to about three or so sentences. DBZROCKS  Its over 9000!!!  20:28, 21 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Per guidelines, they should be between 150-300 words. The longest summary here is only 125 words. So really, most of these are too short. I would, therefore, disagree with shortening them beyond basic standard prose tightening as part of a general copyediting practices. The number of episodes isn't really relevant to the length of the summaries.-- AnmaFinotera  (talk · contribs) 20:47, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Where are these guidelines? I would like to know for future reference. DBZROCKS   Its over 9000!!!  20:56, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Episode lists are covered by WP:MOSTV (and correction, 100-200, with upwards of 350 depending on the complexity of the story). -- AnmaFinotera  (talk · contribs) 00:22, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

Mon. Jun. 15, 2009: For the plot summaries, I think they should be edited using the original Japanese names. This show is not from the US or dubbed for US airing yet, so it should stick to the original things until it might be dubbed. Maybe at the bottom of the page you can have a "Names" section where we tell what those names are from the FUNimation dub. - DBZfan_29 —Preceding unsigned comment added by DBZfan29 (talk • contribs) 03:18, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
 * For consistency, the official English names are used throughout the articles. -- AnmaFinotera  (talk · contribs) 03:19, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

Exactly. While some may prefer to use Japanese names personally (myself included), the localized English names are to be used in the English Wiki. The Japanese can be used by the Japanese. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.91.141.58 (talk) 20:06, 27 July 2009 (UTC)


 * Hey guys, just wondering if you'd let me continue editing the DB Kai episode summaries (I created this account in order to try to get permission to continue). I've done the past few and gone back and edited many of the others to shorten the length and fix grammatical errors. I'm usually the first one to post the edits as I tend to watch the episodes as soon as they are shown. If you could grant me access to continue that would be great - Housemasta ** —Preceding unsigned comment added by Housemasta (talk • contribs) 03:13, 11 August 2009 (UTC)


 * You'll have to wait until the page is unlocked due to the issues below. Right now, no one can edit the page except admins. -- AnmaFinotera  (talk · contribs) 11:12, 11 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Ok well if the issue doesn't get resolved, let me know and I can forward the summaries I write to an admin. If not, and have to wait, then I will. -- Housemasta 13:58, 11 August —Preceding unsigned comment added by Housemasta (talk • contribs) 17:59, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

Trimming of Scenes
Not only was much of the filler material cut, but also the scenes were heavily trimmed. E.g.: the first 3 Kai-Episodes cover events from the first 5 Z-Episodes. Since this is, I believe, a the major reason why the Episodesare cut down to less then half of the original run (291 --> 100!!! Can´t be just the fillers), I think it´s worth mentioning. 87.174.249.105 (talk) 21:36, 27 June 2009 (UTC)


 * We can only state what is said in reliable sources. None of the RS have mentioned anything beyond what has already been said. -- AnmaFinotera  (talk · contribs) 21:40, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
 * What about having seen some of the Episodes? There is a german website, where the Episodes can be watched (japanese dub, german subtitles). 87.174.253.102 (talk) 06:23, 1 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Having seen an episode is enough for writing a summary of the episode. That is what we are doing (here on Wikipedia). We are summarizing sources. What you are proposing is looking at the DBZ episodes and the DB Kai episodes and comparing them. We cannot do that. Good raise  06:57, 1 July 2009 (UTC)