Talk:List of German actors/Archive 1

More recent discussion
On 15 August 2006 this list survived (for the time being, I should say) a nomination to be deleted (see Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of Bengali (yes, Bengali) actresses). Below you can find additional thoughts (copied from the talk page of the nomination for deletion). &lt;KF&gt; 18:24, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

From Talk:List of actors from Germany (October 2005):

I do realize that with the creation of List of German actors (from 1895 to the present) (which had been listed at Pages needing translation into English) we now have two lists of German actors and actresses. I also realize that the recently created one is long and under certain circumstances might fall prey to deletionist efforts ("unmaintainable", "We like our lists short and sweet" etc. &mdash; I had such an experience only yesterday with List of song titles phrased as questions).

As I see it, there are various courses of action for the future (deletion is not one of them though):

(1) Maintain the status quo and keep two separate lists. (They are cross-referenced anyway.) (2) Merge the two lists. (3) Merge all names which already have articles into one list and keep the rest (all the red links) separately for future reference, as a repository for ideas for future articles.

Any ideas or comments?   10:50, 31 October 2005 (UTC)


 * (No reply.)


 * I'd be curious to learn why this page has been "userfied" rather than "projectified" to WikiProject Films. In the second case, at least a minority of Wikipedians&mdash;those interested in German film&mdash;would be able to work on the list whereas editing a user subpage is seen by most people as an intrusion of privacy. Needless to say, the whole idea of removing the list from the main space based on one or two outsiders' votes is most ridiculous. See also Talk:List of actors from Germany. I don't even know where to put these lines. All the best, User:KF 21:01, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

I think Articles for deletion/List of Bengali actresses is not the right place to discuss German actors, but that's what User:Agent 86 has requested.

The List of German actors (from 1895 to the present), much more appropriately titled "Liste der Darsteller des deutschsprachigen Films" on the German Wikipedia (User:Austronaut actually suggested renaming the page "List of actors in German movies" or "List of German speaking actors"), was compiled there and then imported. Since then it has been carefully maintained, expanded and updated by a relatively small number of contributors. Now, for some reason I cannot even start to fathom, some people want it deleted. "For consistency", as Agent 86 put it? Is consistency his/her, or Wikipedia's, ultimate goal?

He/She says that "no consideration had been given to the encyclopedic value of these lists." Well, that depends on how we define "encyclopaedic". If the word means "providing information to those who seek it", the list in question certainly is "encyclopaedic". It offers users at a glance a survey of chronologically ordered names, even specifiying whether actors active during the Weimar years later worked in the BDR or the GDR. What is more, it gives potential contributors a chance to see, also at a glance, which articles are still missing (and there are lots and lots!)&mdash;something the Category:German actors can never achieve.

Personally, I don't mind if this particular list is deleted&mdash;I've made a copy, so I can access, and use, it any time I want. But I think that's beside the point. I'd want all users, including future and potential ones, to be able to benefit from that list. The simplest argument against deletion would be that it doesn't do any harm, but there is much more to it really, as I've tried to point out.

Also, though I'm not really in favour of slippery slope arguments, I'm afraid more and more lists which do serve a purpose will be nominated for deletion. (Just some months ago, someone even nominated the alphabetical List of people.) Finally&mdash;but that's another matter altogether&mdash;I'm against the deletion procedure where "Keep"s and "Delete"s are simply counted but no attention is paid to the weight of the arguments presented.

By the way, I had no idea that Articles_for_deletion existed, so thanks for pointing that out to me. So it may not be illegitimate, but I still find it unsuitable: Some voters will want to see all lists deleted, others only some of them. How is this problem going to be dealt with? &lt;KF&gt; 00:17, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

Older talk

 * A little story from wikipedia.de


 * http://www.vrs-ev.de/forum/themaschau.php?p=4260#4260


 * to be continued ?


 * What on earth is that supposed to mean? What "little story"? The link you have provided contains incoherent, unintelligible drivel:


 * "Der Tag ist noch jung - aber die schamlose Kinderbande hat sich schon an deutschem Kulturgut vergriffen (30000 Bits - Hau weg den Scheiss!)"


 * "Wie konnte ein freundlicher älterer Herr nur in diesen Sauhaufen geraten? Ob MutterErde vielleicht doch nicht genug aufgeklärt hat?"


 * "Was tun? MutterErde exportiert dieses interessante Nachschlagewerk erstmal nach Amerika (wo es liebevoll gepflegt wird). Weitere Exporte sind vorgesehen."


 * "Mittlerweile ist auch Markus Schweiß eingetroffen &mdash; und pfriemelt sich ein Diskussionsergebnis nach eigenem Geschmack zurecht. Sogar der arme Herr Idler musste bei seiner zweiten Durchsicht weichen."


 * etc. etc.


 * Do you expect anyone &mdash; even if their German is very good &mdash; to be able to make sense of the above?


 * If you want to contribute to this discussion, please do so in a sensible way.   18:29, 1 November 2005 (UTC)


 * Sure I expect that German speaking people will understand that "little story". It means, that Germans , who never had contributed to that list, want to delete it. (30000 bits!).

BTW.1:I do it my way ( Frank Sinatra) :-). And I will contribute to that list as long as I can.

BTW 2: Thank you for your engagement. Greetings from ME, currently banned but willing to (what means "entsorgen"?) entsorgen the fakers - without regarding their status. see hu:User vita:MutterErde.12:04, 2 November 2005 (UTC)


 * I still haven't got the foggiest notion what you are talking about. By looking at the corresponding page on the German Wikipedia I found out that there are a few people who'd like to see that list deleted. The only reason given (because there are so many red links in the list) is an exceptionally stupid one, and I hinted at that in the Löschdiskussion or whatever you call it.


 * All the rest is still a mystery to me:
 * (1) How come Germans "never contributed to that list"? If they didn't, who did? Or rather, who created it in the first place?
 * (2) What's wrong with "30000 bits"?
 * (3) Does your reference to that Sinatra song mean that you'd like to keep the list on the German Wikipedia?
 * (4) Who is "ME", and why has he/she been banned?
 * (5) Why are you referring me to the Hungarian Wikipedia?
 * (6) Who are the "fakers", what have they faked, and why is ME willing to get rid of them? What "status" are you referring to?
 * (7) Who are you? Have you got a user name on the German Wikipedia?


 * Next time by all means write in German and I'll translate it. Best wishes,   17:59, 2 November 2005 (UTC)


 * Eijeijei, hier geht ja einiges durcheinander... und ich dachte schon ich sei schon fast berühmt.Pustekuchen :-)
 * Also erstmal zu 1) 2) 3).- zur Liste:
 * Dass irgendwelche Kindsköpfe in de die Arbeiten fremder Leute mit fadenscheinigsten Begründungen -wenn überhaupt- löschen wollen, ist die Regel.Ich würde derlei zum Komplex German Krankheit oder auch PISA rechnen.Hier sind sie nur besonders dreist, weil diese Liste über 30000 bits gross ist. Natürlich bin ich ein Behalter - und darüber hinaus sorge ich dafür, dass etliche gelöschte Artikel dieser Preisklasse sich als Kopien munter in aller Welt verbreiten. Immer in der Hoffnung,dass sich der ein oder andere ein bisschen schämt, dass Ausländer jetzt diese Liste haben und die Deutschen vielleicht nicht mehr lange. Aber die (meisten) schnallen derlei überhaupt nicht mehr. (ad  4:ME ist MutterErde) Und das wiederum hat auch mit dem langjährigen Regiment von Skriptor(de) zu  tun, der sich gerne Kinder und unreife Menschen herangezogen hat um seine Macht zu sichern. Zur Zeit führt Skriptor allerdings nur eine Schattenexistenz .Grund: Jimbo  Wales hat ihn doch noch rausgeworfen (leider nur inoffiziell) - zusammen mit MutterErde (en), die gerne den Finger auf die Wunde legte und weiter legen wird .MutterErdes Rauswurf allerdings unter einem fadenscheinigen Vorwand- und deshalb (ad 5:) der Verweis zur ungarischen  MutterErde-Seite wo das alles in epischer Breite nachzulesen ist. (ad 6:) Die Faker nennen sich Kelly Martin und Jimbo Wales, die ich ohne Respekt vor ihrem Rang/Status entsorgen , sprich de-sysopen möchte. Natürlich weiss ich selbst, dass es noch ein gutes Stück Arbeit ist den Chef loszuwerden - dennoch bin ich voller Zuversicht. Und mal ehrlich: Schafft sich wp Ruhm mit einem Faker an der Spitze? Ich denke nicht. Solltest Du nach dieser Einführung nochmal nach hu zappen wollen , versäume nicht dir auch den Link zur Benutzersperrung Mutter Erde (de) nochmal anzusehen. Sie spricht für sich selbst.Grüsse (ad 7) Mutter Erde 11:17, 3 November 2005 (UTC)

Hier noch als Service eine Kurzversion der Fälle:MutterErde(de+en) für den eiligen Leser in 4 Links:
 * 1.de:Wikipedia:Benutzersperrung/Archiv/Mutter Erde ,
 * 2.Schweißens sogenannte Belege :-))
 * 3a.Jimbo´s little fakers,
 * 3b.Act1 ,
 * 4.Justinc:Fair Use


 * Danke! Endlich kenne ich mich so halbwegs aus! Im Übrigen ist es ja nicht so, als ob es in der englischsprachigen Wikipedia keine Leute gäbe, die meiner Ansicht nach enzyklopädische Artikel gelöscht sehen wollen (und auch schon gelöscht haben). Was gegen eine halbwegs umfassende Liste deutschsprachiger SchauspielerInnen einzuwenden ist, kann ich nicht nachvollziehen. Allerdings gibt es hier natürlich ganz andere Prioritäten, also wird in naher Zukunft nicht allzu viel geschehen (nehme ich an). Ich kann hier nicht mehr viel tun, werde aber die Liste im Auge behalten, während ich an anderen Artikeln arbeite. Liebe Grüße, 


 * PS If anyone unable to understand the above discussion is interested in a translation I'll be happy to provide one. In that case, please notify me on my talk page. Thanks.   14:55, 3 November 2005 (UTC)

Rename to List of Actors in German movies or of German speaking actors
Although it is stated in the intro of the page, I still think the title of the entry is misleading. --Austronaut 13:24, 27 March 2006 (UTC)


 * Isn't the German language rather than any other criterion the prerequisite to be mentioned in this list? The other thing is the reference to film: Have there ever been any stage actors/actresses who never appeared in at least one or two movies or television movies? In other words, could any actor/actress who has ever acted in German be included? &lt; K  F &gt;  17:30, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

Anhang: de:Garbaty Cigarettenfabrik: Zigarettensammelbilder
In der Serie "Gallery of Modern Beauty" gab es insgesamt 300 Sammelbilder. Allerdings waren darunter manche der "Schönen" mehrfach vertreten. Die Sammelbilder unterschieden sich dann durch die Randgestaltung. Folgende, hier in der Reihenfolge der Seriennummerierung aufgelisteten "Schönen" aus dem 19. Jahrhundert und 20. Jahrhundert konnte man sammeln:

Käthe von Nagy, Brigitte Helm, Marta Eggerth, Greta Garbo, Lilian Harvey, Marlene Dietrich, Renate Müller, Lil Dagover, Jenny Jugo, Anny Ondra, Magda Schneider, Marianne Hoppe, Hilde Weibner, Gerda Maurus, Trude Marlen, Annabella, Dorit Kreysler, Dolly Haas, Dorothea Wieck, Camilla Horn, Jarmila Novotna, Karin Hardt, Gretl Theimer, Elissa Landi, Rosita Moreno, Madeleine Carroll, Katharine Hepburn, Helen Hayes, Dolores Del Rio, Mae West, Ginger Rogers, Sybille Schmitz, Brigitte Horney, Truus van Aalten, Christl Mardayn, Hanna Waag, Maria Andergast, Friedl Sandner, Ursula Grabley, Hilde von Stolz, Ehmi Bessel, Marian Marsh, Maria Sorensen, Anita Mey, Vilma Beckendorf, Ellen Frank, Susi Lanner, Maria Meibner, Erika Fiedler, Ery Bos, Clara Bow, Janet Gaynor, Conchita Montenegro, Anna May Wong, Heather Angel, Meg Lemonnier, June Lang, Sylvia Sidney, Jeanine Crispin, Carsta Lock, Sabine Peters, Carola Hohn, Grit Haid, Eliza Jliard, Baby Gray, Olga Tschechowa, Friedel Schuster, Lucie Englisch, Marieluise Claudius, Margo Feist, Maria Beling, Dita Parlo, Elsa Merlini, Charlott Daudert, Marianne Winkelstern, Margot Wagner, Genia Nikolaiewa, Jane Carr, Toby Wing, Pat Paterson, Claire Trevor, Claudette Colbert, Patricia Farley, Helen Twelvetrees, Evelyn Venable, Miriam Hopkins, Were Liessem, Mady Christians, Elisabeth Wendt, Lien Deyers, Maria Paudler, Betty Bird, Maria Sazarina, Reva Holsey, Lissy Holzschuh, Joyce Compton, Jeanette MacDonald, June Knight, Norma Shearer, Myrna Loy, Joan Crawford, Joan Bennet, Carole Lombard, Jean Harlow, Betty Amann, Hilde Hildebrandt, Else Elster, Jessie Vihrog, Claire Fuchs-Kaufmann, Herta Worell, Charlotte Ander, Maly Delschaft, Edit Linn, Trude von Molo, Verna Hillie, Luise Ullrich, Anna Sten, Alice Faye, Charlotte Susa, Ann Dvorak, Inge List, Vilma Banky, Sally Eilers, Kay Francis, Irene Bentley, Loretta Young, Marian Nixon, Virginia Bruce, Clara Lou Sheridan, Maureen O'Sullivan, Jean Parker, Madeleine Ozeray, Leopoldine Konstantin, Una Merkel, Lola Chlud, Elfriede Jerra, Trude Haefelin, Else von Collani, Paula Wessely, Paula Wessely, Emmy Sonnemann, Ilse Stobrawa, Elga Brink, Ruth Eweler, Eran Morena, Leni Riefenstahl, Karina Bell, Lieselott Schaak, Liliane Dietz, Käthe Haack, Etta Klingenberg, Cilly Feindt, Edith Michaelis, Mulino von Kluck, Alexa von Poremski, Cilly Aussem, Maxi Herber, Brunhilde Vogel, Marielouise Horn, Christl Cranz, Ellen Braumuller, Irmgard Rost, Olga Jordan, Peggy Scriven, Elli Beinhorn, Ethel Catherwood, Rose Itier, Lilli Andersen, Kerstin Isberg, Hanni Kohler-von Skal, Hilde von Zobeltitz, Carmen Soriano, Helen Wills-Moody, Georgia Colemann, Claire Dennis, Eileen Bennett, Eleanor Holm, Cara von Psarska, Lisa Resch, Grete Haublein, Dorothy Poynton, Sonja Henie, Else Jacobsen, Margot Kuhl, Willie den Ouden, Gerda Pirch, Inge Grahn, Ilse Steinhoff, Hanna Reitsch, Maria von Ende-Pflugner, Nina von P., Ingeborg Sjokvist, Gert S., Marie Luise Herting, Annemarie S., Ulla von Henning, Katja M., Susanne von Hippel, Gertrud O., Marion P., Liselotte de Boy, Trude Lieske, Ruth Pera, Ruth Weyher, Inez Koebner, Trude Berliner, Greta Nissen, Gertrude Michael, Baba von Berczik, Fou Fou Surel, Rose Barsony, Ann Harding, Ruth Hagemann, Hertha Schieche, Hedwig Weib, Natja Latka, Ruth Engelhardt, Gisela Mauermeyer, Helen Madison, Ruth Halbsguth, Myriam H., Grit Montherlo, Dorothy Dell, Marguerite Churchill, Mary Blackwood, Susanne Reach, Leah von Ray, Ilona Stolz, Inez Guthorlein, Margot Holler, Lita tom Moehlen, Friedl Koerner, Francis B., Jutta von Bremin, Dorit Nitykowski, Gerda von der Osten, Margit Edler, Daisy Lorrand, Anni von Wittekind, Rose Rauch, Amelie von Alvensleben, Grit van Elben, Ilse Kante, Veronika von Brandenstein, Ursula von Gaarden, Maria von Tasnady, Kiri von Bibikow, Nya de Roma, Vera Voronina, Thea von Harbou, Eva von Reichenbach.


 * de:Garbaty Cigarettenfabrik : Berühmte Tänzerinnen. Sammelalbum der Firma Garbaty-Cigarettenfabrik, Berlin-Pankow und deren Marke GOLD-SABA (250 Bilder), Berlin, Selbstverlag, o.J (um 1930). Geschichte des Tanzes in 5 Kapiteln. Bilder von Fanny Eissler, Saharet, Anna Pawlowa, Tilly Losch, Erna Sydow, Isidora Duncan, Valeska Gert, Gret Palucca, Niddy Impekoven, Mary Wigman u.v.a.


 * Tänzerinnen der Gegenwart (= Schaubücher 18). 65 Bilder erläutert von Fred Hildenbrandt. Zürich, Orell & Füssli, 1931. Photographien u.a. von Josephine Baker, Mary Wigman, Anna Pawlowa, Valeska Gert, La Jana, Claire Bauroff, La Argentina, Lucy Kieselhausen, Grete Wiesenthal, Niddy Impekoven, Hertha Feist, Gret Palucca mit kurzen Kommentaren.

Greetings Mutter Erde 08:48, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

List of actors from Germany
Due to an Afd, List of actors from Germany has been deleted. John Vandenberg 03:03, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

copy-and-paste
someone copy-and-pasted this back into mainspace, see this diff -- 65.94.76.126 (talk) 16:27, 1 May 2013 (UTC)