Talk:List of French supercentenarians/Archive 1

Categorization
Anyone want to think about categorizing them by gender?

I noticed BrownHairedGirl added some of the 2nd oldest woman in France. If we decide on adding them perhaps they can be categorized below the oldest woman in France. Neal (talk) 20:15, 17 November 2007 (UTC).


 * I have ordered them by date of birth.
 * This not a "list of the oldest people in France", it is a list of French supercentenarians, who may or may not have been the oldest people in France. There is of course no reason why someone cannot create a List of the oldest people in France, offering a table which shows who followed who. Individual name entries can be linked to this list, or to individual articles if they exist. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 18:48, 18 November 2007 (UTC)


 * I put that list into this article. Neptune 5000  ( talk ) 19:18, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

Templates for regions
Can someone help fix the links to flags for regions? Thanks. Ryoung 122 13:30, 8 January 2009 (UTC)

Flags for Martinique, Guadeloupe
Can someone change the flags for Martinique and Guadeloupe from the national French flag to the local "region" flag? Ryoung 122 11:40, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

Maiden names
Shouldn't these people be listed as for example Marie-Clémentine Judith Solignac née Veyrac?

As far as I know, placing a maiden name in the middle is an American thing. It's certainly not used in Britain, which uses née instead, which is derived from the French language. So I assume that France uses this system too. Can anyone clarify? SiameseTurtle (talk) 19:36, 14 December 2008 (UTC)


 * They should be listed by the name the outside sources use. Since the media reported her as "Clementine Solignac", this seems appropriate. Ryoung 122 11:42, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

Marie Audy
Greetings,

Here's a citation for Marie Audy:

http://www.sudouest.com/dordogne/actualite/article/551835/mil/4373941.html

Ryoung 122 08:31, 10 April 2009 (UTC)

Marie Coulon
I'm not sure how reliable this is, but Marie Coulon is now on the list of French super-cs born in 1898:

http://www.francaiscelebres.com/1898.html

Mathilde AUSSANT Née le 27/02/1898 inconnu Troisième des français les plus âgés.

Marcelle NARBONNE Née le 28/03/1898 inconnu Quatrième des français les plus âgés.

Marie COULON Née le 04/04/1898 inconnu Cinquième des français les plus âgés.

Marie-Thérèse JEGAT Née le 02/06/1898 jegatmarietherese Sixième des français les plus âgés.

Aline BESLAY Née le 17/06/1898 INCONNU Septième des français les plus âgés.

Jeanne BERGET Née le 13/07/1898 inconnu Huitième des français les plus âgés.

Hélène CARRION Née le 14/10/1898 j Neuvième des français les plus âgés.

Ryoung 122 01:41, 19 February 2009 (UTC)


 * "Given that Marie-Therese Jegat turned out to be Bardet, Marie Coulon is surely Marie Audy"


 * Comment: That's absurd...April 4 1898 and March 29 1899 aren't the same day, month, or year...and Marie is a very common name in France. Ryoung 122 01:31, 22 April 2009 (UTC)

A fair point. However it is also absurd to allow Coulon and Carrion on the French page without citations, but chastise User:Pascar for adding the likes of Grazia Carbonaro on the Italian version. Pistachio disguisey (talk) 01:40, 22 April 2009 (UTC)


 * There is a difference...firstly in the Carbonaro case, there was no claim made to 110+, it was to 109 a year ago...that is not the case with Coulon and Carrion which have citations (posted above) dating after their 110th birthday...so you are confusing two issues. Ryoung 122 01:44, 22 April 2009 (UTC)

That site does not appear to have a date, so whilst it may be accurate, I don't think that it is acceptable as a citation. Pistachio disguisey (talk) 01:56, 22 April 2009 (UTC)

The people section
Could we remove the "people" section, as it is more of a bunch of "grab bag" information than an actual list? ~  one of many editorofthewikis ( talk / contribs / editor review ) ~ 19:44, 10 October 2008 (UTC)


 * I think we should remove the people section, as most of the biographies are stubs anyway. Neptune 5000  ( talk ) 20:05, 10 October 2008 (UTC)


 * I recently posted a few points about the people section at Talk:List of supercentenarians from the United States. I do not feel the people sections should just simply be removed. I think in some cases, some people ought to either be improved, or taken off the list, and others should probably have their own article. Some are simply too brief and are often just a collection of facts (such as "x became the oldest in the world in y, and was the last born in 1878"), without any prose about their life. Unless they were very notable cases, I don't think it's entirely necessary to have their own section. However I've tried to add information and citations where I can, but this tends to be for British cases due to the information I have access to. SiameseTurtle (talk) 20:08, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Why shouln't they be removed? If they deserve their own article, fine, start one. If they are not notable, remove. If it is just a collection of facts, remove too, as that is present in other superc lists. ~  one of many editorofthewikis ( talk / contribs / editor review ) ~ 20:13, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Because some are highly notable, but their subsections have very little information. They would effectively be permastubs. The advice there seems to be 'If possible, merge them into a larger article'. That's what's been done. SiameseTurtle (talk) 20:36, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
 * If they are so notable, then why can't we create articles for them instead of this disgracefull mess? ~  one of many editorofthewikis ( talk / contribs / editor review ) ~ 22:05, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Some have very short articles, such as Ada Roe on the British page. She was the oldest in the world. For her, I would probably say that she deserves her own article. However for Daisy Adams and Rebecca Hewison who were 'only' oldest in the UK, I'm not so sure. What do we do with articles similar to those who were fairly notable, but have little information to make a worthwhile article on them?
 * Unfortunately this field seems to conflict with WP's policy of notability not being temporary. Notability in this field increases over time. I removed Charlotte Gibson from the British page a while ago and I was just thinking about giving her an article to herself. However, she was 2nd oldest in the UK, died at 110 and unfortunately even if I did move the article there, it's not going to get linked to. What I think we should do is have a section on these list pages for living supercentenarians. That way we can build up their article, and if they die 'young' (ie around 110!), and/or didn't get to a strong state of notability (eg. oldest man/woman in country), then they could be removed. If they do become quite notable, then they could be moved to their own article. Of course this would have to be judged case by case. Any deceased notable cases would be linked through the tables. SiameseTurtle (talk) 00:01, 12 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Again, if enough verifiable info can be found on these people, we can give them an article. Lazare Ponticelli was originally a redirect to this and now, after about a month of work, is a featured article. This should be list, not permastubs of articles that no one bothered to create. ~  one of many editorofthewikis ( talk / contribs / editor review ) ~ 00:57, 12 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Comment. I think you are way off-base here. The whole purpose of "merging" is that some persons might be notable, but not enough for a stand-alone article. It makes sense to have some biographical information where it is available. I would agree with removing such non-bios as "person X was the oldest person in the UK for years 19XX to 19XX and is the XYth oldest person in the UK ever." Such "cruft" isnt't really necessary. However, in many cases we have actual biographical information...some of these were world's oldest persons (such as Florence Knapp) and as such their notability will stand the test of time (in truth, some of these are not perma-stubs but stubs that can still be expanded, if someone bothered to do the work). If others fade over time, and are removed, then that's O.K. It's called "editing." But to carte blanche remove everyone goes against the plan worked out by Carcharoth, BHG, and many others. Note this isn't simply limited to just supercentenarians, either...as discussed in Nov 2007, other topics also are composed of mini-bios... Ryoung 122 02:54, 12 October 2008 (UTC)


 * I suggest turning the "people" section into a table, and losing the "succession boxes". The predecessor and successors can be mention in a notes section, along with links to the relevant lists. That should tidy things up a lot. No need to lose any information, except the more trivial stuff or stuff where there is no actual biographical information. Carcharoth (talk) 03:10, 12 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Comment. Perhaps a bit COI, but I believe this data is best expressed in two ways: 1. mathematical/demographic; and 2. human interest. I would suggest for the former to create a list of every validated supercentenarian in the nation (for France, less than 90 persons). Then, about 10% of the articles, maybe 15%, can have an additional mini-bio (about a paragraph or two). In other words, a mini-bio for Camille Loiseau, who lived to 114, was France's oldest person, and the oldest verified person born in the year 1892, worldwide. Any person whose bio has an angle that is interesting/unique (Jean Teillet, first Frenchman to reach 110) could have one. On the other hand, no mini-bio for cases for whom no information other than age facts are known, or whose "achievement sheet" is notably lacking. If someone died as the 14th-oldest person in France, no mini-bio. Also, while a standalone article requires multiple independent sources, for a mini-bio we should be able to come up with at least one source that gives some biographical detail. Let's finish construction of the mathematical table, and then go back and decide which 10 or 15 cases, maybe 20 at most, warrant additional facts. Wikipedia is not paper but there must be a reasonable expectation that anyone with a mini-bio is at least somewhat unique and notable. Ryoung 122 08:23, 12 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Comment Part II.

Greetings,

First I'd like to go back to Nov 2007 or so. Here is what I proposed:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Ryoung122#suggested_compromise_on_supercentenarians

The understanding was that links would be used for biographies. However, the problem was that a wiki-war broke out over "notability," and some articles were under threat of deletion (even if NOT a perma-stub and had references, such as Camille Loiseau). Part of this is due to Wiki-bias in favor of presentism and in favor of English-language material. Note, for example, a person may be covered in a French newspaper, but then what? The compromise was that each mini-bio may not be individually notable, but as examples on a list, could be. In reality, it's simply not a good idea to push an either/or solution when a merger is a real solution. This is not unique to supercentenarian articles. For example, consider THIS:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Buffy_the_Vampire_Slayer_characters http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Buffy_the_Vampire_Slayer_characters

It was decided that each character alone was not individually notable, but would warrant a paragraph or two of material in a merged list-format.

Sincerely, Robert Young Ryoung 122 08:44, 12 October 2008 (UTC)


 * A problem with listing all supercentenarians from each country will inevitably be the long list. The UK has just gone over 100, so that table alone would be as long as the '100 oldest people' list (let alone the USA list). Then there's the list for the oldest living, the records, and chronological list of the oldest. If we were to list all of them, a different article for mini-bios will have to be made. SiameseTurtle (talk) 14:25, 14 October 2008 (UTC)

After looking at the Sunderland Echo page, maybe we could have a collapsable table with all the cases on? Or perhaps that would require too much updating of living cases. Just a thought anyway. SiameseTurtle (talk) 17:50, 13 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Comment: the "people" section is useful and of interest. While some people like statistics, others like a human-interest story. There is a need for balance here. The problem is NOT the people section. The problem is that there needs to be some standards employed. Ryoung 122  02:18, 26 January 2009 (UTC)
 * If the person actually has a decent biography and is notable then they should have their own article. If not then it's hardly a human-interest story. An article based more around tables allows linking to articles of specific people. It's too much to expect to list every supercentenarian from one country on a single page even if you do only include those who are more notable. SiameseTurtle (talk) 19:54, 22 April 2009 (UTC)


 * I think there's too much focus on statistics per se. Even a one-paragraph entry may provide enough information for someone to double-check a case in the census, or at least get a sense that this is 'real' and not just some top-down 'because I said so.' Transparency is a problem with TARP, no need to make it a problem here. Ryoung 122 22:23, 22 April 2009 (UTC)

Mathilde Aussant

 * Mathilde Aussant was born in 1898. Dr. Coles is 67 years old and he sometimes makes mistakes. Ryoung 122 03:15, 7 March 2009 (UTC)


 * Correction: Dr. Coles is 68 years old (note the irony of the correction!). Ryoung 122 01:45, 22 April 2009 (UTC)

She now lives in Centre region, département Loir-et-Cher in Morée Please, keep this change, if you insist she lives in Pays-de-la-Loire, add references. => the regions and departments are place of last residence!!! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 18:50, 28 September 2009 (UTC) (talk)

Marie-Louise Mueller
Is listed twice (one in the main list and once in the emigrant list). Ryoung 122 08:42, 27 October 2009 (UTC)

Emigrant list
1. How can you consider people born in the French Empire, and later died in France as emigrants? 2. You cannot shove all immigrants and emigrants together. If we did that on every page, then any supercentenarian had moved country or where there was a border change during history would not count as a national on any page. It biases the pages in favour of those who never moved country. SiameseTurtle (talk) 17:45, 19 January 2010 (UTC)

Giovanna Meyer-Zittel
From what I understand, she was born in Alsace (then part of Germany) and lived there when it reverted to France, before later moving to Italy. I think the point of the "emigrant" list is sort of a "footnote" section. We shouldn't exclude people completely because they moved around a lot. It also doesn't matter to me if, for example, we have an "emigrant" who moved from the UK to the U.S. listed in the UK list and the US list. I think it's one thing to want an addenda list; it's another to delete persons entirely. Ryoung 122 05:52, 21 March 2010 (UTC)

GRG Validated List Has 106 persons (not inc. emigrants)
I noticed the list in the current form has only 102 persons, but the GRG list has 106 (108 inc. emigrants):

VERIFIED SUPERCENTENARIAN CASES- CHRONOLOGY	FRANCE as of Mar. 6, 2009	 	 	Age	 	 	 	place of		Three or More Documents (three-stars)1 nation	name	born	died	years	days	R	S	death 1	France	Marie-Virginie Duhem	Aug. 2, 1866	Apr. 25, 1978	111	266	W	F	France 2	France	Jean Teillet	Nov. 6, 1866	Mar. 17, 1977	110	131	W	M	France 3	France	Caroline Campistron	May 27, 1867	Mar. 2, 1978	110	279	W	F	France 4	France	Frederique Noel	June 19, 1868	Apr. 14, 1979	110	299	W	F	France 5	France	Augustine Teissier	Jan. 2, 1869	Mar. 8, 1981	112	65	W	F	France 6	France	Annette Faron	Feb. 15, 1869	May 12, 1979	110	86	W	F	France 7	France	Elisa Esnault	Dec. 10, 1870	Apr. 25, 1981	110	136	W	F	France 8	France	Eugenie Roux	Jan. 24, 1874	June 20, 1986	112	147	W	F	France 9	France	Jeanne Calment	Feb. 21, 1875	Aug. 4, 1997	122	164	W	F	France 10	France	Lydie Vellard	Mar. 18, 1875	Sept. 17, 1989	114	183	W	F	France 11	France	Marie-Louise Jeancard	Sept. 5, 1876	Nov. 25, 1988	112	81	W	F	France 12	France	Marie-Celine Maisonniaud	Oct. 26, 1876	June 17, 1987	110	234	W	F	France 13	France	Marie Mougin	June 25, 1877	Nov. 17, 1987	110	145	W	F	France 14	France	Josephine Choquet	June 6, 1878	Feb. 14, 1991	112	253	W	F	France 15	France	Mathilde Gauchou	Mar. 19, 1879	Dec. 30, 1990	111	286	W	F	France 16	France	Henri Perignon	Oct. 14, 1879	June 18, 1990	110	247	W	M	France 17	Guadeloupe (FR)	Felicite Jandia	Feb. 12, 1881	Dec. 7, 1992	111	299	B	F	Guadeloupe (FR) 18	France	Pauline Chabanny	Aug. 20, 1881	Aug. 13, 1994	112	358	W	f	France 19	France	Marie-Louise Antelme	Dec. 28, 1881	Feb. 19, 1992	110	53	W	F	France 20	France	Maria-Anna Higelin	Nov. 18, 1882	Mar. 21, 1994	111	123	W	F	France 21	France	Juliette Baudouin	Feb. 19, 1883	Aug. 24, 1993	110	186	W	F	France 22	France	Marthe Bellecour	Apr. 18, 1883	Aug. 4, 1993	110	108	W	F	France 23	France	Marguerite Petit	July 3, 1883	Dec. 21, 1995	112	171	W	F	France 24	France	Marie Bouvier	Nov. 26, 1883	Dec. 30, 1993	110	34	W	F	France 25	France	Marie-Therese Cau	Jan. 9, 1884	Feb. 21, 1994	110	43	W	F	France 26	France	Zoe Verot	Feb. 15, 1884	Jan. 4, 1996	111	323	W	F	France 27	France	Celestine Colombeau	Feb. 17, 1884	May 9, 1996	112	82	W	F	France 28	France	Sophie Dernoncourt	May 9, 1884	June  7, 1994	110	29	W	F	France 29	France	Nouria Hutin	July 12, 1884	Aug. 23, 1994	110	42	W	F	France 30	Algeria (FR)	Emile Fourcade	July 29, 1884	Dec. 29, 1995	111	153	W	M	France 31	France	Bernard Delhom	July 9, 1885	Feb. 7, 1996	110	213	W	M	France 32	Spain	Elisa Cubells	Aug. 20, 1885	Nov. 16, 1995	110	88	W	F	France 33	France	Marie-Helene Chanteperdrix	Mar. 5, 1886	Mar. 9, 1998	112	4	W	F	France 34	France	Jeanne Dumaine	Mar. 19, 1886	Jan. 3, 1999	112	290	W	F	France 35	France	Marie Bremont	Apr. 25, 1886	June 6, 2001	115	42	W	F	France 36	Guadeloupe (FR)	Luce Maced	May 2, 1886	Feb. 25, 2000	113	299	B? F	Martinique (FR) 37	France	Jeanne Colas	June 9, 1886	Oct. 15, 1998	112	128	W	F	France 38	France	Maria Bigue	Sept. 10, 1886	Mar. 12, 1998	111	183	W	F	France 39	France	Maria Laborie	Apr. 26, 1887	Nov. 22, 1997	110	210	W	F	France 40	France	Henriette Megevand	June 24, 1887	Jan. 7, 1999	111	197	W	F	France 41	France	Melanie Dormois	July 8, 1887	Dec. 13, 1997	110	158	W	F	France 42	France	Alexandrine Renaud	Sept. 8, 1887	Jan. 18, 1998	110	132	W	F	France 43	France	Berthe Sadron	Feb. 18, 1888	Feb. 27, 1999	111	9	W	F	France 44	France	Louise Mallet	Mar. 8, 1888	Mar. 9, 2000	112	1	W	F	France 45	France	Marie-Louise Lambert	Apr. 9, 1888	Dec. 11, 1999	111	246	W	F	France 46	France	Juliette Merceron	Apr. 23, 1888	Sept. 16, 1998	110	146	W	F	France 47	France	Marie Fastayre	May 17, 1888	May 30, 1998	110	13	W	F	France 48	France	Marie-Louise Thurneyssen	Aug. 21, 1888	June 27, 1999	110	310	W	F	France 49	France	Germaine Haye	Oct. 10, 1888	Apr. 18, 2002	113	190	W	F	France 50	France	Marthe Denis	Dec. 7, 1888	May 20, 1999	110	164	W	F	France 51	France	Jeanne Violette	Jan. 12, 1889	Nov. 27, 1999	110	319	W	F	France 52	France	Marie-Isabelle Tuffal	Jan. 14, 1889	Nov. 12, 1999	110	302	W	F	France 53	France	Elizabeth Seube	Apr. 8, 1889	Mar. 6, 2000	110	333	W	F	France 54	France	Marie Combeleran	June 8, 1889	May 23, 2001	111	349	W	F	France 55	France	Anna Boulet	June 28, 1889	Oct. 19, 1999	110	113	W	F	France 56	France	Anne-Marie Hemery	July 25, 1889	Mar. 6, 2000	110	225	W	F	France 57	France	Blanche Marie Grosdidier	Oct. 3, 1889	Oct. 10, 2001	112	7	W	F	France 58	France	Clothilde Roy	Oct. 23, 1889	Oct. 13, 2001	111	355	W	F	France 59	France	Adeline Soboul	Feb. 8, 1890	Mar. 6, 2000	110	27	W	F	France 60	France	Alexis Daigneau	Aug. 4, 1890	Apr. 3, 2001	110	242	W	M	France 61	France	Anne Primout	Oct. 5, 1890	Mar. 26, 2005	114	172	W	F	France 62	France	Jeanne Samson	Nov. 5, 1890	Dec. 4, 2000	110	29	W	F	France 63	France	Pauline Sevaille	Nov. 20, 1890	Aug. 29, 2002	111	282	W	F	France 64	France	Marguerite Bellion	Feb. 12, 1891	Jan. 29, 2002	110	351	W	F	France 65	France	Yvonne Bory	Mar. 14, 1891	Aug. 7, 2003	112	146	W	F	France 66	France	Camille Loiseau	Feb. 13, 1892	Aug. 12, 2006	114	180	W	F	France 67	France	Jeannette Gayraud	May 12, 1892	Mar. 31, 2004	111	324	W	F	France 68	Reunion (France)	Julia Sinedia-Cazour	July 12, 1892	Oct. 6, 2005	113	86	B	F	Reunion (France) 69	France	Fanny Bruel	Mar. 18, 1893	Mar. 29, 2005	112	11	W	F	France 70	France	Germaine Stadler	Mar. 29, 1893	Feb. 14, 2005	111	322	W	F	France 71	France	Marthe Ardouin-Schmid	July 12, 1893	Aug. 13, 2003	110	32	W	F	France 72	France	Lucie Pere-Pucheu	Aug. 13, 1893	Apr. 6, 2006	112	236	W	F	France 73	France	Marthe Gojon	Nov. 1, 1893	Nov. 28, 2004	111	27	W	F	France 74	France	Marie-Simone Capony	Mar. 14, 1894	Sept. 15, 2007	113	185	W	F	France 75	France	Marie Mornet	Apr. 4, 1894	Jan. 5, 2007	112	276	W	F	France 76	France	Marie-Louise Bernede	Apr. 6, 1894	Dec. 11, 2005	111	249	W	F	France 77	France	Clementine Solignac	Sept. 7, 1894	May 25, 2008	113	261	W	F	France 78	France	Marie Vigne-Ben Cimon	Sept. 23, 1894	Dec. 7, 2004	110	75	W	F	France 79	France	Agnes Fagoo	Dec. 19, 1894	Apr. 12, 2007	112	114	W	F	France 80	France	Maurice Floquet	Dec. 25, 1894	Nov. 10, 2006	111	320	W	M	France 81	Guadeloupe (FR)	Mathilde Octavie Tafna	Mar. 16, 1895	May 1, 2007	112	46	B	F	Guadeloupe (France) 82	Germany (Alsace)	Catherine Trompeter	Mar. 26, 1895	Nov. 18, 2006	111	237	W	F	France (Alsace) 83	France	Constance Cariou	May 8, 1895	Aug. 29, 2007	112	113	W	F	France 84	New Caledonia (FR)	Marie-Louise L'Hullier	June 26, 1895	Dec. 28, 2007	112	185	W	F	New Caledonia (France) 85	France	Mathilde Rouene	Aug. 13, 1895	May 20, 2006	110	280	W	F	France 86	France	Jeanne Vuillemot	Sept. 23, 1895	Jan. 3, 2006	110	102	W	F	France 87	Guadeloupe (FR)	Eugenie Blanchard	Feb. 16, 1896		114*		W	F	lives in Guadeloupe (France) 88	France	Madeleine Delmotte	Apr. 20, 1896	Mar. 31, 2007	110	345	W	F	France 89	France	Olympe Pidancet	Jan. 24, 1897	Feb. 19, 2009	112	26	W	F	France 90	France	Aime Avignon	Feb. 2, 1897	Aug. 23, 2007	110	202	W	M	France 91	France	Marie Rouch	May 29, 1897	Oct. 27, 2007	110	151	W	F	France 92	France	Louise Bontemps	June 13, 1897	Nov. 6, 2007	110	146	W	F	France 93	France	Marcelle-Jeanne Colas	July 28, 1897	Mar. 11, 2008	110	227	W	F	France 94	France	Louis de Cazenave	Oct. 16, 1897	Jan. 20, 2008	110	96	W	M	France 95	France	Jeanne Bonnard-Rochet	Nov. 29, 1897	Nov. 29, 2007	110	0	W	F	France 96	Italy	Lazare Ponticelli	Dec. 7, 1897	Mar. 12, 2008	110	96	W	M	France 97	France	Mathilde Aussant	Feb. 27, 1898		112*		W	F	lives in France 98	France	Marie-Therese Bardet	June 2, 1898		111*		W	F	lives in France 99	France	Aline Beslay	June 17, 1898	May 6, 2009	110	323	W	F	France 100	France	Jeanne Berget	July 13, 1898	Mar. 6, 2009	110	236	W	F	France 101	France	Helene Carrion	Oct. 14, 1898	June 5, 2009	110	234	W	F	France 102	Guadeloupe (FR)	Ismene Baffard	Oct. 24, 1898	Mar. 4, 2009	110	131	B	F	Guadeloupe (France) 103	France	Marie-Madeleine Hellio	Nov. 7, 1898	Jan. 5, 2009	110	59	W	F	France 104	France	Marie-Louise Renier	Nov. 21, 1898	Jan. 5, 2009	110	45	W	F	France 105	France	Marie Lemoigne	May 31, 1899	Jan. 31, 2010	110	258	W	F	France 106	France	Jeanne Gagnard	Oct. 29, 1899		110*		W	F	France emigrant cases 1	France	Marie-Rose Mueller	Sept. 20, 1896	Nov. 5, 2007	111	46	W	F	U.S. (CT) 2	Germany (Alsace)	Jeanne Rose Meyer Zettel	Dec. 6, 1896	Jan. 12, 2007	110	37	W	F	Italy

I'm not sure who is missing, but this can be reviewed. Ryoung 122 05:56, 21 March 2010 (UTC)


 * Upate: I did it myself. Ryoung 122 08:30, 21 March 2010 (UTC)

French pending cases
Greetings,

Since the Italy and UK lists have added "pending" cases, I might add some of these GRG-pending French cases below:

Two Documents (two-star) 1	France	Marie Margueritte Robert	Jan. 9, 1893	Oct. 19, 2003	110	283	W	F	France 2	Algeria (FR)	Jeanne Hue	Oct. 2, 1895	May 5, 2006	110	215	W	F	France 3	France	Mathilde Gratry	May 12, 1896	Jan. 10, 2008	111	243	W	F	France 4	France	Fernande Revel	Sept. 2, 1898	Oct. 12, 2008	110	40	W	F	France 5	France	Marie Audy	Mar. 29, 1899	Nov. 24, 2009	110	240	W	F	France One Document (one-star) 1	France	Marie Grosclaude	Oct. 15, 1897	Dec. 20, 2007	110	66	W	F	France 2	France	Josephine-Jeanne Faure-Geors	Jan. 30, 1899	Apr. 1, 2009	110	61	W	F	France

If someone else wants to add them, just remember NOT to assign a numeral to them and use a color-coded blue background. Ryoung 122 08:32, 21 March 2010 (UTC)

Anne Primout
Please STOP REMOVING ANNE PRIMOUT. "ALGERIA" WAS "PART OF FRANCE" IN 1890 (1890-1962) AND A FRENCH COLONY, 1830-1890. Ryoung 122 18:42, 11 May 2010 (UTC)

Helene Cazes moved from "pending" to "validated."
http://supercentenarian-research-foundation.org/TableE.aspx Ryoung 122 19:56, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

Denise Fétrot
Why isn't Denise Fétrot (born 27 January 1898 in Résigny, Aisne - died 15 July 2008 in Liart, Ardennes) a pending case ? Has she been unvalidated or has nobody given a single document to begin the validation of her case yet ? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.112.84.98 (talk) 21:58, 17 June 2010 (UTC)

Marie Davit-Piacentino
Born in Italy and died in Australia, but she lived the middle part of her life in France, which is why her case came from French statistics. Ryoung 122 07:27, 25 August 2010 (UTC)

What is appropriately encyclopedic content for longevity related biographies
There is currently a discussion about what constitutes encyclopedia content on longevity related biographies at Talk:Gertrude Weaver please comment. I am One of Many (talk) 19:08, 11 July 2014 (UTC)

Marie Brudieux
Please review listing, as Mme. Brudieux has been added to the list of verified Living French Super-Cs, and is about three months older than Olympe Amaury. This link refers.

http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marie_Brudieux

Heartfelt thanks. Auto. Auto wrote 2043/06 October 2014. 81.159.208.88 (talk) 20:43, 6 October 2014 (UTC)

Philippe Vocanson
Dead: 17 or 18 January 2015. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.126.168.8 (talk) 22:10, 19 January 2015 (UTC)
 * This needs a reliable source before it can be added to the page. Ca2james (talk) 23:16, 19 January 2015 (UTC)

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Regions of birth and of death
Hello,

The choice of the region is curious because there aren't official regions in France before 1960's and the new regions were born the 1st January 2016. The regions in the page are the regions between 1960's and 2015. There are other errors: Instead of regions, chose departments like French pages is more coherent. What do you think ? GabrieL (talk) 14:32, 21 April 2016 (UTC)
 * Eugénie Blanchard was born in Saint Barthélemy but when at her birth, Saint-Barthélemy was an area of Guadeloupe;
 * Marie-Rose Mueller was born in the territoire de Belfort (traditional area of Alsace before Revolution but in Franche-Comté since 1960's);
 * Henri Pérignon, errors for regions of birth and of death.
 * I was coming to the talk page to say the same thing. It is totally anachronistic to see people born in the 19th century assigned to regions that did not exist until 1982. Switching to departments would bring some stability (few departments were created beyond the Napoleonic ones), as well as being more precise geographically. Of course, we'll have to find sources stating their place of birth and death; the GRG tables cited in the article have no such information. Let's get working. — JFG talk 00:26, 21 October 2018 (UTC)
 * I have added journalistic sources for a dozen people. Lots more work to do… See if you can help. — JFG talk 07:24, 21 October 2018 (UTC)

Delete Chronological list of the oldest living person
The Chronological list of the oldest living person in France needs to be re-deleted because it is a WP:INDISCRIMINATE WP:SYNTHESIS of original research. This list has been cobbled together over many years from a range of sources, mainly people pulled from GRG tables, and is clearly a syntheses of original research. The list is also indiscriminate because while individual people are labeled the oldest person in France in the press, there is not a source proving that such a compilation as found here is a notable topic, and not a passing fancy turned into fancruft. It's not a notable list like a list of French Kings. Either way, this section needs to be deleted. Newshunter12 (talk) 23:20, 8 November 2018 (UTC)


 * Agreed. It is blindingly obvious that this is entirely OR and nothing more than typical longevity fanfluff. DerbyCountyinNZ  (Talk Contribs) 01:03, 9 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Agreed. Majority of the names are sourced to a table that's over ten years out of date so is bound to be full of errors. And most of rest of the sources don't actually mention that the person was oldest from death of previous according to Google translate. Smells of WP:OR. To confirm errors, look at the source for Olympe Amaury, it says she got the "title" from a Marie Brudieux but the Wiki table says "Suzanne Burrier" and Marie isn't even mentioned at all in this article. I've tagged the sources as failed verification that don't mention the previous title holder if that helps the discussion. CommanderLinx (talk) 08:52, 9 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Concur with the above, for all the same reasons. The Blade of the Northern Lights ( 話して下さい ) 16:34, 9 November 2018 (UTC)

Very unreliable. Legacypac (talk) 17:09, 9 November 2018 (UTC)

Emigrants
The article currently has separate lists for French residents and French emigrants. However, the subject matter is "French supercentenarians", so that the places they have moved during their life should not matter to their nationality as French people and ranking as supercentenarians. Therefore I suggest merging the list of emigrants with the main list of 100 oldest French people ever. — JFG talk 08:14, 8 December 2018 (UTC)

✅ — JFG talk 06:58, 9 December 2018 (UTC)
 * Presumably everyone born in France is (or was) French so a merger makes sense. Breaking them out as a seperate list is not very useful and seems to promote those few names as special. Legacypac (talk) 12:47, 8 December 2018 (UTC)
 * I fully agree with Legcypac and the nom. It makes the most sense to merge the sections together. Newshunter12 (talk) 12:59, 8 December 2018 (UTC)

Joseph Rabenda
With this edit, you removed Joseph Rabenda. Why? The sourced 2016 article states that he was once France's oldest man. Was his birth date proven false since then? — JFG talk 10:29, 26 April 2019 (UTC)


 * What’s the qualifier to add him to a “verified” table? He hasn’t been verified, nor is he a recent case waiting to be verified as footnoted.TFBCT1 (talk) 16:14, 26 April 2019 (UTC)
 * He was duly noted as unverified. This is a "list of French supercentenarians", not "list of French supercentenarians verified by the GRG". — JFG talk 22:16, 26 April 2019 (UTC)
 * I have restored him. — JFG talk 20:26, 17 May 2019 (UTC)

RfC: Defining the 100 known oldest people

 * The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Should this list enumerate the 100 known oldest French people as reported by various reliable sources (proposed change), or should it assign a ranking only to GRG-validated people, and keep other entries unnumbered (status quo)? — JFG talk 07:55, 2 June 2019 (UTC)

Rationale
This rationale is mirrored from the recent RfC about the oldest Italian people.

The oldest people from France are being tracked by various sources: news reports on birthdays and deaths, articles and studies about longevity, and various special interest groups and forums. A prominent tracker of supercentenarians worldwide has been the Gerontology Research Group (GRG), which maintains a network of correspondents in several countries dedicated to discovering and validating cases of extreme age. The present article, and various others, have been historically largely sourced to the GRG's public lists of supercentenarians by nation, and a usual practice has developed of assigning a ranking only to persons that have been validated by the GRG. However, since 2016, GRG correspondents in most countries have stopped documenting people under 112 years old, so that recent cases are mostly sourced from newspaper reports; this is apparent when sorting our list by death date. As a consequence, this list is giving undue prominence to cases that were documented earlier, while newer cases are unranked, including most of the living people on the list. On the other hand, we have ample and adequate journalistic sourcing for many elder French, and few cases are actually disputed in this country. Accordingly, we should re-number the list to include all well-sourced cases, irrespective of whether they are listed by the GRG. The list would then be current and truly represent the "100 oldest ever" French people. In its current state, it would stop at Catherine Soiron, 111 years 184 days, currently ranked 81st, who would become 100th if we gave a ranking to everybody. The proposed change is also in line with general Wikipedia policy, whereby all relevant WP:RS should be considered in order to enhance our coverage of any particular topic area. — JFG talk 07:55, 2 June 2019 (UTC)

Survey
''Please express your preference with Support (for ranking all well-sourced people) or Oppose (for ranking people from GRG only) and a brief rationale. Longer comments should go to the section below.''
 * Support There is adequate journalistic sourcing for many elder Frenchmen and the GRG's sharply decreased number of validations makes this a necessary change. The page no longer functions using the GRG alone. Newshunter12 (talk) 05:01, 11 June 2019 (UTC)
 * Support There is no preference in WPP for a single source, and logically it would seem GRG has to rely on old records just like anyone else. If there is a controversy, report it in DUE weight, but do not limit the sources.  Cheers Markbassett (talk) 05:00, 12 June 2019 (UTC)

Discussion
There was not much participation, but given the unanimous support here and at the Italian RfC (with a lot more editors chiming in), I have implemented the proposal. — JFG talk 00:05, 12 July 2019 (UTC)


 * The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Calment not really disputed
Hi, I edited this following the decision on Talk:List of the verified oldest people, but I can't manage to add a footnote like there. Please help. Thanks, Yann (talk) 10:18, 1 September 2019 (UTC)

Ranking update
This article needs a ranking update. Thanks Timothy McGuire (talk) 21:03, 2 February 2020 (UTC)

Félicité Jandia (née Ajax)
Félicité Jandia's entry was sourced to a 2007 GRG table for France, which in turn stated the data was added on 7 May 2002. But according to INSEE's official death database for 1992, she died two months earlier on 7 October 1992, not on 7 December, so that her age no longer belongs on the top 100 list. GRG also listed her erroneously in Guadeloupe, whereas she was born and died in Martinique per official records. I have therefore erased her entry and restored a previously removed person, Juliette Trimaille, as #100. — JFG talk 12:43, 5 April 2021 (UTC)

Move discussion in progress
There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Supercentenarians in the United States which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 11:49, 1 August 2021 (UTC)

Proposal to merge Valentine Ligny's article with this article.
In my opinion Valentine Ligny doesn't meet notability guidelines: 3rd oldest European, 7th oldest globally with no reason apart from being extremely old to give her any reason to have a stand-alone page. Therefore, I am proposing that her page be merged with this one. MattSucci (talk) 07:33, 7 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Yes, a mini-bio would probably suffice, similarly to Marie Brémont. — JFG talk 21:25, 7 August 2021 (UTC)

There's nothing in her article that justifies a mini bio. DerbyCountyinNZ (Talk Contribs) 23:13, 8 August 2021 (UTC)

I totally agree with Derby, but I thought that a merger and mini bio would be a possible compromise after NemesisAT unilaterally denied my suggestion that her page be deleted. MattSucci (talk) 04:57, 9 August 2021 (UTC)
 * That user seems to have habit of declining PRODs without much consideration. DerbyCountyinNZ  (Talk Contribs) 06:07, 9 August 2021 (UTC)

JFG says a mini-bio is adequate. Derby says she doesn't merit anything. Personally, I lean towards Derby's point of view. If nobody else has a problem with this, and seeing as an arbitrary number of editors isn't required for consensus, I believe her page can be added to Afd, correct? MattSucci (talk) 14:05, 10 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Yes. DerbyCountyinNZ  (Talk Contribs) 06:59, 12 August 2021 (UTC)

To be honest, I'm out of my depth with the whole Afd procedure while using my cell phone, and I won't have laptop access for at least a week. If someone can make the necessary edits, I would be grateful, otherwise I will do it as soon as possible. Regards, MattSucci (talk) 16:38, 12 August 2021 (UTC)